Wow, EOS, great attitude about teenagers. Nice job, too, of lumping them all into the "attitude", "pimple-faced" or "snot-nosed" categories. Sheesh. I would guess you're either not a parent or your own kids were like you've described all others. Too bad you've evidently never seen the good side of teenagers...like those who volunteer to go to third-world countries over the summer, or who maintain straight A's or those who are leaders in their churches and schools. But enough of being a proud parent to two teenagers who don't have pimple faces or snotty noses.
The bottom line is, the OP gave away his images and they ended up being used in a yearbook. Hmm...let's see...that would mean an adult photographer gave the images to an adult coach, who then somehow got them to the teenagers on the yearbook staff. My guess is the teenagers on the YB staff are advised by an adult teacher who evidently hasn't taught the kids about use of images like this? Anyone else seeing a common thread here?
Maybe before we start tossing in the towel on teenagers and blatantly labeling them all as losers, we might be well served to take a good hard look in our mirrors before we walk out of the house each morning.
Scott Sewell wrote:
Wow, EOS, great attitude about teenagers. Nice job, too, of lumping them all into the "attitude", "pimple-faced" or "snot-nosed" categories. Sheesh. I would guess you're either not a parent or your own kids were like you've described all others. Too bad you've evidently never seen the good side of teenagers...like those who volunteer to go to third-world countries over the summer, or who maintain straight A's or those who are leaders in their churches and schools. But enough of being a proud parent to two teenagers who don't have pimple faces or snotty noses.
The bottom line is, the OP gave away his images and they ended up being used in a yearbook. Hmm...let's see...that would mean an adult photographer gave the images to an adult coach, who then somehow got them to the teenagers on the yearbook staff. My guess is the teenagers on the YB staff are advised by an adult teacher who evidently hasn't taught the kids about use of images like this? Anyone else seeing a common thread here?
Maybe before we start tossing in the towel on teenagers and blatantly labeling them all as losers, we might be well served to take a good hard look in our mirrors before we walk out of the house each morning. ...Show more →
Hmmm…
The purpose of this discussion is to provide some suggestions to help another photographer out of a dilemma. Several different lines of action have been offered. Clearly, some agree with one course, others favor a different approach. People have different opinions - that is the whole point of asking a question in a public forum.
Your “solution” however is to launch into a tirade, slinging personal insults at a fellow FM member and his family. That helps solve the problem…how…?
The purpose of this discussion is to provide some suggestions to help another photographer out of a dilemma. Several different lines of action have been offered. Clearly, some agree with one course, others favor a different approach. People have different opinions - that is the whole point of asking a question in a public forum.
Your “solution” however is to launch into a tirade, slinging personal insults at a fellow FM member and his family. That helps solve the problem…how…?
Who is it exactly that has “issues” here?
"If nothing else, a well worded cease-and-desist letter may teach these pimple-faced, snot-nosed kids a valuable lesson. This isn't a joke, life isn't a game - there are rules and laws, and consequences for wrong decisions. After all, isn't high school supposed to be about learning?"
Who's slinging the first insults here? I have to agree with Scott here. He shouldn't have insulted your family...but you're slinging insults at a whole generation. Geeez folks...it's a YEARBOOK!!..not Time magazine. Cease-and-desist?...it's a YEARBOOK!..Did anyone consider that the OP was complaining just to tell everyone that she got published? What's that old saying?...bragging or complaining? Would a photo credit help? Who looks at photo credits in a YEARBOOK? This is a Molehill-Mountain situation. I really would be surprised if any ill intent were involved. Everyone should calm down and do a reality check.
Think of it as a "teachable moment." The yearbook has an advisor, the advisor has an administrator. The yearbook also has a publisher. All of those people are supposed to be professsionals, some hold advanced degres and certificates.
Let's start with the publishers. They should be providing guidance to the staff and advisor about what is and isn't acceptable practice when it comes to getting material for the yearbook. I wouldn't hesitate to send them a letter. They should be wary of unauthorized use of copyrighted material and even if most schools are unsophisticated or most "parent" sources aren't savvy, that's no excuse for them not to use due diligence. Few, if any, photographers would give a pass to various retailers, processors, printers, etc., when they copy "professional" material without authorization. I doubt you will get a real satisfying answer but if you then spread around the name of the slack publisher (to professional photographic asociations, etc.), it might be a part of a trail that does eventually create a pattern of abuses.
