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Archive 2008 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter

  
 
wayne seltzer
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


I recently bought a HappypageHK Nikon-Eos adapter to use with my new Zeiss 35mm 2.0 ZF lens on my 1Ds3. Well, I might have to send it back because although the adapter once put on the lens does not fit properly in the lens mount on the camera. I think it may be the 1-series pin which is sticking out from the adapter. I have one of Mark Welsh's special Nikon-Eos adapters which works fine. It has a 1-series pin also but it fits ok and the lens has no play and is well connected to the camera. I also have a Fotodiox non-pro adapter which doesn't have the 1-series pin and it works fine with the lens and the camera but doesn't have the focus confirm chip and the exif data.
I can get the HappypageHK adapter to only go on the camera by rotating the adapter counterclockwise some from its proper final locked location on the lens and then finagle(sp) the whole adapter and lens to mount properly on the camera.
Even when I get it on the camera and locked into position, there is quite a bit of play between the lens and the camera.
I have tried this adapter on my 5D and 1D2n and have the same problem.

Has anyone had any problems with this adapter?. Maybe Rudolph has changed base adapters lately?
My options are to either send it back or try to remove the 1-series pin which Mark's says is only needed for compability with older 1-series camera's but not the new 1Ds3.

Also, I prefer the higher quality adapters like Mark's which are black, and not shiny metal and have the ridges on the outer-rim of the adapter. The HappypageHk adapter is the cheaper shiny metal adapter simialar to the FotoDiox non-pro version adapter I have.
I am wondering if I could buy a FotoDiox Pro adapter and have Rudolph put on the AF confirm chip for me. Anyone know if he would do this?

If someone has a HappypageHK adapter which works with a zeiss ZF lens on a Canon camera can you pls. upload a picture of the adapter so I could compare it with mine?






Jun 18, 2008 at 12:27 PM
jonboring
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


HappypageHK will chip your adapter, he's done all of mine. Also, he will replace the adapter if you just contact him. On eBay, with those prices, you have to expect QC to be low. Rudolf however is great to do business with and will make sure you get an adapter that works.


Jun 18, 2008 at 12:59 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


Which adapter did you have him chip?


Jun 18, 2008 at 01:42 PM
cyberstudio
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


Is it true that black is of higher quality than "cheap" shiny metal? How come genuine Canon lenses all come with shiny mounts (if the mount is made of metal)?

As a mount supplier myself, I am sometimes torn with providing customers with high quality mounts, versus mounts which customers perceive to be high quality. I guess I will continue to ship shiny "cheap" mounts to my customers, and I am certain Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax, Olympus will all do the same.

Note: the Fotodiox "Pro" adapter is more expensive than their consumer grade adapter because it is more expensive to make, not because of its color.

Edited on Jun 18, 2008 at 03:15 PM



Jun 18, 2008 at 03:05 PM
ward1066
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


I have his adapter on the 50mm f2 zf, if it is loose you might try and spread the metal spacers to get it a little more snug fit against the lens. Check out John Black's page on adapters here http://www.pebbleplace.com/Personal/Contax_db_Adapters_1.html


I have found happypagehk adapters of good quality for the price.

Edited on Jun 18, 2008 at 05:17 PM



Jun 18, 2008 at 05:14 PM
David Clapp
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


I am left just as confused as is everyone I have spoken to. Some have spent money on suposed good quality adapters, other on Ebay cheapos, myself included. I cant get my head around it, I have three Contax lenses, two cheapos adapters and one HAODA. My friend who has lots of Contax lenses said to me at the start,"The adapters will all vary, you just have to purchase a load and some will work some wont. The expensive ones are no better than the cheap"

My mix and match approach now has all the adapters working with the lenses. None except one extra thick cheap adapter shimmed with electrical tape work with my 28mm f2 and now it focuses at infinity where it should. The Haoda is the worst of the three on this lens in particular, a difficult lens to fit adapt to my 5D agreed, but it works the perfectly on my 28-85 so I am very happy. Another shimmed cheap Ebay adapter works perfectly with the CZ35-70 I just bought, the HAODA focuses past infinity, so the 1.42mm thickness of this well machined adapter still doesnt deliver with this lens. You just have to rely on home modification.

