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Archive 2008 · She sold image for $1.60 and is now complaining!

  
 
Jorgen Udvang
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p.2 #1 · She sold image for $1.60 and is now complaining!


Of course there's a difference. My guess is that on world basis, there are less than 500 who can make a living from MS, and less than 100 who can make a comfortable living from it. This is also like in most other industries. There's only really space for those who are willing to look at this as industry more than art.

Doing high end stock photography, be it commercial or editorial, is much more rewarding, and what most stock photographers would like to do, but not everybody have the skills or even inclination to do that. They're simply happy to stay in their studio, making yet another 100 images of the daughter of their neighbour and sell as many copies as possible, for whatever price they can obtain.

It's not art, and it only generates a limited amount of income for most, but it's happening, and it's taking over the low end of the market. If it's done in the right way, it generates some profit, and it certainly opens up some new markets for photography. The real losers are those who generate high end photography and sells it in that same market. That's a waste,



Jul 19, 2008 at 09:00 PM
Sheila
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p.2 #2 · She sold image for $1.60 and is now complaining!


Its not just "micro" stocks which are selling images on the cheap. I was recently contacted by a photographer inviting me to join his site.

http://www.affordable-stock-photography.com/

I replied that I don't sell RF images and I certainly won't contribute to microsites. He responded and was rather indignant that I should think that his site was an MS site. I quote "Can I ask you what it is about my site that makes you think it is a micro stock site. Low res images selling for an average of $24usd.". He seemed to think that selling images at between $8 and $36 did not make his site a micro. Near as dammit I say!

Cheers
Sheila



Jul 20, 2008 at 07:31 PM
Jorgen Udvang
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p.2 #3 · She sold image for $1.60 and is now complaining!


Sheila wrote:
He seemed to think that selling images at between $8 and $36 did not make his site a micro. Near as dammit I say!


If he's selling unlimited RF licenses for those prices, he's actually cheaper than most micros.



Jul 21, 2008 at 11:29 AM
annayu
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p.2 #4 · She sold image for $1.60 and is now complaining!


Sheila wrote:
Its not just "micro" stocks which are selling images on the cheap. I was recently contacted by a photographer inviting me to join his site.

http://www.affordable-stock-photography.com/

I replied that I don't sell RF images and I certainly won't contribute to microsites. He responded and was rather indignant that I should think that his site was an MS site. I quote "Can I ask you what it is about my site that makes you think it is a micro stock site. Low res images selling for an average of $24usd.". He seemed to think that selling images at between $8 and $36
...Show more

Just curious, how much stock income did you make per month over the last 3 years on the average, Sheila?



Jul 21, 2008 at 02:17 PM
onebear
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p.2 #5 · She sold image for $1.60 and is now complaining!


This makes an interesting business proposition... Why spend all those hours chasing the light, when you can just go ahead and "fill" up from these MS sites.

As an example: This particular project I´m working on has taken me 3 months(and counting), and have gotten me real close to a family of Red Foxes in North Norway, setting up specific areas to feed them regularly, hoping to get some even more spectacular wintery scenes shots, this coming winter. Considering the payoff and competition from MS sites, why even bother. I would not even be close to break even, considering; time, effort, write off, insurance, etc, etc.

There is a definite need for the MS sites, and they are here to stay. Pictures are not worth much these days, everybody can take pictures, with increasingly good affordable cameras. But except for the degrading value of good pictures, any competition is good. It makes us evolve as artists, and makes us work harder.

From each and every shoot I do, I get thousands of OK shots, a good deal of Great shots, and some Awesome shot.. Normally during the editing, I would delete the OK shots, as well as a great deal of the Great shots, rendering them useless as assets. In essence, any income they would bring is gone forever. Perhaps sending these "lower rated" shots to the MS sites, would bring in some "bonus" cash. The remaining shots would be used as income generating assets, and would be supplied thru your regular channels..

So what about your "image" as a photographer, and the goodwill or reputation you´re trying to build up thru your portfolio. Would that suffer if you put out sub-par images thru the MS sites Maybe we need to use aliases?

Which outlet will be the stronger long term, will photography as a proffession survive, or will we all have to rely on government grants, subsidies, or second jobs, to take up non-commercialized projects..



Edited on Jul 25, 2008 at 11:37 AM



Jul 25, 2008 at 11:35 AM
calvillo
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p.2 #6 · She sold image for $1.60 and is now complaining!


annayu wrote:
Just curious, how much stock income did you make per month over the last 3 years on the average, Sheila?


