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R5II for football

  
 
Cduff406
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · R5II for football


I'm gearing up to start some football (the American style) shooting this fall. I'm wondering if anyone has tried any of the action priority settings for football? I think they are designed for soccer, basketball, and volleyball. I"m just curious any any of them show any improvement in autofocus for football. Anyone had a chance to try yet?


Aug 26, 2024 at 03:50 PM
Pixelpuffin
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · R5II for football


Lol
I’m still using the archaic 5diii for football and it constantly delivers… the R5ii is way overkill, it’ll track it with its eyes shut…and so it should!!
😂👍🏻

Edited on Aug 27, 2024 at 11:44 AM · View previous versions



Aug 27, 2024 at 11:40 AM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · R5II for football


If you can't use the R5II for football, even without fancy new modes, just give it up


Aug 27, 2024 at 11:41 AM
Pixelpuffin
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · R5II for football


Actually…
Maybe you should consider the R1 instead? just to be sure… you really don’t want to miss that killer shot. You could always relegate the R5/2 as a back up body…should suffice.
🙄



Aug 27, 2024 at 11:52 AM
pulper11
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · R5II for football


I don't think the OP is asking if the R5ii can be used for football. Although the responses so far seem to be addressing that question, my reading of the post is that the OP is not asking that in any way. He/She is asking if the new AF modes that specialize in the listed three sports can be helpful in AF for football too. A very fair question. I don't know about others but I like to benefit from technology if I can (so long as I can afford it).


Aug 27, 2024 at 01:52 PM
 


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rscheffler
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · R5II for football


pulper11 wrote:
I don't think the OP is asking if the R5ii can be used for football. Although the responses so far seem to be addressing that question, my reading of the post is that the OP is not asking that in any way. He/She is asking if the new AF modes that specialize in the listed three sports can be helpful in AF for football too. A very fair question. I don't know about others but I like to benefit from technology if I can (so long as I can afford it).


I agree! My concern with this new feature/capability is: how easy is it to override when it inevitably makes the wrong decision? Maybe it'll be best to be configured like I do for basic subject detection by putting it on a specific button to activate/deactivate.



Aug 27, 2024 at 02:01 PM
docusync
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · R5II for football


rscheffler wrote:
I agree! My concern with this new feature/capability is: how easy is it to override when it inevitably makes the wrong decision? Maybe it'll be best to be configured like I do for basic subject detection by putting it on a specific button to activate/deactivate.


Not easy

The technology is great if you want to shoot the entire game, no matter who possesses the ball. Basically, the camera is doing everything for you, and we'll probably see the successor pressing the shutter for you as well.

For my use case I wanted to be focused on a particular player, or a particular team at least. It didn't work unfortunately. It automatically selects the player it "thinks" closer to the ball. Even when my player kicks the ball out - the focus is switching away from the face pretty much instantly. I wish it stayed a little longer on the player though.

Below is an example (direct export, unprocessed, uncropped), 3 consecutive frames shot at 30 fps. The camera switched 3 faces between those 3 frames while trying to decide who's closer to the incoming ball. Each "target" face is perfectly sharp but I needed focus to stay on the right maroon girl

Maroon right:





White left:





Maroon left:







The good news - it works great even without this fancy Action priority mode, the hit rate is close to 100%.

As far as I understand it, the Action priority mode is just another tool like the Eye-controlled AF. In this case you don't even need to bother controlling the camera with your eye, it'll make decisions for you. So it's like a point-and-shoot on some serious steroids


@Cduff406@ The camera doesn't currently support the gridiron style ball. It's limited to the round kind (soccer/basketball/volleyball). I don't see a reason why Canon wouldn't add American football in the future. The ball is big enough to be comfortably detected and tracked by ML algorithms, plus it has a very distinct shape.



Aug 27, 2024 at 05:06 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · R5II for football


rscheffler wrote:
I agree! My concern with this new feature/capability is: how easy is it to override when it inevitably makes the wrong decision? Maybe it'll be best to be configured like I do for basic subject detection by putting it on a specific button to activate/deactivate.

docusync wrote:
Not easy

The technology is great if you want to shoot the entire game, no matter who possesses the ball. Basically, the camera is doing everything for you, and we'll probably see the successor pressing the shutter for you as well.


With American football there are times when the ball is not that obvious in the frame, like a RB embracing it in both arms while barreling through a gap in the line, or a WR running across the frame carrying the ball in the arm on the far side of the body where it is momentarily blocked from view at certain points in stride. It also changes tone/color when wet. Therefore American football could present more challenges for the system to consistently recognize the ball. But it could also be very useful in situations like a fumble, Hail Mary or onside kick where it can often be difficult to pinpoint who is closest to the ball among the chaos. This is a reason why I'd like a quick way of turning it on and off.

As for the camera taking the photos for you, I could see an implementation where it is in a kind of continuous pre-capture mode, analyzing the images in realtime, saving only those it considers the best moments. What is likely inevitable is more sophisticated implementation of what Canon is rolling out to analyze image sharpness, currently only in very specific scenarios (recognizable people photos). It could be cloud-linked AI that analyzes image content and selects the best from a specific sequence, or everything on the card. I currently don't have confidence that something like this won't miss less obvious key moments. But on the other hand, would welcome having an event already culled right after the last image is taken. Or a video already assembled in rough-cut from the best clips.




Aug 27, 2024 at 07:15 PM
docusync
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · R5II for football


rscheffler wrote:
As for the camera taking the photos for you, I could see an implementation where it is in a kind of continuous pre-capture mode, analyzing the images in realtime, saving only those it considers the best moments. What is likely inevitable is more sophisticated implementation of what Canon is rolling out to analyze image sharpness, currently only in very specific scenarios (recognizable people photos). It could be cloud-linked AI that analyzes image content and selects the best from a specific sequence, or everything on the card. I currently don't have confidence that something like this won't miss less obvious key
...Show more

I don't like the idea if someone or something will be taking pictures and analyzing them for me. It will be basically stealing all my joy. It's a hard NO



Aug 27, 2024 at 07:46 PM
Mike Jacks0n
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · R5II for football


I don't think the Action Priority mode will be useful for football. Considering it uses the ball a lot in its calculations, and a football isn't recognized. But its human AF detection is probably second to none. So, I'm feeling like it will do well, but haven't shot any games/scrimmages. I am a little anxious to see how it deals with a full face helmet and whether it can maintain the stickiness. However, since the R1 uses lots of the same logic, I can't imagine Canon let a sports camera out the door that can't deal with the most important sport in the US. I can't even imagine the backlash that would create. So I'm pretty confident they did their homework on that.

I suspect the PRE capture is going to change things as well, but less so in football. You can generally anticipate football pretty easily.

On the argument about it being too easy, its been that way since the A9 for Sony users and the R5 for Canon. If that bugs you, you might be in the wrong place. Manufacturers are not going to stop making them easier to use. You, along with all of us, will have to figure out how to use our vision to differentiate ourselves... of course, only if that maters to you.



Aug 30, 2024 at 11:40 AM







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