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Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

Pixelpuffin
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

steamtrain wrote:
Look up prices of
- a used RP
- a used R6mkI
- a grey market R8

Think three years ahead.... >> we don't need aps-c for price, and the size of the R8 works fine as well.

For Sony you can slap a 70-350mm on the A7CR and have more than 24Mp. The price of that body will come down as well.

If I was budget limited needing a crop camera system immediately, I would definitely buy used M stuff. The full frame RF primes are too expensive for their equivalent apertures, and the crop primes will have to...Show more →

I do have the RP albeit with scratched sensor. Did fancy the R8 but read the shutter is fully electronic ? A few seem to moan about it on other forums. Tbf, I’m impressed with the RP, find it nicer than the M6ii, they are both about as cutting edge as I currently own 😂👍🏻

My initial plan was to buy a aps-c R body and use it exclusively with my 16, 28, 50 and 85 rf primes. In theory that would give me the FF equivalent of 25, 45, 80 and 135. Which I admit sounds great. But the lack of pop up flash or lack of old style hot shoe.. only the R100 has both? But that model is then limited to a single control wheel. I can manage without the flippy screen but admit touch screen would have been nice to change settings on the fly.
But as we all know with canon, they deliberately take stuff away to force you to go higher up.
So at present I’m in a quandary, currently using the RP in crop mode with those lenses listed above wide open to blur out the scratched sensor.

Canon is now really expensive for what it offers. So I find myself drifting back to either DSLRs or my canon M stuff.

Sep 08, 2024 at 06:21 AM

IlyaSnopchenko
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

Pixelpuffin wrote:
Do you have a link for the 16,30 & 56 please?
Just googled and all I’m seeing is the older ef-m. Seen the RF 18-50/2.8, will go back and read up, but nothing on the other 3 primes.

I think they're not exactly out on the market yet, just announced as coming in the future. They were in the original Sigma/RF announcement. But they're supposed to be coming this fall.

Sep 08, 2024 at 06:31 AM

Pixelpuffin
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

IlyaSnopchenko wrote:
I think they're not exactly out on the market yet, just announced as coming in the future. They were in the original Sigma/RF announcement. But they're supposed to be coming this fall.

Ah
That explains it
Thanks for reporting back 👍🏻

Sep 08, 2024 at 06:54 AM

IlyaSnopchenko
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

Don't forget there's the 23/1.4 prime in the pipeline as well.

Sep 08, 2024 at 08:28 AM

Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

steamtrain wrote:
A used RP is 550 euro, and a 50mm Stm (new) is 220 euro. The R8 will cost next to nothing within 3 or 4 years. The RF 24-105mm stm is affordable as well, while it outperforms all the crop zooms.

I tried the RF 24-105 STM on my R5 to save weight and for its closer focus. Maybe I got a bad copy but it didn't' compare well with the RF 24-105 L. However, in my limited use so far, the Sigma 18-50 f2.8 on R7 does compare well to the 24-105 L on FF. Purists will disagree but for less perfectionist work the combo produces lovely images, better than I'd get with the 24-105 STM. IMHO. The R7 + 18-50 is fairly compact and weighs just 2 lbs. It was perfect for use at San Diego's crowded ComicCon both for cosplay portraiture and landscapes of San Diego bay outside. I'll be taking it on a Columbia River cruise next month and do some direct comparisons with the R5 + 24-105 L.

I hope the Sig 10-18 is available by then so I can test it too. It's currently available for preorder and in the hands of some reviewers.

My R5 minimalist kit weighs 5.5 lbs and the R7 kit would weigh 4 lbs. Wish the 18-50 was 15-50 but. R10 users might notice the lack of stabilization. Don't get me wrong APS-C isn't replacing FF in my use but its a nice alternative.

Sep 08, 2024 at 10:46 AM

steamtrain
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

Jeff Nolten wrote:
I tried the RF 24-105 STM on my R5 to save weight and for its closer focus. Maybe I got a bad copy but it didn't' compare well with the RF 24-105 L. However, in my limited use so far, the Sigma 18-50 f2.8 on R7 does compare well to the 24-105 L on FF. Purists will disagree but for less perfectionist work the combo produces lovely images, better than I'd get with the 24-105 STM. IMHO. The R7 + 18-50 is fairly compact and weighs just 2 lbs. It was perfect for use at San Diego's crowded ComicCon...Show more →

O.k., I'm willing to give that Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 some credits.

