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R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

Scott Stoness
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

rscheffler wrote:
That's interesting about the file size discrepancy. Could it be bit depth difference depending on fps rate? In any case, in 'real world' conditions, ISO and scene content will be directly relevant to final file size and will impact buffer clearing (card write) times. My experience shooting sports wide open with long lenses and blurred out backgrounds is that those file sizes are a lot smaller than if I'm shooting highly detailed images, such as deep DOF wide angle landscapes, at equivalent ISOs. Fortunately in my case, the highly detailed deep DOF scenes are rarely ones for which I need...Show more →

The file size difference is only 5% - not a big difference so it could be fps or exposure or scene. This is not a big difference.

I agree that 100 frames, particularly if 15 are precapture, is less than 3s. And that requires being careful to no hit the buffer and be bricked for 3 seconds - which is forever when my bears suddenly are acting. Mind you if you are shooting at 15fps, that's 6s before bricking, so that is more manageable. [I am getting spoiled though - my old 5dsr would brick at 15 frames but the slow fps was easier to manage. The big advantage of R5II is you can set the fps at 15fps (6s) and have some kind of toggle to 30fps for when I rarely need it]

Aug 15, 2024 at 10:19 AM

arbitrage
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

Canon sure makes this confusing.
I think the biggest improvement they could make is allowing shooting at a lower FPS while the buffer clears. Total lock out seems to be a big hinderance.

Sony A1 does 10FPS when buffer is full and the A9III only does 5FPS. No one understands why the A9III with smaller files does half the rate with a full buffer. One of life's many mysteries.

Aug 15, 2024 at 11:00 AM

rscheffler
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

arbitrage wrote:
Canon sure makes this confusing.
I think the biggest improvement they could make is allowing shooting at a lower FPS while the buffer clears. Total lock out seems to be a big hinderance.

Sony A1 does 10FPS when buffer is full and the A9III only does 5FPS. No one understands why the A9III with smaller files does half the rate with a full buffer. One of life's many mysteries.

The total lockout seems to be a Canon 'prosumer' camera feature which is where the R5 and R6 models fall. I never experienced this with the 1D series and don't recall how the R3 handles it. But with the 1D series it would just randomly shoot frames as the buffer cleared at the selected fps rate, rather than dropping down to a lower but consistent frame rate. At least the R5II sounds like the lockout with CFe is only a few seconds. The R6II is painfully longer with a smaller burst depth combined with higher 40fps. What I've also noticed with the R6II is that the buffer frame counter can hit zero but you can still shoot a little more. Once it hits 'rock bottom' you're totally locked out for some time (5-8 seconds?). If you don't totally fill the buffer (like to maybe 85-90% full) it recovers a lot faster.

Aug 15, 2024 at 02:36 PM

docusync
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

The R5II cleans out the buffer at 11 fps Craw and 7 fps raw (Delkin Power 1TB). When the buffer is full, the pause is less than a second, and then it starts taking pictures again, then pause again, etc. Theoretically yes, the fps should just slow down to either 11 or 7, and the camera should continue shooting without pauses. I hope to get an R1 around the end of Oct, and hopefully it behaves as expected

Aug 15, 2024 at 02:55 PM

arbitrage
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

docusync wrote:
The R5II cleans out the buffer at 11 fps Craw and 7 fps raw (Delkin Power 1TB). When the buffer is full, the pause is less than a second, and then it starts taking pictures again, then pause again, etc. Theoretically yes, the fps should just slow down to either 11 or 7, and the camera should continue shooting without pauses. I hope to get an R1 around the end of Oct, and hopefully it behaves as expected

At least with CFe-B the wait is short...if it is less than a second from full buffer to shooting again then that isn't too big of a deal.

Aug 15, 2024 at 03:42 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

arbitrage wrote:
At least with CFe-B the wait is short...if it is less than a second from full buffer to shooting again then that isn't too big of a deal.

