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Archive 2007 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

ButterflySis
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

I often see [heated] discussions here about those just starting out in the business. I'm more of a landscape/nature photographer myself, but ran across this article on a Studio Photography email and thought some of you would find the numbers interesting.

Is a Pro Photographer Wannabe Cutting Into Your Business?

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Sep 03, 2007 at 01:20 PM

jmlelii
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

IM curious to know how you describe a "wanna be pro."

Sep 03, 2007 at 02:19 PM

Nick Cooper
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

With the change in technology, this is going to be a problem. The only way to solve this is to continue to do what you do and let them just scrape by without any skill. Eventually word will get around that the quality of a wannabe is just not up there with the others that have been doing it for years. This applies in a lot of different fields. I guess you could say that I am an amateur wanting to get into the field, but I personally have turned down weddings because I do not feel comfortable enough in doing it yet. I don't want to put my name out there at the possibility of not returning a quality product. I like to be the best that I can possibly be and if I question my ability to deliver the best, I won't touch it.

Eventually I will break ground and get into the business of weddings but before I do that I want to start light with things like basic portraits. Right now I have a couple that want an engagement set done because the bride to be as seen my landscape work, loves it, and wants me to shoot the set. Another woman is a dancer who has seen my work and has had her husband (who works with me) contact me to get information. It's a start with more to come but at the same time I want to make sure that they get great quality. If I can consistently deliver that, then I'll be able to make some great additional income but I won't also be one of "those other guys" that the pros hate for charging less and taking away business. If I take away business from others I want the reason to be that I am just as good as anyone else that is also deserving of a gig. I have a different work ethic than some people and it helps in my main profession as well as how I approach photography.

Sep 03, 2007 at 02:29 PM

Nichole Manner
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

I just don't know how to react to this. I am a, I guess you could say,'pro wannabe'. I get that some professional photogs might feel territorial and have less than a warm fuzzy feeling about newbies. Did I go to school to be a photographer? No. But I know some really phenomenal photographers who taught themselves. I cannot speak for everyone, but most newbies that I have talked to price themselves at a lower rate because they are aware of their level of skill, not because they are trying to steal business. Many of us, because of digital, now have the means to pursue passions that we have. Why are we being portrayed as leeches? Some seasoned pros have been welcoming and are willing to share knowledge. Others forget that, they too, also had to start somewhere.
So, for all you pros who think we 'wannabes' are going to steal a piece of your pie......cut us some slack and give us a bite... Maybe some of us are not cut out for pro photography... but others may be a wealth of unleashed talent.

Sep 03, 2007 at 02:50 PM

stockriderman
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

There always will be wanna bees. Most of them go out of business and quit. In my city,we have about 4 wanna bee wedding photographers who charge $400 per full day wedding. I honestly don't know how they can survive. Obviously it's a side job. I had to rethink my prices and get my portfolio up to date. I want my customers see why they should hire me at instead of them.
Those wannabes mostly don't have an uptodate equipment. They don't spend as much time on post production,don't have access to a studio,don't offer as many services or for the same quality services.

Sep 03, 2007 at 03:10 PM

ButterflySis
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

jmlelii wrote:
IM curious to know how you describe a "wanna be pro."

I was quoting the title of the article and posted to share because of recent threads. I thought the survey was interesting and others would think so too.

As said by Nichole, everyone has to start somehow. Nick and I are sort of similar. I also shoot landscapes and have been asked to shoot several (3-4) weddings in the last year or so. I turned every one of them down. I feel the same as Nick. I'm not going to commit myself to something I'm not yet confident about. Weddings are a one shot deal. You have one shot to get it right and I'm not about to ruin the memories of someone's special day by letting them be my guinea pig. I've had people say, "Oh, but why not, you take such nice landscapes. I just want some pictures of the day...nothing fancy." Yea right. They say that but I know that I'd be upset with snapshots of my day.

Anyway...I've been doing some portraits for friends and family as practice. I'm doing at least two senior portraits this year (one's done already) and tell them up front..."This is not my thing. I'll do it, but if you're not happy, please feel free to go elsewhere." Because it's close friends and family, I leave the payment up to them. I was quite pleased with the results of the senior pics I just took..and so were they. They aren't perfect but they are better than some I've seen posted on various forums and web sites. I still have a lot to learn before becoming a "pro".

Sep 03, 2007 at 03:20 PM

SingleMalt
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

jmlelii wrote:
IM curious to know how you describe a "wanna be pro."

Good question.

I wonder. Is a "wanna be" a person who.

