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R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

rscheffler
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

docusync wrote:
When I started shooting the first game I kept forgetting about the magical zoom ring, but after 10-15 minutes I started developing a "zoom habit". By the end of the second game I could not imagine my life without the zoom ring. 300mm is enough for the side lines and a little short for the end lines. I had to use the 1.4x TC for the entire second game since I moved to the end line. Everything that I wanted outside of 420mm could be easily achievable by cropping.

Great expressions in many of the photos!

Unless I was in near perpetual reach limited situations I don't think I'll ever go back to a prime super-tele. While those have the ultimate 'look' with cleaner backgrounds and are possibly slightly sharper in the plane of focus, if you need a variety of images from a range of distances, a zoom like the 100-300 is so much more versatile (and helps makes you much more productive). This was very much my experience when I switched from 400 & 600 primes covering field sports to the 200-400. I did miss the 'look' of the primes slightly, but gained so much more being able to get the images in the big gap between the 70-200 and 400. And with the improved high ISO performance of Canon's cameras starting with the 1DX, losing a stop wasn't enough of a penalty (at 'pro' venues) to offset the additional flexibility of the zoom.

From my brief experience with the 100-300 (some football and hockey), image quality is certainly at prime levels, so don't think there is much, if any, technical loss in quality. As amazingly small and light as the Sony 300/2.8 is, I am so glad Canon decided to make a zoom instead of a prime. I'm keeping my hopes up for a 200-500/4 because I think it will suit my overall needs better than the 100-300.

I also wanted to add that once the play is past mid-field, it's not going to look any better with a longer lens because of the basic fact that the subject is so much closer to the background, resulting in significant loss of separation.

Sep 02, 2024 at 10:57 AM

docusync
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

rscheffler wrote:
Great expressions in many of the photos!

Sep 02, 2024 at 07:48 PM

bernardl
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

I wonder why Canon would equip the 200-500mm f4 with a TC after having not included on on the 100-300mm f2.8?

Sep 04, 2024 at 03:14 PM

docusync
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

bernardl wrote:
I wonder why Canon would equip the 200-500mm f4 with a TC after having not included on on the 100-300mm f2.8?

That's a good question... To keep the good tradition alive? Maybe also to differentiate it further from the midrange 100-300. I don't know... just wishful thinking. I wish the 100-300 would have a TC as well.

We'll see what Nikon is going to make next. I won't be surprised if it will be a 120-300 zoom with a TC "to rule them all"

Sep 04, 2024 at 05:51 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

bernardl wrote:
I wonder why Canon would equip the 200-500mm f4 with a TC after having not included on on the 100-300mm f2.8?

They won't so that all the Nikon fanboys can keep posting about it in the Canon forums.

If you read the interview on the Canon Japan site with the team responsible for developing the 100-300, they stated they considered an internal TC design but the tradeoff was increased size, weight, complexity and cost. Maybe for the target market of this lens, it being an 'intermediate' telephoto, the conclusion was that photographers requiring greater reach will already have a longer lens to complement this one? A lens like a 200-500 will probably see more use in reach-limited scenarios where an internal TC would be advantageous. Such a lens will also already be physically fairly large/long and adding ~1.5" more length for an internal TC might be seen as a more acceptable tradeoff. As you know, I would prefer an internal TC option in such a lens. But if it didn't happen, I'd still consider it because as a zoom it will already be much more versatile than a prime, and for many of my uses, wouldn't be reach limited (whereas the 100-300 is for the field sports I photograph).

Sep 04, 2024 at 09:25 PM

bernardl
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

docusync wrote:
That's a good question... To keep the good tradition alive? Maybe also to differentiate it further from the midrange 100-300. I don't know... just wishful thinking. I wish the 100-300 would have a TC as well.

We'll see what Nikon is going to make next. I won't be surprised if it will be a 120-300 zoom with a TC "to rule them all"

The most logical would be a trio of:
- 100-200mm f2.0 TC
- 100-300mm f2.8 TC
- 200-500mm f4 TC

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't come up with that, possibly with double magnification TCs (switch left for x1.4 and right for x2), but we shall see.

Cheers,
Bernard

Sep 05, 2024 at 07:59 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

I'm still waiting for a 200/1.4, which with TCs would cover 280/2.0 and 400/2.8.

Sep 05, 2024 at 08:19 PM

docusync
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

rscheffler wrote:
I'm still waiting for a 200/1.4, which with TCs would cover 280/2.0 and 400/2.8.

That would be too easy. Our response to Nikon should be no less than a 100-200/0.95 TC Macro 5:1 with a switchable DS effect.

Sep 05, 2024 at 09:18 PM

Caleb Williams
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

rscheffler wrote:
I'm still waiting for a 200/1.4, which with TCs would cover 280/2.0 and 400/2.8.

There's a Nikon 300mm f/2 on eBay for $23k. Perhaps it can be converted to RF. Not sure about adding Autofocus.

Sep 05, 2024 at 10:45 PM

Hathaway
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

Thank you, it's my favorite too! I did share the whole gallery with parents.
Those 10 y.o. girls are ferocious soccer players. I haven't seen this level of aggressiveness from the older MLS Next boys teams

My daughter and granddaughters play soccer. I always said the young men they hired to referee these matches never understood how physical the girl's game can be. I had all sorts of theories why, but it always came down to so much more fouling in the girl's game that was rarely or never called.

They are tough cookies. We had my teenage daughter play sweeper in our coed league and she would routinely take men out twice her size. She was a lethal enforcer.

