Kyle Yates wrote:
I can't think of a SINGLE canon user who flogged the 1D2 to buy the 20D. -- Certainly none of my colleagues..
Your colleagues might all be pros .
The 1DMKII was simply overkill for those amateurs who bought them and that`s why they opted to sell it off for a 20D. The 8MP`s and 5fps was all they needed.
Obviously real Pros who did buy the 1D MKII wouldn`t want the lesser undependable AF of the 20D and for manyother reasons .
Totally different animal --the 1D2 is a sport and PJ's camera par exellence --and for shooting in "machine gun mode" there isn't another equal around.
It wasn't designed for huge landscapes etc although it makes a good stab at those as well. Maybe a few wedding shooters might have switched --but I can't really see why as the noise performance on the 1D2 is really very good.
The noise performance on the 20D is also very good isn`t it?
I'm not saying there aren't sports and PJ's using Nikon gear but you'd have to be totally Brain Dead if you had a 1D2 and swapped it for a 20D and were any sort of PRO Canon Sports / PJ shooter.
Thats from your POV and certainly not from an amateur`s where price is definitely more of a consideration.
You simply have to think outside of your own mind and try to understand who these amateur class cameras are aimed toward.
However to get back to the point -- what's good about the Canon 5D announcement is that it continually forces prices downwards.
I agree with the above wholeheartedly.
Whatever you shoot that HAS to be good news --and if enough of the Market is clamouring for features (no matter how illogical those demands might be) then sooner or later they will either be provided or the company refusing to supply the demand will find its customers going elsewhere.
Are you implying that only Canon is doing this?
Cheers
-K
Edited by Kyle Yates on Aug 22, 2005 at 02:55 PM GMT...Show more →
Thats all I care about.. However, Nikon can be stubborn. They could be stubborn to the grave... and you watch the D2x's being chucked in the bin IF they ever released a F7 (digital).
It looks like canon users have choices. FF for prices that Nikon advocates said to themselves (nervously) would not happen for ten years, 1.6 crop that outperforms any other in the total package and has a crop like the nikons and a middle ground with performance that has not been bested since it came out in 2002 in the 1D and a middle ground 1.25 crop.
Of course Nikon users have choices too. They can take what Nikon gives them, what Nikon has decided is good for everyone and what Nikon manages to produce - when they finally get around to it. Do some of you really have to try to comfort yourselves with how much better the wides are. Nikon urban legend or last gasp hope? Not sure, relax and go take pictures - don't go for all this Canon put down. It just sounds desperate.
These are good Canon times. Admit it and don't bother with the slams. Go enjoy what you have. It's ok to admit that the canon users are on top of the world - because it doens't make your equipment any different or worse than it was yesterday.
If your happy with your choices - and I suspect you are. Think about it ... so are they - and it's a good day for them. Yours should be here in a while.
lxdesign wrote:
I looked at the dpreview photo of the new camera - is it just me, or does anyone else think it looks like a cheap plastic hunk of camera?
It's a 20D with a Full Frame Sensor. So that looks like it won't really be cheap plastic. It does look like it though
And if it is cheap plastic ... that's ok because you pays your money and takes your compromises. That would be just fine for that price. If you want the moon and stars in "feel" ... pay more ( a lot more )
Pavel wrote:
It looks like canon users have choices. FF for prices that Nikon advocates said to themselves (nervously) would not happen for ten years, 1.6 crop that outperforms any other in the total package and has a crop like the nikons and a middle ground with performance that has not been bested since it came out in 2002 in the 1D and a middle ground 1.25 crop.
Of course Nikon users have choices too. They can take what Nikon gives them, what Nikon has decided is good for everyone and what Nikon manages to produce - when they finally get around to it.
I guess it's all a matter of perspective... ...Show more →
Nikon has a 1.5 crop camera that outperforms Canon's full-frame cameras, vastly outperforms Canon's 1.3 crop cameras, and simply embarrasses Canon's 1.6 crop cameras. How much more choice do we need?
Do some of you really have to try to comfort yourselves with how much better the wides are. Nikon urban legend or last gasp hope? Not sure, relax and go take pictures - don't go for all this Canon put down. It just sounds desperate.
You would have to be seriously visually impaired to not appreciate the Nikon (and Leica, and Zeiss, and Olympus, and probably Pentax, and Minolta, and Tamron, and Sigma, and Tokina, and Spooginar, and RectalPro...) advantages over Canon here.
