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Archive 2006 · finally 30D !!!

  
 
CurtPick
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p.9 #1 · finally 30D !!!


This is like listening to a bunch of Hens in a Chicken Coop ! It never ends !

Lets remember that technology has it peaks in all venues. And the DSLR market is near its peak. The initial goal was to create a platform that would mimic or equal the 35mm film platform, both in functionality and in picture quality. There is only so much you can do to get to the point where the two become equals. And thanks to engineering the manufacturers have nearly equaled film. You can only push shutter speeds so far, you can only have so many megapixels before the human eye no longer sees the diffference. Now that they have nearly perfected digital metering, the next step will be to refine the chip. You will see a digic III procesor next because the current platform has exhausted its capabilities. You will see more true to life colors, you will see virtually noiseless digital photos, but after that what can they do ?
The incremental upgrades that all manufacturers do is simply a stepping stone in digital technologies. Canon gave everyone using the 20D platform what they ask for. A completely refined 20D ( with exception of MLU ). YOu can count on that in the next release. Canon made a very smart move here, they used the same platform as the 5D ( body, LCD , etc...) That cuts their manufacturing cost to be sure. A very wise business decision. Is it targeted at 20D users who want to upgrade, well... yes and no. It fits as a decent upgrade but even more so as a Very nice prosumer body. Canon now will have to make the decision of eliminating the EF-S platform of lenses. And that will be done. Thier only road for another Body now is a 1.3x sensor or a noiser 1.6x with more Megapixels.
Dont expect it to happen overnight. There was a lot of monies spent on the devolpment of the 5D platform. Complete re-tooling was required and until they recoop those cost the 20D platform will be tweaked as will the 5D.

I applaud any manufactuere that gives the consumer what they ask for. And believe Canon has done exactly that with this release without killing there own bottom line.

Edited by CurtPick on Feb 21, 2006 at 06:32 PM GMT



Feb 21, 2006 at 11:55 AM
Sprout Crumble
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p.9 #2 · finally 30D !!!


I think this year will see the 1d series reduced to one body and the staggering premium for the 1Ds disappear. Canon can't keep up this charade of production costs any longer and if they're sincere in their belief that FF is the future, they won't be able to.

Sincerely hope you're right on another body. Not bothered about MP count as have always been chuffed with the 20D's quality, but want that tough body, sharp AF, wi-fi, mirror lock etc without having to sell the car.



Feb 21, 2006 at 12:00 PM
ImperialRed
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p.9 #3 · finally 30D !!!


From what I see...about 99% of the complaints here are from people that already have the 20D or maybe even the 5D. I understand that you may be upset but for me as a 10D owner...I think this is a great camera.

More stuff than the 20D...for less money than it (the 20D) was initially introduced for.

Sionora 10D........30D here I come!



Feb 21, 2006 at 12:08 PM
David.G
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p.9 #4 · finally 30D !!!


Like everyone else, not really impressed other than the larger lcd. I won't be selling my 20D anytime soon because it will become my backup when I eventually buy a 30D...or maybe even the 5D.


Feb 21, 2006 at 12:26 PM
jdaily
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p.9 #5 · finally 30D !!!


CurtPick wrote:
Canon now will have to make the decision of eliminating the EF-S platform of lenses. And that will be done.


I would have believed that yesterday, but now that Canon has announced a $1200 EF-S lens, I'm not so sure.



Feb 21, 2006 at 12:48 PM
abam
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p.9 #6 · finally 30D !!!


the vast majority of canon dslr users use EF-S bodies. because 1.6 sensors are cheaper to produce, canon will have a 1.6 lineup for some years to come. they have to, or else nikon or oly will gain on canon's market share by taking up the very lucrative segment of amateur/enthusiast camera users.

EF-S isn't going anywhere in the forseeable future.



Feb 21, 2006 at 12:56 PM
jray
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p.9 #7 · finally 30D !!!


Let's see, we've already started finding problems with the 30D without seeing any production model test results.

Are the added features over the 20D worth the upgrade? Well it depends on where you are upgrading from, and what features are important to you.