I think the 1s clear is optimistic - R5 takes 3s to clear when the buffer is full on CFx and 8s on SD, regardless of my card speed. The R5II will be moving 50% more data (30vs20fps) than the R5. I have heard numbers like 6s. I think the 1s came from an experiment at 7fps, not 30fps. At 7fps, you are not really stressing the buffer.

My strategy with R5ii will be - use 15fps and don't hold the shutter down beyond 3s so the buffer starts clearing but in the worse case I have 6s with 6s clear. And if I am in a need of 30fps, switch to CRAW to get bigger buffer.

I would like to be wrong so please tell me if I am.

Aug 16, 2024 at 11:26 AM

rscheffler
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

docusync wrote:
When the buffer is full, the pause is less than a second, and then it starts taking pictures again, then pause again, etc.

Scott Stoness wrote:
I would like to be wrong so please tell me if I am.

@docusync has the camera now and perhaps could clarify if the 1 second buffer full pause also applies to 30fps?

Aug 16, 2024 at 12:02 PM

artsupreme
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

rscheffler wrote:
@docusync@ has the camera now and perhaps could clarify if the 1 second buffer full pause also applies to 30fps?

I took videos of mine in both 15 and 30fps but can’t post videos here. With a Delkin Power 2Tb card it looks like the busy icon came on for about 1.5 seconds before it disappeared. I did not keep my finger down after I hit the buffer to see if it would keep taking more images. Screenshot from my phone video below when buffer was hit and busy icon displayed, and I lifted right away.

Aug 16, 2024 at 12:55 PM

docusync
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

@rscheffler@ approximately 1s. It's a brief delay and then it starts capturing again. I'll update my post after I measure it precisely (after I charge the battery)

@artsupreme@
15fps raw ~63MB file 87 files
15fps Craw ~45MB file 175 files

It does't look much different from 30 fps.

I can 100% confirm the camera drops from 30 to 25 fps under 40% charge.
It's not in the manual, just be aware folks, you're not always getting 30 fps. If 30fps is required, better to either carry a spare battery or a grip (or an R1

Aug 16, 2024 at 08:36 PM

artsupreme
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

docusync wrote:
@rscheffler@@ approximately 1s. It's a brief delay and then it starts capturing again. I'll update my post after I measure it precisely (after I charge the battery)

@artsupreme@@
15fps raw ~63MB file 87 files
15fps Craw ~45MB file 175 files

It does't look much different from 30 fps.

I can 100% confirm the camera drops from 30 to 25 fps under 40% charge.
It's not in the manual, just be aware folks, you're not always getting 30 fps. If 30fps is required, better to either carry a spare battery or a grip (or an R1

).

Nice, it's looking like our results are very similar with Delkin power cards. Either Yaniv's card is 40-60% faster than ours or he's doing something different with testing. I would expect a card to be maybe 15-20% faster, but probably not 40-60% faster. I'm guessing part of the difference is either the technique, the scene, or both. I guess we'll know for sure next week.

Aug 16, 2024 at 11:42 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

artsupreme wrote:
Nice, it's looking like our results are very similar with Delkin power cards. Either Yaniv's card is 40-60% faster than ours or he's doing something different with testing. I would expect a card to be maybe 15-20% faster, but probably not 40-60% faster. I'm guessing part of the difference is either the technique, the scene, or both. I guess we'll know for sure next week.

Artsupreme and docusync are shooting with deckin power cards Yaniv is shooting with sandisk pro

Sandisk pro is not a fast card 700 sustained

Delkin power CFx cards are slower cards. 800 sustained

Anyone try Delkin Black cfx cards? 1400 sustained They are much faster.

I have both but no r5ii When I tested on r5, there was no benefit because r5 hardware was limiting factor. I am hopeful that yaniv results hold up and R5ii is not the limiting factor.

Aug 17, 2024 at 10:40 AM

Scott Stoness
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

Jan Wagner is reporting 200 craw at 30fps on R5II. He and his friends shoot wildlife. So this could be representative?

He also says gets about 200craw at 20fps on his fastest card (3500 write wise 2TB) at 20fps on R5 (R5!).

Both of these results are way higher than what Docusync and ArtSupreme are getting. 150craw.

