Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              end
  

Archive 2007 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review

  
 
PhilH
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


Etadam wrote:
Out of curiosity, may I ask, for this kind of deep review involving a lot of work from your side, does Canon help you - for instance does Canon lend/give you some equipment? or do you receive any compensation from them?


Nope. I don't receive anything from Canon. I am a CPS member though, so technically they can "lend" me equipment.

This was more of a curiosity test for me. I did the same when I purchased the 1Ds Mark II. I just decided to write down my results and share them this time. Mostly because I knew I was one of the early birds a few of my friends were *very* curious about the 1Ds Mark III.

But hey, if you're out there Canon and want to throw a 400 f/2.8L my way, I wouldn't mind at all.



Dec 04, 2007 at 09:01 PM
Etadam
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


Thank you for your answer - it gives even more credit to your review.

Regarding the other question "the actual part of the camera in this review", I'm afraid you could have also obtained a very honorable result with my 10D for the "duck" and "fog" pictures (with some PP)



Dec 04, 2007 at 09:25 PM
PhilH
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


Good point. Web sized images are really make it difficult to judge a camera's image quality. Which is why I provided raw files.

I used to have a 10D a long time ago and loved it a lot, but once I went full frame there was no looking back.

Here's a shot from a few years ago with that old 10D that I happily keep in my current portfolio.



Dec 04, 2007 at 10:16 PM
slobodan
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


In reference to your comments on Highlight Tone Priority, I could not find whether you are talking about RAW of JPEGs. The consensus has been so far that HTP has no impact whatsoever on RAW. Your findings as well?


Dec 04, 2007 at 10:41 PM
PhilH
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


At the beginning of the review I stated I only shoot in raw. HTP does effect raw capture. Otherwise that test wouldn't have shown anything.

I don't know where that "consensus" came from but I can honestly say that it's entirely incorrect. Where did you hear this?



Dec 04, 2007 at 10:47 PM
rscheffler
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review



Yakim Peled wrote:
I think I do. I - like many others - constantly use CF13 at 1,2 or 3 positions. 9 or 11 AF point were just right as the difference between two adjacent AF points is not noticeable in real world shooting. I can hypothesise that making all 45 AF points cross type would be too costly and not worth it for the majority of photographers.


PhilH wrote:
The thing is that the 1Ds Mark II's AF points are not all cross type, but you could select every single one of them and it would focus just fine. In the 1Ds Mark III you can see the other focus points being selected. If the camera can utilize them I believe you should be able to as well.

There is a noticeable difference in real world shooting. I'll give you an example just in the landscape photography like I did here. Tripod mounted you compose your frame to a composition that pleases. Then you try to lock focus, but you
...Show more

Given the example of landscape photography on a tripod of a stationary subject, if the manually selectable AF points don't cover the desired subject matter, I would suggest that live view is a viable solution to this problem. You have time and by using live view can very precisely set the focus point with confidence.

Ron



Dec 04, 2007 at 10:58 PM
asimplefarmer
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


great review!


Dec 04, 2007 at 11:08 PM
felipedana
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


great review & photography.



Dec 04, 2007 at 11:13 PM
Yakim Peled
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


PhilH wrote:
The thing is that the 1Ds Mark II's AF points are not all cross type, but you could select every single one of them and it would focus just fine. In the 1Ds Mark III you can see the other focus points being selected. If the camera can utilize them I believe you should be able to as well.

There is a noticeable difference in real world shooting. I'll give you an example just in the landscape photography like I did here. Tripod mounted you compose your frame to a composition that pleases. Then you try to lock focus, but you
...Show more

Of course there will always be situations when all 45 will be in need. All I am hypothesising is that such instances would be rare.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.




Dec 05, 2007 at 08:39 AM
bka20d
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


PhilH wrote:
At the beginning of the review I stated I only shoot in raw. HTP does effect raw capture. Otherwise that test wouldn't have shown anything.

I don't know where that "consensus" came from but I can honestly say that it's entirely incorrect. Where did you hear this?


i agree with you phil...
in opening my raw files from the 1ds3, in dpp the effects of htp are part of the baseline in-camera settings which effect how the raw files look. in camera raw when i open two files shot at iso 200-one with htp and the other without it, there is indeed a difference in the shadow information displayed: there is no shadow alert displayed on the image without htp but the file with htp does indeed have areas where the shadow alert is displaying. this would seem to support the notion that htp does effect how raw files are read by at least one non canon developer.



Dec 05, 2007 at 10:25 AM
slobodan
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


PhilH wrote:
...Where did you hear this?


HTP has zero effect on RAW. Google and see for yourself, there are tons of evidence. All it does it underexposes by one f/stop. In JPEG then it compensates by applying a special curve to pull out mid-tones and shadows. In RAW it simply remains underexposed.