R50 = 830 euro, Sigma 18-50mm = 550 euro.... o.k. that's decent value for money, although there's no 24mm equivalent (it starts at 29) and it ends at 80mm equivalent, and there's no IS with that combination. Once you have to factor in the price of the R7 I would rather go 24-105mm f/4.0 L + a used RP.

Sep 08, 2024 at 11:52 AM

Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

Ok, not arguing best overall solution. I already have R7 and R5 kits so the Sigma additions are nice for an existing R7 which is my wife's camera when we're traveling together. You might want to try the 24-105 STM on the RP as I think it a better weight match and might meet your needs. Several posters here are pleased with their STMs. Both B&H and MBP have good return policies if you are buying used.

Sep 08, 2024 at 12:02 PM

Pixelpuffin
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

Jeff Nolten wrote:
Ok, not arguing best overall solution. I already have R7 and R5 kits so the Sigma additions are nice for an existing R7 which is my wife's camera when we're traveling together. You might want to try the 24-105 STM on the RP as I think it a better weight match and might meet your needs. Several posters here are pleased with their STMs. Both B&H and MBP have good return policies if you are buying used.

I bought the 24-105 stm, but after trying it in the garden I stored it away. Yep, sharpness was fine, it was the 7.1 max aperture that pushed my iso up I couldn’t accept. I’m sure as a holiday camera, someplace sunny and warm it will be great. But here in damp cold dark England it’s the wrong lens for sure.

Sep 08, 2024 at 12:57 PM

steamtrain
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

Pixelpuffin wrote:
I bought the 24-105 stm, but after trying it in the garden I stored it away. Yep, sharpness was fine, it was the 7.1 max aperture that pushed my iso up I couldn’t accept.

The best way to solve that problem is using the R8 in stead of the RP. A modern full frame body doesn't have problems with higher ISO values.

Pixelpuffin wrote:
I’m sure as a holiday camera, someplace sunny and warm it will be great. But here in damp cold dark England it’s the wrong lens for sure.

I'm shooting my 24-70mm f/2.8 a lot at f/7.1.

Sep 08, 2024 at 01:18 PM

ISO1600
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

gdanmitchell wrote:
Unless they want to compete with Fujifilm — who have a very extensive set of purely APS-C lenses — at this point I don’t think Canon is going to give you what you want.

Back in the early days many people simply could not afford full frame, including serious photographers. So there were more lenses for these systems, including a few pretty good ones like the 16-55mm f/2.8. (Hope I’m identifying that one correctly.)

This is mostly true, and got me thinking- I bought a 20D brand new in 2004. Adjusted for inflation, that's a $2500 camera today, isn't that MSRP on the R6II? We've come a long way!!!

In 2004 I don't think there were hardly any crop-optimised lenses, beyond maybe an 18-55? I am pretty sure the kit zooms were still 28-135 IS at the time lol.

Sep 08, 2024 at 10:39 PM

EB-1
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

The 17-55/2.8 in 2006 was the first high grade (not L) EF-S lens that I can recall.
However, the 1.6x system was never considered to be the good stuff, just the entry level into digital for film migration in the early 2000s. The 1D and 1Ds and subsequent models were the high-grade bodies until the 5D was introduced as a mid-grade option. I had a 20D/30D/50D before the 7D, which was the first Canon 1.6x body that provided advanced performance for the time. A high percentage of 1.6x cropper users were seeking reach, especially those using the 7D.

EBH

Sep 08, 2024 at 11:01 PM

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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

Threads like this are always really good at making me question my own thought process.

For the most part I've long been a full-frame fanatic. I've done a few vacations in Fuji land, and recently jumped over to R7 and I'm enjoying it- but I think it really points out how the lens choices should be taken into account very heavily when deciding what system to invest in.