I am suspecting that the Delkin Power is not fast enough to limit the camera. [Or that they testing at iso 100 vs me at iso2000]

------------------------------------

Tests re R5 (R5!!) all at ISO 2000 ~1/100s 20fps (set) electronic:

Anglebird 512gb SE CRAW- 142 [was really short milliseconds plus at about 90 and then it came back to bung at 144]
Anglebird 512gb SE RAW - 87 [ where it had really short pause before it just bogged down to 3fps & then bunged up shortly thereafter]
Black Magic 8gb got write of about 710MB/s

Delkin Black 150gb CRaw - 144 [went intermittent at 144 but carried on to 188 at perhaps 5 fps thereafter then bunged with 1s gaps to next stutters]
Delkin Black 150gb Raw - 88 [went intermittent at 88 but carried on to 132 at perhaps 5 fps thereafter then bunged]
Black Magic 8gb got write of about 750MBs

Delkin Power 128GB - CRAW - 133 [went intermittent at 133 but carried on to 200 at 5fps thereafter to bunging
Delkin Power 128GB - Raw - 80 [went intermittent at 80 but carried on to 140 at perhaps 5fps thereafter then bunged]
Black Magic 8gb got write of about 725MB/s

I noticed lots of plus / minuses (heat?) with several tries. So I would round them all to 85 RAW and 140 CRAW with 3-4s clear at iso2000.

They all cleared in 3-4s post bung.

I suspect my black magic write tests were limited by my USB 3.1 Reader with 10gb/s speed. But my understanding is that R5 is limited to 400MB/s in any event.

My conclusions - There is not much difference with R5 which card you use. Whether CRAW or RAW. R5 gets about 85 frames then goes intermittent to 140 frames] with RAW. It gets about 140 craws and then carries on to 190 intermittently regardless of card.

Not sure this is helpful, but it implies ~120 raws (Jan's 200 times 85/140] on R5II with a good card?. Keeping in mind that if he tested at iso 100, he would get higher numbers. [At iso 100, with darker frame I got close to 110 frames before slowing on Delkin Black. A 25% increase in frames]

-------------------

All of this frustrates me - it appears that the biggest driver is ISO (and Craw) and whether cards make a difference is not clear. After days of people testing, it may just be that 15fps gets more than 30fps or not (Yaniv got this result but it's easy to make a mistake and change the iso]. Clearly based on the above, for the R5 (not R5ii ?) spending more money on cards for faster does not achieve anything - and that for the R5 results may vary more by ISO (Craw) than other factors.

Aug 17, 2024 at 01:39 PM

rscheffler
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

ISO and image content will be significant factors. BIF in full sun against clear sky background will be different than bears at dusk surrounded by grass/brush.

The takeaway so far is that the R5II appears to have a shorter buffer pause of around 1-1.5 seconds compared to the R5 and you can dial down the e-shutter fps rate to optimize the buffer depth for a given situation, if lower fps is an acceptable tradeoff. And pre-capture! And AF comparable to the R1...

Another takeaway is that the R5II is not the R1 and a point of differentiation will be buffer depth. Which circles back to a higher MP R1 being the ideal solution for some.

Aug 17, 2024 at 04:44 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

Picked up new r5 Ii today. Put in cfx 150 black. Very fast card.

Shot 30fps 1/100 iso 2000 raw - got 90 frames 3-4 s buffer clear about 55mpx files [craw 27mb got 151 frames but 1/50 light fading]
Shot 15 fps 1/100 iso raw 2000 got 190 frames 3-4 s buffer clear [craw 27mb got 415 frames but 1/50 light fading]

At 30fps fast sd card Kingston 128 canvas react I got about 75 but had to raise iso to 6400 to have similar 1/100 and the files went up to 62mb. Cleared in about 10s.

A quick test of precapture yielded expected results. At 30 fps iso 2000 raw you have 90 frames available. 15 0.5s are precapture and 75 2.5s are post shutter press.