1. Devotes about 5 hours a week to practicing lighting and photography techniques?
2. Has purchased top level equipment, (x2) including a full line of pro glass.
3. Has joined professional organizations.
4. Purchased liability and equipment insurance.
5. Developed a detailed, long term business plan.
6. Devotes stacks of hours each week reading about the profession both from periodicals and from web resources.
7. Pays appropriate Federal, State, and Local taxes on income.
8. And is new to the business...?

OR

Is # 8 the only requirement to be considered a "wanna be?" Just asking.

Sep 03, 2007 at 03:23 PM

BarnDog
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

The premise of this is ridiculous.

Everyone is a pro-wannabee prior to being a pro. For all levels of service industry where a local or federal government minimum competency level is not mandated through testing and/or apprenticeship there will be a supply to fulfill the demand regardless of price or quality.

In other words: For every $400 a day wedding photog there will be a $400 a day bride willing to accept that level of quality of work. This holds true as the economy brings in and kicks out as demand dictates. Flood any market and you will have attrition, price wars, etc. This is a battle unions fight every day.

So the real issue is: Is the supply of wedding photographers affecting you because:

1.) Your prices are too high to justify a perceivable difference in quality.
2.) Brides are no longer concerned with quality and are only shopping price.
3.) Your "high priced" peers are cutting their prices to survive in a flooded market.

What do you do about it?

1.) Sell quality that equates to value no matter your price level. There will be brides in whatever market you compete. Exceed expectations and your competition. Customer service will rule the service industry.

The quality of workmanship should be apparent to the customer to justify spending more $$$. Most brides are NOT cheap. They mostly just want to feel as though they are getting more for the $$$'s they spend.

Just my opinion from a wannabee economist.

Sep 03, 2007 at 03:36 PM

ButterflySis
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

SingleMalt wrote:
Good question...

Again, I just posted to share. So it's not me that you should be asking what a wannabe pro is. I don't think there is any one definition but mine interpretation of their article is something like, "Someone who claims to be a pro but charges for services that are not even close to pro quality." ...i.e. snapshots, under/over exposed images, poor comps, etc.

I've heard that professional organizations are quite easy to get into these days so I'm not sure that means as much as it once might have. Though, to someone outside of the business belonging to PPA, or whatever, sounds impressive.

Great points by Barn.

I

Sep 03, 2007 at 03:45 PM

kevin cross
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

1. Devotes about 5 hours a week to practicing lighting and photography techniques?
2. Has purchased top level equipment, (x2) including a full line of pro glass.
3. Has joined professional organizations.
4. Purchased liability and equipment insurance.
5. Developed a detailed, long term business plan.
6. Devotes stacks of hours each week reading about the profession both from periodicals and from web resources.
7. Pays appropriate Federal, State, and Local taxes on income.
8. And is new to the business...?

that's all well and good if an amateur does all that, but is that all of what makes a pro? while you could debate over what circumstances make a pro, i would propose that it's professional competency as rated by "reasonable" peers, the same standard a doctor, lawyer, and many other professions are held to.

Sep 03, 2007 at 04:06 PM

Daniel Jenkins
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

Unfortunately, we live in country (U.S.) where everyone wants to be someone else. Take a flip through the t.v. one night- vast quantities of shows of teenagers being 'made' to look like their favorite 'star'; home design shows using 'stars' houses to be as copies for the living room of average joe's 3/2 Ranch; the list goes on in every profession, in every genre you can think of. This is exactly what marketing and advertising firms want everyone to do; spend money on brand 'x' to become person 'y'. Both good and bad, this has carried over into the creative and design professions. People with CS2 think they're graphic designers; someone with a new 40D thinks they're the new Ansel Adams; and someone with 350 really bad home decor shows behind their viewing eyes, think they're interior designers and even worse architects (my profession). The light at the end of the pro-sumer tunnel is, the best of the best's work will always shine and stand above those who try to be something they are not. The pro photogs should keep doing what they do best and doing what they've committed their time, money and endless passion to; we amateurs will still look to you as big brothers/sisters and as muses, hoping we get a least one shot done half as well as the shots the pros throw away.

Sep 03, 2007 at 04:26 PM

BarnDog
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

kevin cross wrote:
that's all well and good if an amateur does all that, but is that all of what makes a pro? while you could debate over what circumstances make a pro, i would propose that it's professional competency as rated by "reasonable" peers, the same standard a doctor, lawyer, and many other professions are held to.

Doctor, Lawyer and many other professions have competency benchmarks to be allowed to practice their profession. Even meeting those criteria, there are many many many incompetent doctors lawyers and such. Does that make THEM wannabees? Are they PRO because they passed a test? At least there is some criteria to base pro from armature with those professions.

