Thanks rbranan, yes I am old, perhaps I should have said Ian Thorpe!
Tony Masone, thanks for your comments, it's a first post on the Sports forum but I'm beginning to understand the way things work in here.
Tony Brown, there's nothing wrong with being defensive it's when folk are offensive that I have a problem and since no one here has been offensive, I don't have a problem. Thanks for looking nonetheless.
P Alesse, you're right about my intention for this shot and you've nailed how it was shot. The flash wasn't bounced, sorry it doesn't quite work for you.
liamh wrote:
Mmm, I think the reverse is true. You guys are looking for things that are not there. They are not there because they are not meant to be.
No I didn't. Perhaps that is where the confusion is coming from. I thought swimming was a sport, but as this picture is not from a 'meet' it may not conform to what you guys consider a sport picture. This is a simple shot of boy fighting his way through the water as much as he is swimming through it.
I agree. Perhaps we're all looking for what we're all used to seeing in a swimming picture. However, as you stated, this *isn't* from a swim meet - so those things weren't there. I'm fairly certain you're exactly right - we're assuming the picture is from a competition. I was, anyway.
Scott Sewell wrote:
I'd say if he swims "like a man drowning", you've nailed this shot!
Looks like I should have kept my original post in this thread to those two simple sentences. I assumed that since this was on the Sports Corner offering C&C (as the OP specifically asked for) that related to sports photography was okay. As is often the case, “assuming” anything is usually a bad idea.
IMO the kid literally looks like he's drowning. This could easily be on the front page of a newspaper somewhere with a caption, "John E. Smith, 9, struggles for air as he nearly drowns Tuesday afternoon in the Roselawn Swimming Pool. After retrieving Smith from the bottom of the pool, paramedics and rescue workers performed CPR on Smith for nearly 30 minutes before successful reviving him." If that were the case, I'd say this is a great shot...it really shows that the kid is struggling to stay afloat and making every effort to make what might be his last breath. However, as a sports photo, it doesn’t work for me.
I've got tough skin, so if someone doesn't like my reaction, suggestions or "take" on an image, I'm fine with that. Life would be awfully boring if we all agreed on everything. But it seems interesting that someone specifically says, "C&C welcome, no need to hold back” then reacts as we’ve seen in this thread. I guarantee I’m not headed over to the People Forum to creat a thread, ask for C&C, then argue with those who might take time out of their day to offer such. I really don't care if someone doesn't agree with my C&C, but it would be nice to know it could be made without having to worry about someone wanting to argue about it. Based on my experience and perspective, I offered my opinion. Simple as that.
Scott, I don't know if you've read this entire thread, so I'll say it again; I have no problem with any of the C&Cs. None whatsoever - that's not to say I either have to agree with it or shouldn't explain myself further than in the original post.
I'm sorry that you think I was arguing with you, my initial response to your post was simply bemusement that you didn't understand the context of the image when I thought I had given you all of the context.
I can see from the responses that whilst you wrongly assumed things about the picture I wrongly assumed the type of picture that is considered 'Sports' on this forum.
This is a simple shot of boy swimming. When you watch him he looks like he'll sink at any moment, each stroke looks like it will be his last and yet somehow he manages to get to the other end. That's what I set out to capture. I'm sorry it doesn't measure up to your standards. But I'm cool with that
I have to agree, you asked for C&C and you got it. Kind of a cool shot though. I have agree there is nothing to indicate schwimming (or racing)here You have received some constructive ideas here, and that is what you requested. Keep shooting and keep posting. Exposure looks pretty good to me too.
twistedlim wrote:
I have to agree, you asked for C&C and you got it. Kind of a cool shot though. I have agree there is nothing to indicate schwimming (or racing)here You have received some constructive ideas here, and that is what you requested. Keep shooting and keep posting. Exposure looks pretty good to me too.
Thanks for stopping by twistedlim,
The C&Cs have given me a great insight into how things work in this forum and to peoples' expectations of a 'sports' shot.
Leave the People mentality in that forum Liam, posters in this forum are very helpful and are not really argumentative and there's no way that Scott was slamming you. The kid does look like he's drowning though and to be honest although it's a cool looking shot it is also a bit scary as well.
Post some shots of him with his arms working so viewers will know what he's doing.
I said earlier in this thread that I assumed because it is a shot of a boy swimming that it qualifies as a 'sports' shot. I now see and understand that is not the case, that's what I mean by learning how this forum works.
I also think that this misunderstanding is the cause of much of the comment on this thread as it is a staged water 'portrait' rather than a 'sports' shot. This is something I recognize now, but only because of peoples responses on this thread.
I thought I gave all the context required, "swims like he's drowning", clearly that was not enough for some. As for being defensive, again I've explained that earlier in the thread and have nothing more to add other than repeat that I have no problem whatsoever with the C&Cs regarding the shot.