Teachers and administrators are aware of copyright laws, if not, they should be. Schools have gotten into trouble from use of copyrighted videos, for copying music, for making clasroom sets or materials not approved for that kind of distribution or use. Texts and other supplementary materials are almost always marked as to their copyright status and if copying is authorized.
It's not always completely cut and dried. "Educational" use is one of the factors in determining "fair use." But I'd agree that use in a yearbook is probably not going to pass the fair use tests.
The problem you and the staff have is that they got the images from a third party, one who is not necessarily likely to have been aware of the issues. If the staff (and advisor) wasn't checking and asking for some kind of clearance when accepting submittals, they may have some blame in this. But while that might be "best practices" in a real publishing concern, it's probably not anything like the madhouse that goes into putting together many yearbooks.
And the images were passed to the coach without any kind of guidance as to the kinds of usages. While there is a rather well known source for "business advice" who suggests (IMO wrongly) that one need not give written guidance nor use contracts when passing on images, due to the potential for causing confusion and creating a legal mess because of what was written, much, if not all of this could have been avoided if you had acutally advised the coach as to what would or would not be acceptable uses.
So yes, there are some things you can do. Contact the school. I doubt they want to be in a position where the yearbook staff is not familiar with copyright issues. But take it to them as an opportunity to learn something and don't treat as a huge world ending event.
Craig Gillette wrote:
Think of it as a "teachable moment." The yearbook has an advisor, the advisor has an administrator. The yearbook also has a publisher. All of those people are supposed to be professsionals, some hold advanced degres and certificates.
Let's start with the publishers. They should be providing guidance to the staff and advisor about what is and isn't acceptable practice when it comes to getting material for the yearbook. I wouldn't hesitate to send them a letter. They should be wary of unauthorized use of copyrighted material and even if most schools are unsophisticated or most "parent" sources aren't savvy, that's no excuse for them not to use due diligence. Few, if any, photographers would give a pass to various retailers, processors, printers, etc., when they copy "professional" material without authorization. I doubt you will get a real satisfying answer but if you then spread around the name of the slack publisher (to professional photographic asociations, etc.), it might be a part of a trail that does eventually create a pattern of abuses.
Teachers and administrators are aware of copyright laws, if not, they should be. Schools have gotten into trouble from use of copyrighted videos, for copying music, for making clasroom sets or materials not approved for that kind of distribution or use. Texts and other supplementary materials are almost always marked as to their copyright status and if copying is authorized.
It's not always completely cut and dried. "Educational" use is one of the factors in determining "fair use." But I'd agree that use in a yearbook is probably not going to pass the fair use tests.
The problem you and the staff have is that they got the images from a third party, one who is not necessarily likely to have been aware of the issues. If the staff (and advisor) wasn't checking and asking for some kind of clearance when accepting submittals, they may have some blame in this. But while that might be "best practices" in a real publishing concern, it's probably not anything like the madhouse that goes into putting together many yearbooks.
And the images were passed to the coach without any kind of guidance as to the kinds of usages. While there is a rather well known source for "business advice" who suggests (IMO wrongly) that one need not give written guidance nor use contracts when passing on images, due to the potential for causing confusion and creating a legal mess because of what was written, much, if not all of this could have been avoided if you had acutally advised the coach as to what would or would not be acceptable uses.
So yes, there are some things you can do. Contact the school. I doubt they want to be in a position where the yearbook staff is not familiar with copyright issues. But take it to them as an opportunity to learn something and don't treat as a huge world ending event. ...Show more →
I'd take this molehill to the Supreme Court!!! You're right, these people should be taught a lesson. If we used waterboarding in these cases...there would be a lot less infringement.
Bring back hanging in all states, that's what I say ...
rhyder wrote:
I'd take this molehill to the Supreme Court!!! You're right, these people should be taught a lesson. If we used waterboarding in these cases...there would be a lot less infringement.
Sheesh. I would guess you're either not a parent or your own kids were like you've described all others. 
