fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              7              9       10       end
  

Archive 2005 · Disappointed in the 5D

  
 
uz2work
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #1 · Disappointed in the 5D


dcmiller wrote:
I don't believe they consider it a mature product. I believe it is a competitive reponse to Nikon while they prepare their DIGIC III ubercamera. With Canon you can figure out what they will do with their 1 series camers if you know the data throughput they can handle. They've figure out the noise problem, and how to build large sensors with reasonable economy. Can they build a low power very high data rate processor? Not this year.


At this point in the DSLR market, I think that we give more weight than is actually true to thinking about competition between Canon and Nikon. Any cameras that Canon is releasing now were planned long before the introduction of the D2X. Also, if you look at recent releases from both manufacturers, it is clear that they no longer feel a need to compete with each other at each model level, except, perhaps, at the entry level.
When Nikon updated the D2H, what were they competing with? Certainly, with half the pixels, it was not the 1DII. The D2X certainly is not competing with either the 1DII or the 1DIIs. The 1DIIs was not introduced by Canon to compete with any particular Nikon model. The 5D is not designed to compete with anything that Nikon is offering, and the 1DII N doesn't help Canon to compete with any Nikon model any better than did the 1DII.
It should be clear that each manufacturer is no longer trying to compete with specific models of the other. Instead, each has staked out a strategy that includes a line up that it feels, independent of what the other manufacturer is doing, will sell cameras for its company. Again, the only place where they are trying to compete with each other directly is at the entry level. That is where the vast majority of sales will come. That is where, based on sheer volume, the money is to be made, and that is also where they want to hook in new buyers so that they can, down the road, sell them the upscale models and
numerous lenses. Once they have hooked in those first time buyers, the purpose of the rest of the line up is not to compete with the other manufacturer, but, instead to design cameras that will appeal to the customers that they already have.
Les



Aug 25, 2005 at 01:37 PM
John Power
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #2 · Disappointed in the 5D


I wish the original poster would edit his title to make it right. How hard is it to click edit and type "disappointed in the 5D"?


Aug 25, 2005 at 03:18 PM
Jeff
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.8 #3 · Disappointed in the 5D


I guess my point in saying that it is a 'mature product' is that the PJ and sports people out there actually using it would likely say that the camera does what they need it to do, and doesn't need any earth-shattering upgrade in order to make it work for them. Someone who refuses to pony up the $8K required to get their perfect camera can't (in reality) complain about the 1DMkII lacking in resolution. It's ridiculous, quite honestly, and I've taken exception to it because slamming Canon is not the appropriate response. I think the D2x is the camera for certain people, and until Canon matches it, there will always be people who scream and whine. As long as enough people pay the price of entry for the flagship, the price won't be coming down, as it has not since the 1Ds' introduction nearly 3 years ago.

Yes, digital is still evolving, and there are some major strides to be made now in image quality, not resolution. Most sports and PJ people don't truly need higher-res for their market. Could they use it once in a blue moon? Sure, and maybe digital cameras will be replaced by video cameras some day. If they need higher-res, they have the 1Ds or D2x.

The 1DII is in the refinement stage, and this is in part due to the apparent merging of the D- and Ds-Series that is supposedly due in the next 18 months. I realize we are all now used to earth-shattering improvements with each new model, but with the lineup at 8 to 16 MP, those future refinements (if they are to be 'real') won't be in resolution, they will be in image quality. Had they upgraded the sensor on the 1DII now, then all those who bought the new version would scream when their camera was 'obsoleted' by the merged 1-Series camera next year. This incremental upgrade had to happen at some point.

Also, why do we need a consumer grade camera (i.e. the 20D) that shoots images that are better than 35mm film? Most of us don't, and I'm sure we'll all be screaming bloody murder if/when the 20D successor is another 'incremental' upgrade, as it probably should be. 11+ MP is not warranted in that market, not that we won't see it, and not that many of you don't want it. Heck, to be honest, the D30 takes as good a picture as many film SLR users were capable of taking years ago, anyway! The 350D certainly does so, to an even greater degree.

Canon listened to us on the 5D, now I hope their next serious endeavor is addressing image quality issues that have been, until now, somewhat disregarded for resolution.

As always...

Edited by Jeff on Aug 25, 2005 at 01:33 PM GMT (Reason: typo)



Aug 25, 2005 at 03:27 PM
Jeff
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.8 #4 · Disappointed in the 5D


John Power wrote:
I wish the original poster would edit his title to make it right. How hard is it to click edit and type "disappointed in the 5D"?


p

in the




Aug 25, 2005 at 03:29 PM
John Power
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #5 · Disappointed in the 5D


Thanks Arhi. No more sleepless nights for me...


Aug 25, 2005 at 05:53 PM
CoastalFog
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #6 · Disappointed in the 5D


I love watching this forum everytime a new camera comes out...

At least people waited until the 20d actually came out before they started complaining about it ;-)

Cris...



Aug 25, 2005 at 06:08 PM
The Big Bad
Offline
• • • •
[X]
p.8 #7 · Disappointed in the 5D


CoastalFog wrote:
I love watching this forum everytime a new camera comes out...

At least people waited until the 20d actually came out before they started complaining about it ;-)

Cris...


Like heck they did !

As soon as it was "leaked" everyone started saying how 2megs wasnt worth the upgrade,

how its going to be noiser because the sensor wasnt bigger and you cant have low noise with smaller pixels,

how the AF had better be better,

how its not weather sealed,

how the new screen was dimmer and fuzzier,

how the AF point layout sucked

how the joystick was stupid,

how the shutter/mirror was way to loud,

etc etc etc





Aug 25, 2005 at 06:25 PM
CoastalFog
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #8 · Disappointed in the 5D


Oh yeh how could i forget ;--)

Cris....



