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Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

  
 
IlyaSnopchenko
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


The cameras, sure (though I've never used any of them, or probably even saw any of them used by anyone), but the lens lineup was such a complete pittance that it looked like intentional (self-)sabotage on Canon's part. The (univerally lauded) 32/1.4 probably only saw the light because the people in the development department scavenged enough money to send the bean counters on a vacation to Antarctica, all at once, so that something really good might be dragged through the usual barriers while they were away.

And then the system got sent to the chopping block anyway.

Edited on Sep 13, 2024 at 03:26 AM · View previous versions



Sep 12, 2024 at 12:52 PM
alundeb
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!



Out of the M cameras, only the M6II made it to me, because of the resolution.

The lenses though, were what made the system cool. The 28 macro, an incredibly small macro lens with a normal-wide field of view, totally forgotten and underrated, so much fun.
55-200 also underrated. From 55 to 135 mm it was better than the EF-S 55-250, best version.
Never got the 22 pancake myself, but that lens alone made the system for several users here.



Sep 12, 2024 at 01:10 PM
ISO1600
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


mawz wrote:
But what was actually moving in the M system?

Hint - except for maybe the 22/2, it was the kit lenses. M was not selling gangbusters to serious photographers, it was moving boxes to consumers.

At this point the top-selling M gear is largely duplicated in RF-S, except the two EVF-less bodies.



ding ding ding we have a winner!
Yep, the R100 and R50, coupled with kit zoom, 10-18 and 18-150 IMO are upgrades in every way from their direct M counterparts. RF-S *badly* needs a 22/2, and the argument could be made that a super-compact EVF-less body for LCD-vlogging should also be brought to fruition.

I had an R50 for a little bit to try it out, and it was better in every appreciable way than the M50 I had a few years ago. Not even close. I think for the pricepoint, the R100 is probably hard to beat, but i also don't see the point of it. An even cheaper R150(?) without EVF, and a little more compact, would be more unique in the lineup.

As much as I would like to see a 32/1.4 RF-S, it's so close to the 35/1.8 that I admittedly enjoy quite a bit on my R7 (and never thought much of on FF R bodies I tried it with, for some reason) that I don't see the point. It would have similar price, less macro capability, no IS, just a slight size savings and little more speed.

The 22/2 is what's missing. Fuji has a good 23/2, there are good third party 23/1.4's, but nothing compact for the RF mount yet in that range. Plus, the Sigma 23 will be what, $5-600 when available for RF? Canon could pump out plastic 22s for $199 all day and still turn a profit.




Sep 12, 2024 at 05:15 PM
Pixelpuffin
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


……””But what was actually moving in the M system?

Hint - except for maybe the 22/2, it was the kit lenses. M was not selling gangbusters “”…..


It wasn’t targeted at serious photographers
Just because you are, does not mean everyone else who wants to take a nice picture needs to invest in a R system.

It doesn’t matter now, it’s done and dusted , dead and gone!!
My argument was the replacement is a joke and is nothing other than low hanging fruit to steer newcomers towards FF.
Well it’s failed spectacularly with me.
The laugh is, I could afford to hit the buy button right now and fill my boots with whatever I fancied, but it simply does nothing for me. The R leaves me stone cold. Yes maybe it’s more advanced…just how advanced do you want it to be…it’s already verging on ridiculous as it is. Plus I have zero desire to move on with canon.

No worries, I picked up all 11models of the M camera plus a duplicate M50 along with all efm lenses plus duplicates, plus a box full of delightful Chinese primes. In fact another 5 came in a few days ago, just ordered a few more whilst stocks are available.

I love the M system, love it💕

If you love the R then that’s good news for you and other serious togs. But I’m not a serious tog, I just like to take snaps with nice quality gear. Each to their own 👍🏻



Sep 13, 2024 at 06:20 AM
chez
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!




Pixelpuffin wrote:
……””But what was actually moving in the M system?

Hint - except for maybe the 22/2, it was the kit lenses. M was not selling gangbusters “”…..

It wasn’t targeted at serious photographers
Just because you are, does not mean everyone else who wants to take a nice picture needs to invest in a R system.

It doesn’t matter now, it’s done and dusted , dead and gone!!
My argument was the replacement is a joke and is nothing other than low hanging fruit to steer newcomers towards FF.
Well it’s failed spectacularly with me.
The laugh is, I could afford to hit the
...Show more

Given that the R cameras are consistently in the top 10 selling cameras in Japan…it looks like you are in the minority here. In other words, Canon knows what most people want unlike your view that the R system is a joke.