I still use 10Ds. Although I was tempted to upgrade when the 20D came out (instant on, high precision focus mode with f2.8 or faster lenses, lower noise at high ISO, mush faster write times to the memory card verses the 10D, a grip that could use AA batts, etc), there were a few things that held me back. The shutter noise was aggravating, and the reduced body size was not a plus in my book, however the six RAW file buffer size was the real turn off for me.

I shoot RAW. Yes there are times when I shoot jpg files for one reason or another, but most of the time I live in the RAW mode. Six frames just didn't cut it. The 30D fixes the buffer problem for the most part IMO, and coupled with the fast memory card write time of the 20D, this should make for a decent high speed platform.


What about the 30D's new features?

  • Selectable 3/5fps rate: Great, I really wanted this feature.

  • Improved AF performance: This is always a plus, but real world comparison tests are needed.

  • ISO selectable in 1/3 stops: Thank you Canon. Now we need to see if the noise is also equally distributed.

  • ISO in viewfinder: I'm glad for this, but I came up with a system to set ISO without looking.

  • Better joystick: Having used a 20D but not owning own, I'll have to assume it's better.

  • RGB histogram: Nice. I shoot RAW and use the histogram for exposure decisions in most cases.

  • 3.5 degree spot meter: Since I use the histogram for exposure, this is less of a big deal to me.

  • Improved shutter design: Once again, always a plus. I hope it's quieter like the 5D.

  • Larger LCD: Always a plus if the intensity stays high.



Things they didn't add:

  • More pixels: Good! I'm glad to see Canon knows when to stop. More than 8-9MP on a 1.6x 35mm format is just asking for trouble. More noise, and the one problem that is insurmountable, diffraction limiting at smaller apertures.

  • Body size: I would have liked a 5D sized body, thank you very much.

  • MLU: Yep, I would love this. In fact I'd like to see a few user assignable button combinations. I mentioned such a scheme on the RB forums a few years back.


Some are mentioning things that were not upgraded without having any information to support it. For example, the mention that images will not be of any better quality on the 30D, is non-supported by anything I've read so far. Yes, Canon intends to use the same sensor as the 20D, but this does not mean they haven't made other advances to improve noise figures and possibly dynamic range.

I have yet to see a Canon DSLR replacement come out that did not show at least slight advancements in high ISO noise figures, and quite often improved dynamic range as well. I'm hoping the 30D will be no exception.

As far as evolutionary verses revolutionary, what did you expect. All new technologies will hit certain stumbling blocks as they mature, and digital photography is no exception. Since there is little to be gained for 1.6x image sensors by adding additional pixels, the manufacturers have to concentrate their attention on other things. Lower noise, especially at higher ISO setting, higher usable ISO setting due to the previous, better dynamic range, inherently sharper images created by the use of less aggressive AA filters through better microlens designs, etc. There are lots of places where improvements can be made that are not related to producing larger MP sensors for a particular format.

Anyway, as a 10D owner I will be watching the 30D test results a reviews carefully since I feel this might be a camera I could live with for a few years.



Feb 21, 2006 at 01:49 PM
lexvo
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p.9 #8 · finally 30D !!!


EOS20 wrote:
Oh well, heres to Photokina and the new rumour mill!


Cheers!



Feb 21, 2006 at 01:50 PM
Richie S
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p.9 #9 · finally 30D !!!


bring on the next round. It made sense to keep a camera in the market at this level, just like it makes sense to pitch another Camera somewhere between 1700 and 2200. It'll come I'm sure...... the next round of rumors can begin ;o)


Feb 21, 2006 at 02:26 PM
adamfilip
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p.9 #10 · finally 30D !!!


Question - Who will use the print button?


Feb 21, 2006 at 02:34 PM
EOS20
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p.9 #11 · finally 30D !!!


I wonder if we will see a 30Da?


Feb 21, 2006 at 02:48 PM
DmitriM
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p.9 #12 · finally 30D !!!


I am not impressed. I wanted more. I just hope they've improved AF. This is the LEAST they can do. 20D isn't the best at it. Print button? That's just stupid...
I just hope they'll release a Second Version of 30D..like 30D II or something with 10-12MP.