As for where I heard it (among other sources):

"...In camera, all that is happening in raw mode with HTP is the exposure is reduced by 1-fstop....", Thomas Knoll

"... Highlight Tone Priority mode has no effect on the actual dynamic range of the image sensor. It's just an alternative method of image processing that preserves more highlight detail than standard processing... ", Chuck Westfall

Btw, the term "image processing" above refers to JPEG. There is no in-camera image processing for RAW.



Edited by slobodan on Dec 05, 2007 at 10:58 PM GMT (Reason: Added additional comments)



Dec 05, 2007 at 10:53 PM
bka20d
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


slobodan wrote:
HTP has zero effect on RAW. Google and see for yourself, there are tons of evidence. All it does it underexposes by one f/stop. In JPEG then it compensates by applying a special curve to pull out mid-tones and shadows. In RAW it simply remains underexposed.


a hotly debated item with lots of people having different opinions:
here is a perspecive on htp from bob atkins' 40d review. he initially stated that htp impacted only jpegs.
"Well, I've now had a chance to look a little more closely at the Highlight Tone Priority mode, and my guess about RAW files (see above) turns out to be wrong. It appears that Highlight Tone Priority affects both the RAW file and the JPEG file. I'm not quite sure what Canon are doing, but it appears to be more than just different processing of the RAW file into a JPEG. It may be some hardware related feature but until Canon tell us, it's hard to say just what's going on. Looking closely at images shot with Highlight Tone Priority turned on and off, there is an increase in the shadow noise if you look closely enough. However in situations which need highlight tone preservation, the increased detail in the highlights far more than makes up for any slight noise increase in the shadows."
here is a link to the full discussion: http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/canon_eos_40D_review_6.html




Dec 05, 2007 at 11:13 PM
slobodan
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


bka20d wrote:
... Looking closely at images shot with Highlight Tone Priority turned on and off, there is an increase in the shadow noise ...


Of course there is an increase in the shadow noise, which is just an unavoidable consequence of any underexposure (and HTP simply underexposes in RAW)

You will also notice that Bob Atkins admits several times he does not fully understand what is going on (with statements like: ...I'm not quite sure what Canon are doing, but it appears...")

There are only two reviewers in the whole world-wide web that I know of that are unaware of the fact that RAW is unaffected, i.e., Bob Atkins and OP.



Dec 05, 2007 at 11:27 PM
rico
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


dcraw by Dave Coffin supports RAW decoding of all Series 1, including the 1Ds3. Given samples of HTP and non-HTP, I can provide compelling evidence. A quick-and-dirty alternative is observing the RAW file size: due to the (non-lossy) compression algorithm, captured detail enlarges the file. Subject should be a white wall with texture, or something equivalent.


Dec 06, 2007 at 03:49 AM
Nick G Walker
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


PhilH wrote:
At the beginning of the review I stated I only shoot in raw. HTP does effect raw capture. Otherwise that test wouldn't have shown anything.

I don't know where that "consensus" came from but I can honestly say that it's entirely incorrect. Where did you hear this?


Phil,

I was curious how HTP affects RAW files, and processing in ACR V4. Thomas Knoll, in answer to my post at Adobe, stated unequivocally that the camera underexposes by 1 stop in RAW - ACR picks this up and adjust the exposure, unlike DPP it doesn't roll off the highlights.

I see little need for HTP in RAW, provided the RAW converter chosen has accurate highlight recovery mathematics. If I was a jpeg shooter, and I am glad that I am not, I would consider it essential to leave the HTP mode 'on' IMHO.

By the way a very good 1DS MKIII review and refreshing from other styles of review.



Edited by Nick G Walker on Dec 06, 2007 at 05:36 PM GMT



Dec 06, 2007 at 05:09 AM
slobodan
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


rico wrote:
dcraw by Dave Coffin supports RAW decoding of all Series 1, including the 1Ds3. Given samples of HTP and non-HTP, I can provide compelling evidence. A quick-and-dirty alternative is observing the RAW file size: due to the (non-lossy) compression algorithm, captured detail enlarges the file. Subject should be a white wall with texture, or something equivalent.


I am not sure I understood your post: are you saying that your compelling evidence proves there is an effect of HTP on RAW (i.e.,effect other than simply underexposing)? Or are you saying you have compelling evidence that HTP does NOT work in RAW (again, other than underexposing)?

Also, is your compelling evidence (whatever the intended meaning of it is) the difference in file size between HTP RAW files and non-HTP RAW files? Of course there is a difference: an underexposed file (i.e., HTP file) will typically have smaller size than a normally exposed one. If you shoot a bracketed sequence of three files, -1, 0, +1, the file sizes would typically be arranged by size like this: underexposed the smallest, then normally exposed, and overexposed the largest. A sample from my 40D: 11.6 Mb, 13 Mb, 14.6 Mb



Dec 06, 2007 at 11:59 AM
Stephen Liu
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


Thanks for the review


Dec 07, 2007 at 12:28 AM
John Mills
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Canon 1Ds Mark III Review


Nice work Phil and you are one lucky bugger!


Dec 07, 2007 at 06:33 AM
1       2       3              end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.