So why does the Haoda work perfectly well on one lens and not on the other two? Is the problem with the Contax lenses variation? I have no idea.(I am not talking about mirror problems here, just infinity focus)

As with the crapshoot thread that ran this week, I think its just luck and modifying the adapter to suit the lens which all require different thicknesses. All three now focus at infinity spot on, but its taken hours of testing to all the adapters to get this right, not down to some expensive adapter..

I have a Happypage one on the way as well, so I am interested to see if this adapter performs with the same results as the Haoda. At least two adapters may wel be consistant with each other, something I havent seen yet!


Edited on Jun 18, 2008 at 06:18 PM



Jun 18, 2008 at 05:57 PM
jonboring
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


Son Minh Pham did extensive research several years ago on Contax lenses and adapter thickness. He found that different Contax lenses required different thickness to achieve infinity focus and optimal IQ. Son ended up making a series of lenses of different thickness , I believe there were 3 different ones altogether. The adapters were made under extreme tolerances and cost a fortune to make. I was lucky enough to purchase 5-6 of them at the different thicknesses. Rudolf (happypageHK) chipped them all for me.

Despite all this, sometimes cheaper adapters of different thicknesses work just as well on some bodies. We have concluded the body tolerances are causing all this.



Jun 18, 2008 at 06:40 PM
ward1066
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


I have a Haoda for my 100 CZ and it focuses past infinity also. All my HPHK adapters are spot on.


Jun 18, 2008 at 06:42 PM
StevenPA
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


jonboring wrote:
The adapters were made under extreme tolerances and cost a fortune to make. I was lucky enough to purchase 5-6 of them at the different thicknesses.


I have one of Son's WD adapters. I bought it specifically for use on a 1Ds and now 5D with the 21/2.8, the lens it was presumably tuned for. It was way too thin. It was way too tight. You should have seen me cursing to get the thing off the lens. Talk about sore fingers! Something was definitely "extreme" about the adapter... Maybe I got a dud.

Edited on Jun 18, 2008 at 08:22 PM



Jun 18, 2008 at 08:19 PM
montespluga
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


ward

thanks for the link to John Black's page.
Actually I need a adapter for the Distagon 25 AE to 1 Ds-2, but HappypageHK hasn't some on ebay, right now. Did he gave up on the YCZ to EOS?

One of his earliest YCZ to EOS-adapter (the serie whithout the AF-enabling-pin, though) works fine on the distagon 28. It's ok with the distagon 25, but that lens isn't fixed tight enough to the adapter.



Jun 19, 2008 at 06:15 AM
jonboring
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


There is a special tool for getting it off. If you use the tool, it is easy :-)

No, I don't think you got a dud, just the body tolerances.



Jun 19, 2008 at 09:59 AM
David Clapp
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


jonboring wrote:
Son Minh Pham did extensive research several years ago on Contax lenses and adapter thickness. He found that different Contax lenses required different thickness to achieve infinity focus and optimal IQ. Son ended up making a series of lenses of different thickness , I believe there were 3 different ones altogether.


What I dont get is this.... if different contax lenses need different thickness adapters to postion the image plane correctly why dont Contax cameras using the Contax lens system suffer the same problems with infinity focus etc?

OK if the tolerances and QC of different cameras are causing the issues then fair enough, but why do research into making adapters of particular thicknesses for specific lenses? This must surely constitute a variation in the position of the image plane for different lenses whether adapted to another camera body or or not?

Can someone explain...

Edited on Jun 19, 2008 at 10:11 AM



Jun 19, 2008 at 10:06 AM
montespluga
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


jonboring wrote:
There is a special tool for getting it off. If you use the tool, it is easy :-)

No, I don't think you got a dud, just the body tolerances.


Jon, that lever with the 2 screws is in the correct position, but the 25 mm can be moved very slightly sidewards, but the 28 mm nothing at all.

It's not a body question, here.

Edited on Jun 19, 2008 at 12:12 PM



Jun 19, 2008 at 12:12 PM
jonboring
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


Unfortunately, I do not understand all the math and theory behind all of this. We had some members here in this forum a couple of years ago who were the experts but they only check in now and again these days.