Sep 13, 2024 at 07:34 AM
mawz
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


Pixelpuffin wrote:
My argument was the replacement is a joke and is nothing other than low hanging fruit to steer newcomers towards FF


You’re half right on this. But it applies equally to M (actually more so since M never had an R7 equivalent higher-end body or access to high-end native glass aside from the 32.)

RF-S and M are largely identical in market approach and offerings. M had the EVF-less bodies and 22/2, but otherwise the two core bodies match up directly to the R50 and R100, the zoom lineup is near-identical except M had nothing comparable to the RF100-400. Only in compact primes did M have a real advantage and those weren’t high-selling items except maybe the 22/2.

RF-S really is little more than slightly tweaked M in RF mount, with a higher-end body added and EVF-less options dropped

For the consumer, who is the target market, the only real difference is that now there is a path to FF while M was always a dead end.



Sep 13, 2024 at 07:38 AM
IlyaSnopchenko
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


I remember being really curious about the M 28mm macro - not to the point of considering getting the system, of course, as it had the markings of an evolutionary dead-end by then, though. Sadly Klaus has never gotten around to reviewing it (nor the 32mm). But the concept was pretty rad anyway - built-in LED lights? Swanky!

P.S. Interestingly enough, within the Canon Camera Museum, EOS M lenses are not a separate category from the EF lenses, but RF and all the preceding mounts are. Guess that shows how much of an afterthought the M lineup was for Canon.



Sep 13, 2024 at 08:02 AM
Pixelpuffin
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!




IlyaSnopchenko wrote:
I remember being really curious about the M 28mm macro - not to the point of considering getting the system, of course, as it had the markings of an evolutionary dead-end by then, though. Sadly Klaus has never gotten around to reviewing it (nor the 32mm). But the concept was pretty rad anyway - built-in LED lights? Swanky!

P.S. Interestingly enough, within the Canon Camera Museum, EOS M lenses are not a separate category from the EF lenses, but RF and all the preceding mounts are. Guess that shows how much of an afterthought the M lineup was for Canon.
...Show more

The LED lights of which you speak of on the ef-m 28 and also appeared on the ef-s 35. Have both, both are IS enabled. Never used the lights, always thought they were a bit gimmicky. Infact never used the 28yet, but did use the 35 on my 80d. Quite surreal, very very sharp but then the 28 is also reported to be equally as sharp.
Must give a shout out to the ef-s 60 macro, staggering good, used mine on 5diii, 6d and 6dii with 12mm ext tube. Worked flawlessly on all bodies mentioned. Much preferred it to my 100L tbh.



Sep 13, 2024 at 08:48 AM
IlyaSnopchenko
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


Yeah but the EF-s 35/2.8 came later. Was also reported to be a very good lens, and it wasn't tested by PZ/OL either.

I wonder if we're ever going to get RF-s equivalents of these, or at least the 60 macro. I'm feeling that the answer is "no".



Sep 13, 2024 at 09:13 AM
Pixelpuffin
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!




IlyaSnopchenko wrote:
Yeah but the EF-s 35/2.8 came later. Was also reported to be a very good lens, and it wasn't tested by PZ/OL either.

I wonder if we're ever going to get RF-s equivalents of these, or at least the 60 macro. I'm feeling that the answer is "no".


This is my issue with canon aps-c
I wish they’d either go all in or just quit.
It’s pathetic as it stands,



Sep 13, 2024 at 09:21 AM
 


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Jeff Nolten
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


The EF-S 35 and 60 macros are my two hold over adapted lenses. I too wish Canon would re release these in RF-S mount. They work pretty well adapted. The 60 is very nice with the R7's IBIS, makes it hand holdable. I don't think the 35's ring light a joke - it focuses so close that it would be hard not to shadow the subject any other way.

I also kept the EF-S 24 and 55-250 but they've been supplanted by the Sig 18-50 f2.8 and the RF 100-400. Both really nice lenses for going light. I still have the EF 100 L macro which I won't use often enough to replace.



Sep 13, 2024 at 09:44 AM
alundeb
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


We will see. RF-S lenses are only 2 years old, while RF lenses are 6 years old and there are still basic holes in the RF lineup.