I will check again tomorrow but tentatively:
- 190 raw frames at 15fps 4s clear is very good for me - 12s
- 90 raw frames at 30 fps is ok since it would not be my default -3s
- 415 at 15 fps is impressive in craw - 30s
- sd is quite slow to clear 75 frames / 10s clear but I don’t use it for wildlife / just use as overflow.

So far it passed the Scott hammer the buffer test. And the precapture behaved as it should - linearly. A relief. Now I have to find bears to test files at iso 12k.

Edited on Aug 23, 2024 at 10:10 PM · View previous versions

Aug 23, 2024 at 09:11 PM

artsupreme
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

Scott Stoness wrote:
Picked up new r5 Ii today. Put in cfx 150 black. Very fast card.
Shot 30fps 1/100 iso 2000 raw - got 90 frames 3-4 s buffer clear about 55mpx files
Shoe 15 fps 1/100 iso raw 2000 got 190 frames 3-4 s buffer clear

What were your other settings and what were you shooting? Meaning, you aren't shooting a black frame with MF are you? If you use the exact same settings we used, and shoot a regular scene, let us know what you get when you have a moment.

Aug 23, 2024 at 09:16 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

artsupreme wrote:
What were your other settings and what were you shooting? Meaning, you aren't shooting a black frame with MF are you? If you use the exact same settings we used, and shoot a regular scene, let us know what you get when you have a moment.

Reasonably exposed Ffower shot on my deck in light that caused 55mpx raws. Continuous af. Spot focus. So I think it’s comparable. And a reasonable scenario.

I will test more tomorrow.

Aug 23, 2024 at 09:23 PM

rscheffler
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

Scott Stoness wrote:
Picked up new r5 Ii today. Put in cfx 150 black. Very fast card.

Shot 30fps 1/100 iso 2000 raw - got 90 frames 3-4 s buffer clear about 55mpx files [craw 27mb got 151 frames but 1/50 light fading]
Shot 15 fps 1/100 iso raw 2000 got 190 frames 3-4 s buffer clear [craw 27mb got 415 frames but 1/50 light fading]

Thanks, this is helpful. If you ever have the chance, I'd be curious about CRAW buffer capacity at whatever user selectable fps rates are available between 15 and 30fps. Guessing 20 is an option. Is 25fps? ISO around 1600 as you have it now, is good as a midway point.

Aug 23, 2024 at 09:58 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

rscheffler wrote:
Thanks, this is helpful. If you ever have the chance, I'd be curious about CRAW buffer capacity at whatever user selectable fps rates are available between 15 and 30fps. Guessing 20 is an option. Is 25fps? ISO around 1600 as you have it now, is good as a midway point.

Will do tomoorow.

H plus is 20 or 30
His 15,12,10 7.5
L is 5 3 2 1

So the only missing is 20 fps in my numbers. I will try.

Aug 23, 2024 at 10:12 PM

docusync
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

Scott Stoness wrote:
Jan Wagner is reporting 200 craw at 30fps on R5II. He and his friends shoot wildlife. So this could be representative?

He also says gets about 200craw at 20fps on his fastest card (3500 write wise 2TB) at 20fps on R5 (R5!).

Both of these results are way higher than what Docusync and ArtSupreme are getting. 150craw.

I am suspecting that the Delkin Power is not fast enough to limit the camera. [Or that they testing at iso 100 vs me at iso2000]

I don’t think the card speed matters. The R5 II can encode 11 frames per second Craw/jpeg or 7 frames per second raw. You can check the file created times on your card. It translates to ~450MB/s max throughput. Any CFb card can handle this. Theoretically if you shoot Craw at 10 fps - you will have a bottomless buffer.

Aug 23, 2024 at 10:57 PM

stanj
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

Scott Stoness wrote:
H plus is 20 or 30
His 15,12,10 7.5
L is 5 3 2 1

My L is 7.5. The next lower speed range depends on the next higher one. I have mine at 30/15/7.5 which goes well for my purposes - I'll be at L most of the time, but I'm used to 7 (or 8) for better part of the decade now.

Aug 23, 2024 at 11:57 PM

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