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My thoughts after spending some time at a camera store - Canon Edition

lsquare
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · My thoughts after spending some time at a camera store - Canon Edition

I hope everyone had an awesome Saturday. I was at a camera store playing with Canon, Fujifilm, Nikon, and Sony gear today. I've learned a lot through the discussions here recently. However, nothing beats picking up and feeling the different bodies and lenses.

I can't help but not think why Canon's bodies and lenses are so big. I think mirrorless cameras should be lighter and smaller. I like Sony's approach. Having said that, I did play around with the R5, 85mm f/1.2 L, 14-35mm f/4, and the R8. The R8 felt pretty nice in my hands, but the build quality seems lower than Sony's a7CR. Of course, both cameras are priced very differently. The lenses felt nice and looked very high quality. Yet, that 85mm f/1.2 is very heavy! I really hope Canon will release a higher-quality version of the R8 but with the R5 II's sensor. That will make a very nice travel camera. Canon should also consider releasing L-series lenses that are designed for travel.

Aug 25, 2024 at 05:35 AM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · My thoughts after spending some time at a camera store - Canon Edition

Not disagreeing with you but I have a R5 (R5ii now too) and R8. I target landscape and wildlife printed at 48x32"

On the tripod, the R5 is better than the r8 for landscape, but off they are pretty even given handshake. I don't find the ibis helpful because in the dark I use tripod, and for wildlife my big whites have IS and I keep the ss up to avoid motion blur.

For landscape, RF16, RF 15-30 sum, RF28, RF 24-105 - are really light and inexpensive, and I would challenge you to do better at f8 on R8, vs L's on R5. The L's outperform the STM's but only wide open, on edges on the tripod with a 45mpx camera.

I have the RF-100-400 and again, from the car, if you fill the screen with a grizzly bear in reasonable light, aside from the bokeh (with the downside of too tight dof), it does really well. Yes I prefer my 200-400 or 200-800 or 600f4, but for travel or in the car close in for moderately good light, it is really nice.

I think most people who poo poo the RF STM's sometimes forget that with ND's at f8 on the tripod, they are very close. I bought my R8 for backpacking to keep the weight down. It resulted in a very light tripod be viable. And combined with 16/2.8 and 24-105 STM, a kit under 2lbs. Combined with my 1lbs bivy, 3 sided quilt, light pad - I go further and find better more interesting locations.

But when I am near the car, on my tripod, its EF TS (15, 17, 24, 90) lens and my 24-105L, with my variable ND adapter because ND's are so important near water for me, and I hate bent trees.

Eg for me, function wins over IQ, and L's are only helpful for near car shooting.

Aug 25, 2024 at 11:21 AM

RoamingScott
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · My thoughts after spending some time at a camera store - Canon Edition

After 8-12 hours in the field with Sony cameras, my hands always felt crampy from the size. I appreciated the size and weight in my pack, though!

I tend to have the opposite feeling with larger, more ergonomic options...they just feel more natural and are better for extended use. Puts more strain on the back and legs long term though, so just hit the gym =)

Aug 25, 2024 at 11:29 AM

Mike_5D
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · My thoughts after spending some time at a camera store - Canon Edition

RoamingScott wrote:
After 8-12 hours in the field with Sony cameras, my hands always felt crampy from the size. I appreciated the size and weight in my pack, though!

I tend to have the opposite feeling with larger, more ergonomic options...they just feel more natural and are better for extended use. Puts more strain on the back and legs long term though, so just hit the gym =)

I remember when I first got a Fuji XT-1. Sure, it was a lot smaller than the 5D3 I had at the time, but it cramped my hand. The large grip on the Canon fits the natural position of my relaxed hand. A small body requires more grip force, particularly on the finger tips. And some these small mirrorless bodies aren't particularly light either. Ironically, the smaller bodies with little to no grip are two-handed cameras more so than the larger bodies.

Aug 25, 2024 at 01:40 PM

lsquare
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · My thoughts after spending some time at a camera store - Canon Edition

Scott Stoness wrote:
Not disagreeing with you but I have a R5 (R5ii now too) and R8. I target landscape and wildlife printed at 48x32"

On the tripod, the R5 is better than the r8 for landscape, but off they are pretty even given handshake. I don't find the ibis helpful because in the dark I use tripod, and for wildlife my big whites have IS and I keep the ss up to avoid motion blur.

For landscape, RF16, RF 15-30 sum, RF28, RF 24-105 - are really light and inexpensive, and I would challenge you to do better at f8 on R8, vs...Show more →

Why would the R5 be any better than the R8 on a tripod?

