p.4 #1 · The disillusionment of the Canon Elite begins...
Bobster2 wrote:
In three or four years (maybe less) Canon will have 20 megapixel full frame for $1500 and it will even have a popup flash.
APS digital will last as long as APS film. About 10 years.
APS digital will always be there for the entry level DSLRs. The cost of the sensor is related to its size--Moore's law (the capability of a processor doubles every 18 months) does not apply, becasue it assumes a shrinking geometry (ie a smaller chip size).
I hope we have a 20MP FF for $1500, but if we do, there will be a $150 APS-C entry level body to get new users hooked into the lens system.
p.4 #2 · The disillusionment of the Canon Elite begins...
Nick, the Pentax 19MP vs future Canon 1Ds.x 22-24MP in a FF format is something I am looking forward to. I've read on the net somewhere in the last couple of days that the expected size of the Pentax sensor is about twice the size of the FF sensor, not the 3.something of a traditional 6x4.5cm negative. Should be fun to watch the DR and high ISO noise comparisons.
It might shame the 12MP P&S people into an 8MP dslr
p.4 #3 · The disillusionment of the Canon Elite begins...
Monito wrote:
I don't know what you are trying to get at.
Sorry if I was not clear.
I was trying to say that Canon is not building the roadmap around any specific crop sensors. They are covering each market segment with price and the MP. They just need a 8MP DSLR to sell at $1,500. Today, 1.6x sensor is only viable option to meet the Price/MP point. If they could do it with FF, they would do that.
p.4 #4 · The disillusionment of the Canon Elite begins...
darknite wrote:
Nick, the Pentax 19MP vs future Canon 1Ds.x 22-24MP in a FF format is something I am looking forward to. I've read on the net somewhere in the last couple of days that the expected size of the Pentax sensor is about twice the size of the FF sensor, not the 3.something of a traditional 6x4.5cm negative. Should be fun to watch the DR and high ISO noise comparisons.
It might shame the 12MP P&S people into an 8MP dslr
Even if the 645 is a 1.3x crop or whatever, it's opening a lot of doors. There's no reason to believe they won't eventually hit 6x4.5cm in the future. So if you buy in now and start investing in the system, you'll eventually get the benefit of a bigger sensor and more MP.
I just see Canon as quickly approaching a hurdle. Once they release a full-frame at the pixel pitch of the 20D there's going to have to be some serious technology improvements before they can go any higher in resolution. It's why the 30D isn't 10MP... there's not currently much sense in an incremental upgrade. So they either need to overcome the need for the Bayer pattern filter, or figure out some sort of better post-processing algorithms so they can get the more out of a high-density sensor.
I'm not saying doom & gloom for Canon's 35mm offerings, just that we will start seeing a more downward pressure on price. And more pressure to build lenses that take advantage of a high-res full-fram sensor.
p.4 #5 · The disillusionment of the Canon Elite begins...
darknite wrote:
Nickrh, Does full frame or even 1.6 need to compete with medium format? (not flaming, just wondering) Canon & Nikon both have a huge range of lenses from ultra wide to serious super telelphoto that MF cannot match. MF doesn't allow you to shoot fast, its not very portable compared to FF and 1.6.
You could equally say the same about the 1Ds2. Given that 99% of the DSLR world is happy shooting with crop sensors including both the main aspects of quality and flexibility, is the FF sensor any more than the new 645?
I see FF as exactly that, 645 with the added benefits of the 35mm system range of lenses and accessories, not as the future per se.
I think in the time to come, the APS-C size will undoubtably become the de facto standard for digital sensors because it maintains that ideal balance of a high enough quality to satisfy the needs of the vast majority and their expected uses, as well as improvements in size and lens quality. Its easy to argue that the 1.6x reduction in field of view is of considerably more benefit than the arbitrary designation of a standard lens being 50mm especially when there is a real practical limit to just how wide you can go, or indeed need to go, with a lens view. Current fisheyes already go about as far as you require on APS-C, but is there such a thing as too much telephoto?
As sensor tech marches on, the real world benefits of the FF sensor will become less and less and matter to fewer and fewer people. Inevitable im my view. FF is here to stay, but its not going mainstream.
p.4 #6 · The disillusionment of the Canon Elite begins...
nickrh wrote:
I just see Canon as quickly approaching a hurdle. Once they release a full-frame at the pixel pitch of the 20D there's going to have to be some serious technology improvements before they can go any higher in resolution. It's why the 30D isn't 10MP... there's not currently much sense in an incremental upgrade. So they either need to overcome the need for the Bayer pattern filter, or figure out some sort of better post-processing algorithms so they can get the more out of a high-density sensor.
I would think we'd need a new set of higher resolution lenses as well. Putting a 200MP body behind a 17-40 or 100-400 won't do you any good.
As for another poster asking why I care if the 17-55 carries an "L" tag... like I said, I don't care about the lens being an "L" at all. I care how Canon positions EF-S, and putting an "L" on an EF-S lens would tell us what their designs for EF-S are. NOT putting an "L" on a $1100 lens must make you wonder why Canon doesn't consider this a "professional" lens. The logical conclusion is that since the lens exceeds the specs of its EF counterpart, but does not carry the "L" tag, that EF-S is not a "professional" format.
As someone else in another forum said, Canon and Nikon really should release a roadmap for photographers. It's stupid that thousands of us have invested thousands of dollars (and thousands more in the future) on an investment that is understood to last more than a decade, but Canon will not tell us what their plans for the system are.