Amazing photos and I bet it took hours to go through all those images with a 99% keeper rate! At least in the old days you could get rid of half or more that were out of focus.

Sep 06, 2024 at 01:55 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

rscheffler wrote:
I'm still waiting for a 200/1.4, which with TCs would cover 280/2.0 and 400/2.8.

Caleb Williams wrote:
There's a Nikon 300mm f/2 on eBay for $23k. Perhaps it can be converted to RF. Not sure about adding Autofocus.

In theory a 200/1.4 would be the same front element size of a 400/2.8, so optically not that outrageous to manufacture, and Canon already had the EF 200/1.8 30 years ago. But given the speed, probably requires higher manufacturing precision and tighter tolerances, which should be doable nowadays.

Hathaway wrote:
My daughter and granddaughters play soccer. I always said the young men they hired to referee these matches never understood how physical the girl's game can be. I had all sorts of theories why, but it always came down to so much more fouling in the girl's game that was rarely or never called.

They are tough cookies. We had my teenage daughter play sweeper in our coed league and she would routinely take men out twice her size. She was a lethal enforcer.

Amazing photos and I bet it took hours to go through all those images with a...Show more →

IMO it's actually easier to edit because you just browse the thumbnails to pick out the very best and they're almost always in focus.

As for the observations about girls soccer, you should see competitive level full-contact girls' hockey!

Sep 06, 2024 at 03:50 PM

Caleb Williams
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

rscheffler wrote:
In theory a 200/1.4 would be the same front element size of a 400/2.8, so optically not that outrageous to manufacture, and Canon already had the EF 200/1.8 30 years ago. But given the speed, probably requires higher manufacturing precision and tighter tolerances, which should be doable nowadays.

You hear that Canon? Get on a modern RF 200mm f/1.4! (I would be happy with 400mm f/2 as well.)

Sep 06, 2024 at 04:05 PM

docusync
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

rscheffler wrote:
In theory a 200/1.4 would be the same front element size of a 400/2.8, so optically not that outrageous to manufacture, and Canon already had the EF 200/1.8 30 years ago. But given the speed, probably requires higher manufacturing precision and tighter tolerances, which should be doable nowadays.

IMO it's actually easier to edit because you just browse the thumbnails to pick out the very best and they're almost always in focus.

As for the observations about girls soccer, you should see competitive level full-contact girls' hockey!

Ron, I thought you were joking about the 200/1.4. No way this lens will ever materialize. Yes, it will be the size of a typical 400/2.8 just shorter. Same size entrance pupil though. Same $12k price or more since it would be a really niche lens.

The problem with the thumbnails - they are in focus, guaranteed, but now you have to find which one you like the best. There's not much difference between them (30 fps!).
This is much harder to do than to reject everything that's out of focus, and then you get three that are in focus, and you can definitely pick the best one because the other two are garbage.

I never saw girls hockey, but I think I can arrange that - my friend's daughter plays. That would be interesting to watch and take some pictures. I'm curious to see how face recognition works with helmets.

Sep 06, 2024 at 09:32 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

test. (this thread should be working normally now)

Sep 08, 2024 at 10:31 AM

docusync
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

Fred Miranda wrote:
test. (this thread should be working normally now)

Thank you for fixing it, Fred!

Sep 08, 2024 at 10:40 AM

rscheffler
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · R5II + 100-300 = Ultimate field sports combo [image heavy]

docusync wrote:
Ron, I thought you were joking about the 200/1.4. No way this lens will ever materialize. Yes, it will be the size of a typical 400/2.8 just shorter. Same size entrance pupil though. Same $12k price or more since it would be a really niche lens.

The problem with the thumbnails - they are in focus, guaranteed, but now you have to find which one you like the best. There's not much difference between them (30 fps!).
This is much harder to do than to reject everything that's out of focus, and then you get three that are in focus, and...Show more →

I was mostly joking. I can't envision any rational, realistic need for such a lens other than as a halo product to show off a manufacturer's capabilities. Modern cameras/sensors are very good now at high ISOs, to the point where one can easily get by with f/4 or f/2.8 in most situations. But if such a lens existed, for sure I'd want to use it from time to time through CPS.

If you're not seeing a lot of frame to frame difference at 30fps, maybe dial it back to 20? I make thumbnails fairly large in my culling app of choice so that I can better evaluate things like expressions without needing to view individual full-screen previews until the choice has been sufficiently narrowed down. I also find that if I need to be able to quickly find specific images among thousands from a game, it helps tremendously if I 'chimp' between plays and tag/lock the key images. At the least this lets me find those general plays quickly when on the computer where I can then decide whether or not I chose the best ones in-camera. I recently did this covering motorcycle racing, where I'd shoot maybe 2-3 thousand images per race but needed to turnaround 20-30 for a post-race gallery within a short time after the each race. I'd tag key moments like lead changes, crashes, victory celebrations, etc., isolate those in the culling software and pull the best for the gallery, ignoring the rest for later, more in-depth review (inevitably there will be good images that are initially missed this way, but if in a rush, good enough is usually good enough

).

At least with the R6II, subject recognition/tracking works pretty well at quickly zeroing in on heads/helmets during hockey games, but when there are multiple players in the scene from the same team wearing the same color helmets and crisscrossing in front or behind the player you want to follow, it can often switch to another person. Perhaps the R5II will be better in this regard because of newer algorithms and more powerful processors? As for actual recognition of a registered face, I'm not sure if or how well that will work with headgear such as helmets.

Sep 08, 2024 at 01:18 PM

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