The adapters Son did were, if I remember correctly, 1.2mm (for the 15mm Zeiss), 1.3mm (for the 21 and also the 35-70), and 1.4 (for everything else). Remember the differences here in thicknesses are 10th of a mm which is human hair thickness - very fine. My King would work fine in the landscape position but hung on the mirror in portrait mode. That is how close these tolerances are ... the different swing pattern of the mirror effected things.

My guess is, the wides needed a little more thinness because they were more sensitive to suboptimal flange distances as a result of the body variances. I am guessing the Canon bodies variances tend to the long end of the correct flange distance, rather than the short. So, if you have a body dead on, you can use any old 1.4 adapter. If you have an odd ball that is short, the thicker 1.5mm adapters work for you. The long bodies, require the thinner ones. Also, remember the bodies expand and contract with heat/cold, so depending on where you live and where you are shooting, can effect the results.

However, that is just an uneducated guess by someone who doesn't really understand the theory of how all this works. So, take this for what it is worth!



Jun 19, 2008 at 12:26 PM
jonboring
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


montespluga - o was referring to Steven's adapter from Son, not the happypageHK adapter


Jun 19, 2008 at 12:28 PM
David Clapp
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


Well done for that Jon, that helps a bit!


Jun 19, 2008 at 01:21 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


Ward,
Does your HappyPageHK adapter have the 1-series AF enabling pin?
Can you upload a picture of the adapter so I can compare it to mine?
How long ago did you buy it?
My issue with this adapter is not infinity focus, but something more basic, that
the lens with the adapter locked into place does not fit into the camera mount properly.
I am guessing that it is something to do with the AF pin sticking out too far or something.
I can't get the lens with adapter flush with the camera mount without unlocking the lens from the
adapter and rotating it slightly and then fiddling around till I can get it flush with the mount.
I wonder if it is a new base adapter he is using that is different than before.
I am thinking about cutting off the AF pin since it is not needed on new 1DS3 and 5D.

Also, to answer Cyberstudio about the adapter finish quality, it is not just the black finish but also the ridges on the outer rim of the adapter which make it easier to grab and rotate the adapter onto the lens. The shiny metal adapter rims without ridges are more of a PITA to get off the lens if the fit is tight.



Jun 19, 2008 at 01:30 PM
Pham Minh Son
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


Adapters has been a major ground for all of us to break through in the digital age; just look at the mess with the latest Nikon adapters to Canon. In the film day the information simply is not there for us to notice any problem with our lens or camera system. When we print large it is only then do we know if our combination of optics and camera is good enough. Furthermore, a Contax lens sit on a Contax body and not a Contax lens mounting on a Canon body. Ok enough of the introduction.

Point 1: If you use theoretical value to make the adapters you will likely not get the results you are looking for in your alternative lens. For example take the flange distance differences (45.5-44.0) and you should be making adapters thickness at 1.5mm. However adapter with 1.5mm thickness your probability of getting infinity focus and chromatic aberration control are low.

Point 2: Contax Lens on the Canon DSLR body can vary with optimal adapter thickness from 1.2 to 1.5 mm with the 1.4 mm being the highest proability.

Point 3: Super Wide angle lens tendency to require thinner adapter. For example the Contax Distagon T* 3.5/15 is the most difficult lens to get to infinity focus. The reason for wide angle lens to protrude so much into the mirror box is due to the optimization of super wide angle lens. For example, the Range Finder (RF) lens will sit very close to the film plane and thus reduces distortion. However, the strongest strength can become the weakness in another system; in film day RF lens are great but in digital age the acute angle hitting the digital sensor is not so great.

Point 4: Floating element lens vs non floating element lens: You can readjust your lens to focus to your camera sensor with the non floating element lens. Please do not touch the floating element lens instead use shimming technique described buy our great FMer John Luke to optimized your lens.

Point 5: Manufactory Control is poor in making adapters and the nature of competition for low price you get a lot of adapters vary in thickness and loose play mounting on the lens and to the camera. Originally, the adapters were too thick and I told these manufactories but they did not listen so I made 3 adapter thicknesses to accommodate the differences in lens optimization. Now you see that a lot of the ebayer adapters advertising the infinity focus in their adds. They do come in here and find that their adapters do require thinner to meet infinity focus. Thus, the more we learn today the better we are off tomorrow. It is better to be too thin than too thick. Thinner adapter can actually increase your wide angle depth of field and thicker adapters will create lots of chromatic aberration (CA). With proper shimming on the thinner adapter one will get better results. For example, the Contax Carl Zeiss Planar T* 1.2/85th 50/60th Jahres I was able to get the highest CA attenuation than any other Canon fast lens.