D200 won the challenge race and that's sad. The right marketing would not be compete but dominate!! Canon surely failed at that.



Feb 21, 2006 at 02:52 PM
JCDoss
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p.9 #13 · finally 30D !!!


DutchGuy wrote:
But is it enough to upgrade ?


I think so. I have a 20D and I think these new functions are worth upgrading to especially since the price will go down and the 20D will still be worth something. IOW, the price of this "upgrade" really isn't all that much.




Feb 21, 2006 at 04:37 PM
uyehara
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p.9 #14 · finally 30D !!!


20D price drop on Amazon (Body Only) $1,129.94 vs B&H $1,141.95


Feb 21, 2006 at 04:52 PM
RyanFlynn
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p.9 #15 · finally 30D !!!


I think one could only be dissappointed if your expectations were too high to begin with. It's a 20Dn, and for what it is, they did a good job. 1-2 more MP are only necessary from a marketing standpoint, because some people think that's actually important. I'll stick with a clean 8.2 rather than a noisy 10ish. I just don't get the disappointment over not having a couple more MP...

The other features are very cool, especially the bigger LCD, deeper buffer, and ISO 1/3 stops. But the Direct Print button is still rediculous...who would ever use it?

The only thing I was hoping it would have, is weather sealing. As far as I see it, that's the ONLY thing better on the D200 than the 20D/30D. Weather-sealing and a bigger LCD would have been enough for me to sell the 20D. I'm sticking with the 20D, and happily, too!

For newcomers to the DSLR scene, I think it's great.

Can someone verify the "updated shutter life" of 100,000 actuations? I've always heard/read that the 20D is rated to 100k, too



Feb 21, 2006 at 04:59 PM
beji
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p.9 #16 · finally 30D !!!


Ryan,
Weather sealing is not the ONLY thing on D200. The viewfinder is much bigger in that camera. I don't care much about the MP size. I am greatly disapointed about the viewfinder. Everything else is fine for me. I am a telephoto guy, so , can't buy a 5D for viewfinder
regards,
-Beji



Feb 21, 2006 at 05:34 PM
Willamette
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p.9 #17 · finally 30D !!!


My feeling is Canon is creating a hole for a new camera that fills the niche between the 5D and the 30D.

My hope is a semi to pro level crop camera in the sub 2k range. Specs of a 30D plus a larger sensor (10+), smaller unibody with integrated vertical shutter release, longer battery life, more focus points, more fps, better ISO noise reduction, EF-S mount, and more water resistance. Then drop the 1DmkII from the line-up and replace it with a high end full frame body, like the 3D that is rumored between 5D and 1DsmkII.



Feb 21, 2006 at 06:39 PM
mfoto
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p.9 #18 · finally 30D !!!


The 30D looks like a great camera to me and for the price it will be tough to beat. Unless you are starting from scratch why compare with a D200? There are certainly things in the 30D I would like to see in my 20D such as 1/3 stop ISO but I doubt that it enough for me to upgrade…. And is it that so bad… NO… It’s actually almost a relief that we don’t have to upgrade every 18 month. Still Canon’s done well with this one. Why would you need more MP… let’s face it 80% of shooters probably do not need this in a mid-range digital SLR. The next camera for me is the illusive 3D, 5D or future 1D body… most likely not this one unless I a can swing a quick deal selling my 20D… I’m not going to lose sleep over it if I don’t. I would rather go for more glass… say that new 85 1.2L USM would fit well into my setup




Feb 21, 2006 at 06:57 PM
jimdavies
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p.9 #19 · finally 30D !!!


A question. I note a few users have noted that Canon did not add MLU to the 30D. I have it on the 20D. Has the 30D therefore been downgraded?


Feb 21, 2006 at 07:43 PM
jdaily
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p.9 #20 · finally 30D !!!


jimdavies wrote:
A question. I note a few users have noted that Canon did not add MLU to the 30D. I have it on the 20D. Has the 30D therefore been downgraded?


No, they're lamenting the fact that it's still difficult to turn on; many Canon users have wished for a MLU button.



Feb 21, 2006 at 07:57 PM
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