Aug 25, 2024 at 06:06 PM

lsquare
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · My thoughts after spending some time at a camera store - Canon Edition

Mike_5D wrote:
I remember when I first got a Fuji XT-1. Sure, it was a lot smaller than the 5D3 I had at the time, but it cramped my hand. The large grip on the Canon fits the natural position of my relaxed hand. A small body requires more grip force, particularly on the finger tips. And some these small mirrorless bodies aren't particularly light either. Ironically, the smaller bodies with little to no grip are two-handed cameras more so than the larger bodies.

Isn't that the point of a strap?

Aug 25, 2024 at 06:07 PM

RoamingScott
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · My thoughts after spending some time at a camera store - Canon Edition

lol what

lsquare wrote:
Isn't that the point of a strap?

Aug 25, 2024 at 06:27 PM

jedibrain
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · My thoughts after spending some time at a camera store - Canon Edition

lsquare wrote:
Isn't that the point of a strap?

Not unless you have a strap that suspends the camera in front of your face!

Size is always personal, and always a tradeoff. I have an m6mkII for travel, and love it for its small size that allows me to take it places I would not or could not take a full sized camera. But it is Hella uncomfortable to use for long periods.

The R3 I just rented is so comfortable, the best ever. But large and heavy if I were to tke it hiking.

Sony bodies are on the small side for my hand. The R5 sized body is a nice compromise.

Fast and well corrected glass is by necessity heavy and often large. Math and physics limit how small that 85 1.2 can be. Different systems can make different choices of flange diameter, back focus distance and image circle size to move the needle a bit. But L quality travel glass will still be bigger and heavier than slower non L travel glass. Sad for all of us!

Brian

Aug 25, 2024 at 06:53 PM

lsquare
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · My thoughts after spending some time at a camera store - Canon Edition

RoamingScott wrote:
lol what

A camera strap?

Aug 25, 2024 at 07:03 PM

Mike_5D
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · My thoughts after spending some time at a camera store - Canon Edition

lsquare wrote:
Why would the R5 be any better than the R8 on a tripod?

Higher resolution especially when you take camera shake out of the equation.

Aug 25, 2024 at 07:45 PM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · My thoughts after spending some time at a camera store - Canon Edition

It depends on which cameras and lenses

Did you try the 50/1.8 & 28/2.8 on the R8? Or the R100? Even the ff R8 is very competitive and lighter than a lot of the Fuji aps.

Of course if you tried a top performance fast lens it's heavy. You can try my old 85/1.4 Rokinon, it's much lighter but probably not as good at 1.2. Yes, if you buy fast heavy lenses Canon or any other manufacturer makes heavy cameras and lenses

Aug 25, 2024 at 08:16 PM

melcat
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · My thoughts after spending some time at a camera store - Canon Edition

To me, travel lenses and bodies should be weather sealed. That rules out many of Canon’s smaller and lighter lenses. The RF 70–200mm f/4 is a good travel lens, but the f/4 wide and standard RF zooms aren’t as good as their EF predecessors, indeed there’s still no RF 24–70mm f/4. The RF 100–500 is compact and light if you do need that focal length, much more so than the Sony 200–600, so in that sense it’s a good travel lens.

Meanwhile, Sony’s Mk II f/2.8 wide and normal zooms are about the same size and weight as Canon’s f/4.

I don’t travel with primes any more and probably most people don’t, so don’t hold your breath for small high-quality moderate-aperture primes with weather sealing from Canon.

Aug 25, 2024 at 09:42 PM

DougVaughn
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · My thoughts after spending some time at a camera store - Canon Edition

melcat wrote:
indeed there’s still no RF 24–70mm f/4.

That's the lens I'd like to see in RF. We have the EF version (my wife uses it), and the quality is excellent all around. At f/8 for landscapes, I doubt you'd see much if any difference from my 24-70 f/2.8. And, it's so much smaller and lighter (if you didn't have to account for the adapter).

Aug 25, 2024 at 11:00 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · My thoughts after spending some time at a camera store - Canon Edition

I'd actually prefer Canon follow Sony's lead and release a 20-70/4L IS. I'd even be OK if it's 24-70/4-5.6L IS

melcat wrote:
I don’t travel with primes any more and probably most people don’t, so don’t hold your breath for small high-quality moderate-aperture primes with weather sealing from Canon.

Agreed about zooms, but I am still hoping against all odds that Canon will eventually release a line of L moderate speed, compact primes. Or at least Cosina ports most of their Voigtlander VM and E mount lenses to RF mount with Canon's blessing.

Otherwise if size is critical, IMO the Leica M system is difficult to beat if you're OK with primes (and the cost), including many excellent and reasonably priced options from Cosina/Voigtlander. Compared to AF systems, many of the M mount lenses are tiny and the overall feel of the system is very premium.

Aug 25, 2024 at 11:22 PM


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