Aug 25, 2005 at 06:39 PM
uz2work
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #9 · Disappointed in the 5D


The Big Bad wrote:
Like heck they did !

As soon as it was "leaked" everyone started saying how 2megs wasnt worth the upgrade,

how its going to be noiser because the sensor wasnt bigger and you cant have low noise with smaller pixels,

how the AF had better be better,

how its not weather sealed,

how the new screen was dimmer and fuzzier,

how the AF point layout sucked

how the joystick was stupid,

how the shutter/mirror was way to loud,

etc etc etc



I just posted a comment on another thread related to this point. I think that you could go back to the time when the 1DII, or 20D, or 1DsII was introduced and take the threads and comments posted on this board and change the name of the camera in those posts to 5D, and you'd have pretty much the same posts and threads that are on the board now. Both early enthusiasm and early pessimism for any new body tend to be quite exaggerated. The reality is that there are many people who know how to take excellent pictures, and, when they get their hands on a 5D, it will help them to do so.
There are many other people, though, who, when they get their hands on a
5D, will just end up with out of focus and poorly exposed pictures with more
pixels.
Les



Aug 25, 2005 at 06:41 PM
rudiphoto
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #10 · Disappointed in the 5D


Kagetsu wrote:
And another thing, enough with the 20D bashing. People were praising it not long ago for it's affordable technology advantage, and it's supperior performance.


It happened with the D30 when the D60 came out, and again with the 10D when the 20D came out. People came out of the woodwork saying how much better their new camera was compared to their old one... (cough)bullsh!t(/cough) There are just so many tyre kickers on these forums, and some people just like having the latest, for whatever reason. I nearly threw out my 10D when the 20D came out, people were saying such bad things about it!

Well, I skipped the D60, and I skipped the 20D, but I ain't skipping the 5D! I'm sure my current 10D will understand.



Aug 26, 2005 at 12:39 AM
Kagetsu
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #11 · Disappointed in the 5D


I'm keeping my 20D, even when I get my greasy mits on my own 5D (not one borrowed from canon for a few minutes).

After trying it I can say it is a worthwhile upgrade for someone like me.



Aug 26, 2005 at 04:09 AM
EOS20
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #12 · Disappointed in the 5D


I will be keeping my 20D too when I get around to buying a 5D. I will use my 20D as my Teliphoto camera and the 5D for wide angle shooting.

I think I'll wait till the price drops down a bit before buying a 5D though.



Aug 26, 2005 at 04:24 AM
bogatyr
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #13 · Disappointed in the 5D


EOS20 wrote:
I will be keeping my 20D too when I get around to buying a 5D. I will use my 20D as my Telephoto camera and the 5D for wide angle shooting.


There is no need to drop a well functioning camera because one acquires a new. Different qualities and characteristics serve different needs.

Bogatyr



Aug 26, 2005 at 04:53 AM
EOS20
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #14 · Disappointed in the 5D


Just makes things easier, There would be no need to keep changing lenses! And the 1.6 crop serves me well to get the extra reach, But I do shoot film regularly and I would love to shoot 17mm with my 17-40 lens! I do alot of landscape photography and have been waiting for a Affordable Full framed d/SLR. I looked at the Kodak DCS 14/c But the build quality was below average.

Don't get me wrong I love my 20D! Its a awsome camera, But a Full framed camera is something I would like to have. Even If I do buy a 5D I still will be keping the 20D.



Aug 26, 2005 at 05:02 AM
Jeff
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.8 #15 · Disappointed in the 5D


John Power wrote:
Thanks Arhi. No more sleepless nights for me...


You can actually thank me; I don't think he's checking back in with his thread anymore...



Aug 26, 2005 at 09:21 AM
John Power
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #16 · Disappointed in the 5D


Thanks Jeff, you never disssappoint...


Aug 26, 2005 at 09:23 AM
Jeff
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.8 #17 · Disappointed in the 5D


John Power wrote:
Thanks Jeff, you never disssappoint...


That's disappoint to you...



Aug 26, 2005 at 09:26 AM
Jeff
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.8 #18 · Disappointed in the 5D


EOS20 wrote:
I think I'll wait till the price drops down a bit before buying a 5D though.


I've heard a lot of people saying this, and I think a lot of people are in for a very long wait before the price drops substantially. I'd guess that after a year you may save maybe $200-300. I'd personally rather use that camera for the year than 'save' a few hundred smackaroos...



Aug 26, 2005 at 09:27 AM
Pondria
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #19 · Disappointed in the 5D


Just imagine this:
When a new Lexus comes out, Corolla groups are disappointed that it is not the car that they are waiting for. When a new Camry comes out, 4Runner guys are disappointed that it is not the car that they want.

Why are we camera guys so senseless ?



Aug 26, 2005 at 10:13 AM
Hammerli
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #20 · Disappointed in the 5D


Pondria wrote:
Just imagine this:
When a new Lexus comes out, Corolla groups are disappointed that it is not the car that they are waiting for. When a new Camry comes out, 4Runner guys are disappointed that it is not the car that they want.

Why are we camera guys so senseless ?


Canon has 5 bodies, and no options. How many combinations of powertrain, body style and options do car manufacurers offer? I can buy a base Audi A4, or go to an upgraded engine model or get an S4, and I can choose a sedan or wagon based on that same body, not to mention all the other options.

Let's face it, comparitive to many products, Canon doesn't offer us a lot of body choices. How many different Manfrotto tripods are there for various uses? I understand the reasons why the manufacturers do it, but it's a lot harder to please the masses with 5 models. Imagine if Dell offered only 5 configurations of computers.



Aug 26, 2005 at 10:20 AM
1       2       3              7              9       10       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              7              9       10       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account