Of course Nikon users have choices too. They can take what Nikon gives them, what Nikon has decided is good for everyone and what Nikon manages to produce
For Pete's sake, give it rest, will you? You're clearly not going to be happy until every Nikon shooter on this forum admits that Canon is superior, that Nikon is just barely hanging on, and that our crappy cameras are clearly inferior. No idea why you need to denegrate others to feel good about yourself or your camera, and I really don't care, but I wish you'd take your Nikon bashing back to the Canon forum.
Speaking only for myself: I'll buy the best camera that I can afford. If it has a 35mm sensor, so be it. If it's smaller, that's fine too. Sensor size is just not an important factor in me choosing a camera.
Nikon shooters had 35mm sensors available to them before Canon users did. Totally irrelevent to me, but I thought you might want to use some actual facts in your argument.
David R wrote:
Nikon shooters had 35mm sensors available to them before Canon users did. Totally irrelevent to me, but I thought you might want to use some actual facts in your argument.
Pavel has never cared about facts. At least not in the Nikon Forum. He's just trolling along.
lxdesign wrote:
I looked at the dpreview photo of the new camera - is it just me, or does anyone else think it looks like a cheap plastic hunk of camera?
I was kinda wondering when this idea would crop up. Now I won't say the 20D is a cheap hunk but when I was in the market and considered a switch the 20D just didn't have enough to make me turn. I essentially view the this new camera as a 20D with a larger sensor at a far greater price.
Here is the kicker. I won't argue the merits of a larger sensor however, those potentials haven't been realized in that, thus far, any comparison of the 1Ds mk II and the D2X don't show a significant advantage for me.
Take a step further and apply that to the 5D I will say there is no significant advantage for me to up a great deal of money when for a little more I can have a D2X. No real loss, no foul.
You say you need 24x36mm? hey there it is. For me its not a significant (if any) advantage at this point and to me, it seems Canon is committed to advance the marketing of 24x36mm realizing opinion, right or wrong, wins. If they in fact advanced the technology I might be saying something different.
There are potential benefits to 24x36mm but in todays offerings those benefits haven't been realized. The suppposed benefits it does offer today, isn't significant enough for me to consider the fair outlay involved.
Anything more than that, once again becomes a "mine is bigger than yours" and if thats all it is well .... post ur address and I will send you a cookie. I'll even sing "for he is a jolly good fellow" and be willing to crown you the winner.
The fact that this thread has gone on as long as it has......Nay, the fact that it even exists tells me most of you really don't understand what your own equipment is about.........let alone photography.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but truth be told.............
I must admit, that when I read here about the upcoming 12mp Canon, I entertained
the thought of adding a Canon to my Nikon stuff - that is until I saw a picture
of it, the new Canon, on Dp Review, and boy is it a horrid cheap O looking body.
I'm sticking with the Nikon group. Nikon may be slow in updating their camera line - but usually the wait is well worth it.
i would be curious to see what the viewfinder looks like. it doesn't have a popup flash, but the VF mag is 0.71x with 95% coverage. That doesn't sound all that appealing. People may buy this thing in droves, but it does absolutely nothing for me. I've said it before and I'll say it again. They're going to have to dramatically increase dynamic range and improve the viewfinder before I buy another digital camera.
Come on guys don't go down in the gutter just because someone else did, both Canon and Nikon make incredible cameras that let us do things we would only have dreamed of 5 years ago.
Canon has put most of its effort into larger sensors and their sensor technology.
Nikon has put a lot more effort in very well made DX lenses to give great results on all of their 1.5x crop cameras from the D50 to the D2X (and hopefully the D200, when they get around to it).
Different business models, both great cameras, Canon is winning the 'churn out better cameras every year war' but hey, lets go shoot.
Canon, good job on a great new camera, the 5D. I hope everyone that buys it gets wonderful results and is 100% happy.
Hmm, no on board flash. I wonder how this is gonna sit with those who find the pop up flash useful.
Normally a pro body wouldn`t sport a pop up flash but the 5D is not in that class.(well maybe it could be at that)
Regardless, this will mean that an external flash would have to be taken along on most outings. Maybe not a bigee for some but for others it will be something to consider.
John
It just sounds contraditory, a bit funny really. 
Why are you worried? 
( a lot more