If you want good small primes for a crop system, and want them to be first-party, Fuji is arguably the only game in town. Sony has some offerings but not as much. Even then, many of the newer Fuji lenses aren't as small as they used to be. Dollar-for-dollar (*at MSRP*) Fuji is such an amazing system, but supply chain issues and tiktok trends have really put a damper on that. A proper XE5 could honestly pull me back to Fuji, either for that camera or an XE4 at reasonable prices again?

Sep 08, 2024 at 11:04 PM

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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

EB-1 wrote:
The 17-55/2.8 in 2006 was the first high grade (not L) EF-S lens that I can recall.
However, the 1.6x system was never considered to be the good stuff, just the entry level into digital for film migration in the early 2000s. The 1D and 1Ds and subsequent models were the high-grade bodies until the 5D was introduced as a mid-grade option. I had a 20D/30D/50D before the 7D, which was the first Canon 1.6x body that provided advanced performance for the time. A high percentage of 1.6x cropper users were seeking reach, especially those using the 7D.

EBH

Yes and the 1D cameras were insanely expensive, IIRC $8k each at launch typically, and that's in 200X dollars. If a "normal person"/hobbyist wanted a DSLR in the early 2000s, they either spent money they didn't have or they bought crop or an old model (which had RAPIDLY depreciated).

Sep 08, 2024 at 11:09 PM

EB-1
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

I made some poor choices buying all those 1Ds series that are useless now. But they produced the best IQ you could get until the 5DsR.

It seems to me that Canon significantly bypassed the serious cropper use by producing the slow, medium priced RF FF lenses. Nikon has noticeably done the same and doesn't even have the equivalent of the R7. I have no experience with Fuji X, but that's a logical choice in APS-C croppers.

EBH

Sep 08, 2024 at 11:16 PM

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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

The equivalent to the R7 in most the other systems is just a cheaper but still great FF body... that Canon does not offer.

I *really* like the R7 and how it is working for me, but it's an expensive body for what it is, and the very niche use cases where it shines. Similar money could get an awesome Fuji setup, although their tele options are limited- I don't think anybody has a solid competitor to the RF 100-400 (size+price). ~$1000 could get any number of used Sony bodies and give me a massive lens selection to choose from, but I prefer Canon ergos and to a lesser extent the "canon look".

Part of the equation for me was a hoped/planned purchase of an Aquatech housing, which exists for all the serious Canon R bodies, most the Fuji/Sony/Nikon as well, but specifically leaves out the RP/R8, Fuji XE, and Sony A7C(R) bodies.... I got the Aquatech for my R7 and it's been great, but I wish it had been available for literally any of those other bodies.

Sep 08, 2024 at 11:35 PM

EB-1
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

Canon finally has a backwards, stackable sensor in the R5 II, so one can hope for the same in the "R7 II." If they could just squeeze in one CFe slot and remove that goofy little control ring it would be great.

EBH

Sep 08, 2024 at 11:39 PM

ISO1600
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

I definitely understand why people wouldn't like it (inconsistent with the rest of the bodies), but I love the control ring lol.

Sep 09, 2024 at 12:16 AM

sirimiri
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

ISO1600 wrote:
... I've done a few vacations in Fuji land...

Haha, well put - when we sojourn a few seasons with a different manufacturer...

Sep 09, 2024 at 12:25 AM

AmbientMike
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

ISO1600 wrote:
The equivalent to the R7 in most the other systems is just a cheaper but still great FF body... that Canon does not offer.

I *really* like the R7 and how it is working for me, but it's an expensive body for what it is, and the very niche use cases where it shines. Similar money could get an awesome Fuji setup, although their tele options are limited- I don't think anybody has a solid competitor to the RF 100-400 (size+price). ~$1000 could get any number of used Sony bodies and give me a massive lens selection to choose from,...Show more →

The R8 is lighter and even cheaper vs at least some, and maybe most of the Fuji options. X-T5 is $1700, a6700 isn't cheap either, R7 really not out of line at all price wise.

Sep 09, 2024 at 12:37 AM

AmbientMike
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Canon aps-c roll out a joke!!

Canon finally OKd 3rd party lenses, and it's stuff that I believe is available in Fuji already. That and very lightweight bodies has me thinking they're going to be competing with Fuji more directly and have seen fujis success. Of course Canon has more lenses overall

Sep 09, 2024 at 12:45 AM

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