Point 6: Different Contax lens require different mount diamter size and thickness to fit tight without loose play. Thus, explain why my adapters are made very tight fit to accomodate the differences in these lens which has not been discussed before.

Point 7: I agree with CyberStudio; the chromated adapters are much more smoother to mount and dismount than the aluminum with anodized to black color.

I am sure there are a few more points that I can make but this is enough for now.

Best Regards,
-Son




Edited on Jun 20, 2008 at 10:53 AM



Jun 20, 2008 at 10:50 AM
ward1066
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


unfortunately, My camera and 50mm ZF took a fall to the concrete last weekend. Luckily my hood absorbed most of the impact. My adapter was ruined also. The locking pin was sheared off and I couldn't remove it from the lens without some major surgery. I have another adapter on order and will get it in a few days. The one I had was only a couple of weeks old. I know what you are saying about the difficulty mounting it to the camera, I found if I angle the bottom of the lens in first it is easier.
http://www.pbase.com/wade_abbey/image/98951745/original.jpg

pic of my hood here
http://www.phonezap.com/ward1066



Jun 20, 2008 at 11:31 AM
brainiac
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Not so Happy Nikon-Eos adapter


I don't believe that Contax tolerances were as bad as a tenth of a millimetre.

I do believe that there is an optimal adaptor thickness that is correct for all correctly calibrated CY lenses, whether it be 1.38mm or 1.42mm. However, that assumes that lens and adaptor will be mounted on a zero tolerance Canon body. In real life it seems Canon mount-to-sensor lengths can vary too, so the right adaptor thickness will probably depend as much on the Canon body as on the wear/calibration of the lens mount. Adaptors loosen up with use, and lens and body mounts also wear down. Contax lenses can also become miscalibrated with age/use, which is why Zeiss recommends they are sent in for a regular service. With all respect to Son, I don't see how he can have insulated his results from the vagaries of these factors, unless he used a large sample of EOS bodies in each model, and had all his lenses serviced by Zeiss before testing.

Lenses which have neither floating elements (CRC) nor internal focussing (IF) need only focus past infinity to deliver correct performance. Most CY lenses do not have CRC or IF. However, even CRC/IF lenses will produce very little or no disappointment when adaptor thickness errors are small.

A more serious issue is the adaptor's ability to hold the lens perfectly normal to the sensor plane. Poor corner performance is often just the result of a slanting field of focus. Many Zeiss lenses have a lug which protrudes far enough to touch the inside of the camera body. Apparently these helped to avoid lens droop with longer or heavier lenses. They often scrape the inside of EOS bodies and can be responsible for the lens sitting skew on the mount. All materials are elastic, and a heavy lens can deform the mount system by small but significant quanitites. Adaptors accentuate this problem as they double the number of physical interfaces. Results can vary depending on how you hold the lens/camera, or how the camera is oriented. It is almost impossible to tighten an adaptor evenly using the three tightening flanges, and most adaptors will focus on slightly different distances from one corner to another. Equally, like most Canon lenses, many CY lenses suffer from increasing CA as misfocus increases, as can be seen in green and pink fringes around blurred highlights.

What all this boils down to is that, with great respect to Son, I don't believe the situation is nearly as simple as his theory suggests, and I don't think one should aim for a non-standard adaptor thickness based on focal length. I think a better policy is to get your lenses serviced by Zeiss, get your bodies calibrated perfectly by Canon, start with a normal 1.42mm adaptor, or whatever your favourite supplier provides, test all corners using Liveview instead of trusting the manual focus system, and if you find results you don't expect, try your spare thinner and thicker adaptors to see if they help. If they do, don't assume it's because that lens model always needs that adaptor thickness.

Edited on Jun 21, 2008 at 07:15 AM



Jun 21, 2008 at 07:08 AM
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