Sep 13, 2024 at 11:00 AM
IlyaSnopchenko
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


Pixelpuffin wrote:
This is my issue with canon aps-c
I wish they’d either go all in or just quit.
It’s pathetic as it stands,


Quitting now would've been doubly incensing, don't you find. :-)



Sep 13, 2024 at 11:38 AM
mawz
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


Jeff Nolten wrote:
The EF-S 35 and 60 macros are my two hold over adapted lenses. I too wish Canon would re release these in RF-S mount. They work pretty well adapted. The 60 is very nice with the R7's IBIS, makes it hand holdable. I don't think the 35's ring light a joke - it focuses so close that it would be hard not to shadow the subject any other way.

I also kept the EF-S 24 and 55-250 but they've been supplanted by the Sig 18-50 f2.8 and the RF 100-400. Both really nice lenses for going light. I still have
...Show more

I could see the 60 coming, or the 28, but it wouldn't really make sense to offer two similarly priced 35 macros in RF mount, since we already have the RF35 IS Macro.

A pity, since the RF35 IS Macro isn't a 1 for 1 replacement for the EF-S (or vice versa)



Sep 13, 2024 at 11:53 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


If my recollection serves, both the EF-S and EF-M lens rollouts were rather slow compared to their FF offerings. As it is I think Canon has a range of RF lenses that are workable on APS-C, i.e. not too big or heavy but fairly sharp. Usually 1:2 is sufficient for casual close work so I welcome all the 1:2 - 1:3 options in RF.


Sep 13, 2024 at 01:57 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


Jeff Nolten wrote:
If my recollection serves, both the EF-S and EF-M lens rollouts were rather slow compared to their FF offerings. As it is I think Canon has a range of RF lenses that are workable on APS-C, i.e. not too big or heavy but fairly sharp. Usually 1:2 is sufficient for casual close work so I welcome all the 1:2 - 1:3 options in RF.


My recollection is the same. There were never remotely as many EFS lenses as there were EF lenses, and most of them were geared to lower cost options – with a few exceptions like the 17-55mm f/2.8, a rather good lens.



Sep 13, 2024 at 02:51 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


Yes the 17-55 f2.8 and the 15-85, my standard APS-C lens, were out fairly early in the ##D era. Both kinda large by today's standards. The 60 macro was a fairly early offering as well. I guess I was thinking more of the faster STM primes like the 22, 28, 32, 35 that filled out the system later on. Hopefully some of these sorts will eventually show up for RF-S.


Sep 13, 2024 at 03:23 PM
Tom_W
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


I think that the place where the smaller APS-C sensor is most favorable is at longer distances, situations like birding and wildlife where a super telephoto lens is needed. A 400 f/4 is a good deal less expensive than a 500 f/4, or a 600 f/4. Not to mention smaller.

Right now, my go-to for birding is the R7 with the 100-500L. Granted, I'd like something a little faster in terms of aperture, but it is a handy sized package, and no strain to carry around all day.



Sep 13, 2024 at 06:24 PM
AmbientMike
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


I like the 18-55's. It seems like on film you could get a good 28-80 maybe $175 but mostly that seems gone and Rf 24-105/4 is $1200 new, inexpensive 24-105 RF STM has issues. So it seems to have gone to aps

I often use DLO in DPP, having seen big difference, if you think another brand lens like Fuji is better, it may be, but it might just be lens corrections, too. All the manufacturers are using them, you'd think



Sep 13, 2024 at 07:44 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!


Jeff Nolten wrote:
Yes the 17-55 f2.8 and the 15-85, my standard APS-C lens, were out fairly early in the ##D era. Both kinda large by today's standards. The 60 macro was a fairly early offering as well. I guess I was thinking more of the faster STM primes like the 22, 28, 32, 35 that filled out the system later on. Hopefully some of these sorts will eventually show up for RF-S.


The 17-55 was reportedly a fine lens with performance that really was in the L lens range.

The 15-85, IIRC, was not that level of lens. (I had its predecessor, whose wide focal range I’ve forgotten, and it was not a very great lens at all. I got it back in something like 2003, when I was trying out DSLRs for the first time to see if they “had legs.” Unfortunately, using that lens I ended up with a few very beautiful shots that I could barely print at 12” x 18” size!)

I have no experience with those STM primes.

CORRECTION: Later in this thread it was pointed out that the lens I was talking about was not a 15-85mm, but an older 17-85mm EFS lens. That earlier one was a dog, but all the other reports here suggest that the newer 15-85 is a good performer. Thank you to those who caught my mistake, and I wanted to set the record straight…

Edited on Sep 14, 2024 at 03:52 PM · View previous versions



Sep 13, 2024 at 11:19 PM
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