I got this from Google:
__________________________
A professional works to receive payment for an activity (as a profession), which usually requires expertise and carries with it socially significant mores and folkways. That is to say, behaving professionally would indicate that the person's actions remain in accordance with specific rules, written or unwritten, pertaining to behavior, dress, speech, etc. By extension, the adjective professional can indicate that someone has great expertise or skill in a craft or activity.
__________________________

Since there are no actual required certifications for a "professional" photographer, you can judge against the above definition.

Pretty broad.

Sep 03, 2007 at 04:39 PM

kevin cross
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

i never said anything about a certification or test. i said that they are judged by reasonable peers to be of professional quality.

we all know that one becomes a professional whatever they do when they receive payment for their work. i thought we were speaking here on the assumption that we all know that and were discussing intangible qualities.

Sep 03, 2007 at 06:45 PM

unblinkable
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

I think that a Pro-Wanna-Be is very different than a Shouldn't-Be-A-Pro. And this thread seems to be interchanging the two.

Sep 03, 2007 at 06:59 PM

ButterflySis
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

unblinkable wrote:
I think that a Pro-Wanna-Be is very different than a Shouldn't-Be-A-Pro. And this thread seems to be interchanging the two.

Good point. With that said, I don't think "Pro Wannabe" was the correct phrase to use for their article...but I think we know they meant "shouldn't be a pro".

Sep 03, 2007 at 07:10 PM

LKeithR
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

This discussion has gone around a few times before and I think the answer is still the same. My brother and I have run a welding business for nearly 40 years (wow, time to think about quitting and spending more time taking pictures) and there has always been "backyard" or "wannabe" competition; heck, that's how we started out. But my point is that it doesn't matter what "business" you're in, unless it requires really large investments in equipment and infrastructure, there will always be competition from wannabes. I'll bet that some of you use backyard mechanics, backyard welders or have an accountant or bookkeeper who works out of their house. Is there really any difference?

If you can provide a good solid product/service, know how to price it to make a profit; know how to promote your business, find and retain good customers and generally make your business stand out from the competition then you should be successful no matter what you do. The competition is there to keep you sharp and as long as they're around you'll never be short of examples of how not to do things...

Sep 03, 2007 at 10:51 PM

J. Consiglio
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

For anyone that is taking this thread personal....

You need to ask yourself... "Are my clients happy?"

That's ALL I care about. Not what some other photographer thinks of me. And, if someone shopping photographers says "I've seen so-and-so" and the "long-term pro" bad mouths him, he too lost a potential client due to his lack of professionalism.

So, don't worry what ANYONE but the client thinks because even if other photographers are b*tchy about "their" territory, any decent one will not speak badly unless you really are terrible!

I do my best everyday and I NEVER stop educating myself and seeing what's new. My clients are always happy.....so am I.

Good luck to you all,
Jonathan Consiglio

Sep 03, 2007 at 11:28 PM

Lord Fluff
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

If you are trying to work the bottom end I am sure it is a worry; I doubt that Jerry Ghionis loses much sleep over the noobs.

End of the day, as Jonathan says, if your customers are happy.......

Sep 04, 2007 at 03:44 AM

clocksley
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

You shouldn't really be worried about someone who is not as good as you taking your business - they will only take your business if you are not good enough or not good enough value for money. If they are inferior but charge 1/10th of the price and the customer is happy then that, my friends, is the capitalist way that we all live and die by. The customer pays and gets what they want - if you can't compete then that's just market forces.

Sep 04, 2007 at 09:10 AM

mauriceramirez
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · "Pro Wannabes" - An Article

I don't have a problem with the pro-wanna-be's. The ones willing to make all the necessary investments in themselves and in the industry to gain clients and contribute to the marketplace. They join associations, go to conferences, improve their skills, engage their business in all the proper ways (paying 2nd assistants, paying taxes, using contracts, disclosure, etc), and are truthful and honest with their clients. Their plan is to leave their day jobs. They are only temporarily cheaper due to some lack of experience.

I have a huge problem with the pro-don't-wanna-bes. The ones who are unwilling to step up to meet standards and ethics, but have no other goal than to take away business from others using unfair and deceptive tactics. These are also the lowballers, freeballers, weekenders, etc. They will not ever leave their day jobs. They are focused on other things rather than being professional (such as paying "for their equipment"), and in fact have no real intent of ever doing so, and should just be enjoying a hobby. They are cheaper for the sole reason of undercutting the competition.

Gear is a non-issue. And "Pro-glass" is definitely not one of the requirements. If you think it's about gear, then it's a red flag that you have the mindset of the latter.

And obviously, it's always the clients that should be happy. But you have to be happy, too. You aren't going to be around to help future clients if you have a plan that is doomed to fail. Talented lowballers have happy clients, very happy in fact. But they are still part of the latter group. So that's not really a good indicator.

-m

Sep 04, 2007 at 09:16 AM

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