John P Mulgrew wrote:
Leave the People mentality in that forum Liam, posters in this forum are very helpful and are not really argumentative and there's no way that Scott was slamming you. The kid does look like he's drowning though and to be honest although it's a cool looking shot it is also a bit scary as well.
Post some shots of him with his arms working so viewers will know what he's doing.
Hi John,
Nowhere have I said that Scott was slamming me only that I was bemused that he didn't understand the simple context of the picture. I now understand why that was the case.
For me the strength of the shot is the ambiguity and showing more details like arms or poolside would lessen the impact of the shot and simply render it a shot of a kid who can't swim very well.
theved wrote:
For somebody asking for C&C, you sure seem not to take C very well.
Now since there is no need to hold back, I would have deleted this shot either while chimping, or later in Bridge. I'm not trying to be offensive, but that's my honest opinion.
However, what looks good in my eyes, may not look good in yours and vice versa.
Best of luck.
Thanks for stopping by theved,
Very constructive comments you make there. I look forward to seeing what looks good in your eyes
[For me the strength of the shot is the ambiguity and showing more details like arms or poolside would lessen the impact of the shot and simply render it a shot of a kid who can't swim very well.]
Liam, I don't think it belongs in here then because it really has nothing to do with sports. Now even if the little guy was having a problem with swimming and you posted a full shot of him then that would be more on topic, yours is OT.
You're a bit confrontational as well here and that's something we normally do not see in this forum either, leave it in the People forum Liam. You'll find the 2 forums are worlds apart when it comes to interaction by posters.
John P Mulgrew wrote:
[For me the strength of the shot is the ambiguity and showing more details like arms or poolside would lessen the impact of the shot and simply render it a shot of a kid who can't swim very well.]
Liam, I don't think it belongs in here then because it really has nothing to do with sports. Now even if the little guy was having a problem with swimming and you posted a full shot of him then that would be more on topic, yours is OT.
You're a bit confrontational as well here and that's something we normally do not see in this forum either, leave it in the People forum Liam. You'll find the 2 forums are worlds apart when it comes to interaction by posters. ...Show more →
John,
I think we established a few posts back that this image is more of a 'portrait' than a 'sports' shot.
As for being confrontational, well, I think I have said all the way through this thread that I have no problem with people giving their opinion, good bad or indifferent.
Sounds to me that you have a problem with me posting here. Is that the case or am I misunderstanding you?
Wow people. Can we get off Liam now, please? He's explained himself fully at this point. The barbs in this thread are now coming from the sports forum regulars, not from 'the new guy'.
Liam posted a shot that could've been in the 'People' forum, but since it was of someone doing sports, he posted it here instead. He now understands that it was more in line with the 'People' forum and not the 'Sports' forum. He's stated as much already. Why do we still have people telling him that he's 'confrontational' or that he should go back where he came from?
I think the shot is quite legit as a sports photo. Just because the photo is not of a competitive event doesn't make is less of a sports photo. If someone took a photo of Lance Armstrong running, I'm sure very few would argue that it didn't belong here. This photo is no less a sports photo because the youngster is not an athlete, more because he's not competing. It's a legit sports photo. Sports photos are staged all the time. Ask Niel Leifer or Walter Iooss.
As such, the C&C given is done so within this context. I think most of the C&C given here has been good as usual (with the exception of the "blown highlights" that aren't really blown). People who shoot sports photos on a regular basis (and most who look at them) expect the photo to explain the context of the photo. While captions are often expected for sports photos, the lack of words to bring additional meaning to the photo does not diminish from the quality of the photo (hope that is making sense - a good photo is a good photo on its own w/o words).
Again, I think the C&C was good here. Liam, ignoring the perceptions of defensiveness or confrontation, as a practical matter, I think that once you have to start explaining too many things about a photo during C&C, one simply needs to step back and consider the advice given. So, IMHO, the photo is technically interesting (in many ways more interesting to me than the 'bat on ball' photos that are posted that are otherwise not interesting), it does not accomplish what most sports photos should for the reasons spelled out already. You're a fine photographer and if you're interested in improving your sports photos (including "sportraits"), this is a helpful and knowledgeable group. There is a measure of "group think" here (as well as some out-of-the-box brilliance), but no more than in the People section. The advice is free and we all do this for fun, right?
If you captured what you had in your mind's eye, that's great! Sometimes that's hard to do with sports photos (or any photos for that matter). Consider the advice given and work with it. You don't have to be a clone. But consider the new info to improve the creative side of any sports photos you may take in the future.
I assumed that since this was on the Sports Corner offering C&C (as the OP specifically asked for) that related to sports photography was okay. As is often the case, “assuming” anything is usually a bad idea.
You have received some constructive ideas here, and that is what you requested. Keep shooting and keep posting. Exposure looks pretty good to me too.