Hopefully your point isn't that you made a lot of money undermining the industry.



Jul 25, 2008 at 06:06 PM
Jorgen Udvang
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p.2 #7 · She sold image for $1.60 and is now complaining!


calvillo wrote:
Hopefully your point isn't that you made a lot of money undermining the industry.


That is labour union speak. Much more than some photographers "undermining" the industry, the falling prices of photography are a result of two new technologies: internet and digital cameras. I can hear the echo from the sound of the typographers of the sixties and seventies. The big difference is that they had the power to halt newspaper production. Photographers hold no such powers.

I'm afraid this is a question of "adapt or die" for many. Those photographers who are really outstanding, will still be able to charge premium prices for their work. The rest of us will have to take whatever the market gives. It may sound unfair, and it may reduce the income for some, but it's reality.

New technologies have opened up some huge new markets for photographers as well. Don't forget that 20 years ago, nobody bought photos for use on the internet, simply because it didn't exist, at least not in its current form. Now, there are millions of web photos out there, but nobody would pay a dime for that kind of usage if they had to pay more than.... well, a dollar.

It's important to remember also, that the competition, very much because of the above mentioned technologies, is now coming from all over the world, including countries with a cost level way below that of North America and Western Europe. A normal salary here in Thailand is less than 20% of that in the west, and there's a similar situation in most Asian and many Eastern European countries. But even against that competition, there are photographers in the west who have taken the challenge and do make a healthy profit, even with prices that are a fraction of what they used to be, probably because they are smart or skilled, or maybe both.

So here's the choice: get smart or keep on whining.

Edited on Jul 26, 2008 at 10:09 PM



Jul 26, 2008 at 10:04 PM
calvillo
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p.2 #8 · She sold image for $1.60 and is now complaining!


It's funny some think undervaluing their work is smart!


Jul 26, 2008 at 10:20 PM
Pavel
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p.2 #9 · She sold image for $1.60 and is now complaining!


second that.

and they seem to like the tone of their own important voices. dumb schmucks.



Jul 26, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Jorgen Udvang
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p.2 #10 · She sold image for $1.60 and is now complaining!


If I was an artist, I would care about the value about my work, but I try to make a living from this, so I care more about the profit. I currently do traditional stock as well as micro. If I had to choose one, I'm afraid I would have to choose the one that pays my rent, my food and my cameras. If that is called undervaluing my work, so be it.

If I become a better, more clever photographer in the future, that may change, but at the moment, I'm not clever enough.

A few additions to all this: I'm not particularly fond of selling images cheap, and I disagree strongly with the policies of some microstock agencies (20% commissions, subscriptions etc.). However, that doesn't change the realities:

- The micros are here to stay
- They are taking over certain parts of the stock photo market
- They have opened up new markets, markets that would never pay hundreds of dollars for a photo anyway
- Microstock represent an excellent profit possibility for a lot of photographers
- Most photographers who do microstock have never even tried traditional stock, and they couldn't care less if the old marketplace is undermined
- Most of those who do sell through traditional stock agencies as well as micro agencies, make a much better profit (dollars per image per year) from the micros than from the traditional ones

When a publisher publishes a book, the photos in that book live for years, and for x number of reprints. Now, a photo on the internet lives for a couple of months, weeks and sometimes only for a few hours. For that kind of usage, expecting the same pay per photo as 20 years ago is naive. The money isn't there and/or the buyers aren't willing to pay.

You can of course always start negotiating, and tell the website owner that he should buy your photo for 400 dollars instead of some p&s maniac's photo for 10 bucks, but before you have even started negotiating, he is in another place, looking for another photo, and the guy with the p&s has added 2 or 3 or 5 dollars to his stack of silver coins. while you get nothing.

There are obviously lots of exceptions to the rule, and babies being thrown out with the water, like a recent front page of Time, that contained a manipulated version of a microstock photo. Not only did the photographer get a minimal pay, but he wasn't even credited. Bad, bad, bad.

At the current rate, a couple of hundred thousand images are added to the microstock agencies every week. And here we are, discussing if it's good for business or not. I don't think it helps.

Edited on Jul 27, 2008 at 12:47 AM



Jul 26, 2008 at 11:00 PM
JonStafford
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p.2 #11 · She sold image for $1.60 and is now complaining!


calvillo wrote:
It's funny some think undervaluing their work is smart!


I've always been under the impression that the value of your work is limited by what someone is willing to pay for it.



Jul 28, 2008 at 03:19 AM
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