Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1              3       4       end
  

R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

  
 
artsupreme
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


docusync wrote:
I didn’t charge the battery, but I did everything else: AF, ISO 1250, 1/1250, etc. I don’t have a 50mm lens so it’s the 85/1.2.
I got 100 raw and 154 craw. I checked the timing in exif - still 24 fps. Charging the battery now. 24 fps is no bueno.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/178STtg86UMIxWhzb4Js2jrY15yziCwqO/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=111373391961117720775&rtpof=true&sd=true


Well that's great news that you got similar results with a similar card. Very similar results actually, and thanks for confirming. As for 24fps, maybe there's a camera setting in there that's causing the problem. Thanks again for doing this.

Maybe we can get Yaniv back in here tomorrow to perform another test using the exact same settings we used.




Aug 12, 2024 at 09:43 PM
Scott Stoness
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


Yaniv wrote:
My results: all RAW | SanDisk 512GB Extreme PRO CFexpress Card Type B

Manual Focus - 30FPS
ISO 12800 (file size 70MB)
87 files

Manual Focus - 30FPS
ISO 2000 (file size 54MB)
103 files

Manual Focus - 15FPS
ISO 12800 (file size 64MB)
135 files

Manual Focus - 15FPS
ISO 2000 (file size 57MB)
151 files




re
Manual Focus - 15FPS
ISO 2000 (file size 57MB)
151 files

This is exciting to me. 15fps is as fast as I would normally need. 50% more is great. I might even dial it back to 12fps.



Aug 12, 2024 at 10:21 PM
Scott Stoness
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


Yaniv wrote:
My results: all RAW | SanDisk 512GB Extreme PRO CFexpress Card Type B

Manual Focus - 30FPS
ISO 12800 (file size 70MB)
87 files

Manual Focus - 30FPS
ISO 2000 (file size 54MB)
103 files

Manual Focus - 15FPS
ISO 12800 (file size 64MB)
135 files

Manual Focus - 15FPS
ISO 2000 (file size 57MB)
151 files




Test and numbers seem all over the map. When it says max write of eg 1500 it is a peak write speed which may not be tooo relavent.

for example:

The SanDisk Extreme Pro CFexpress B Card is available in several capacities and fully capable of speeds up to 1700MB/s read and 1400MB/s write. We have demonstrated its sustained write performance of 751MB/s.
https://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/cfexpress/sandisk-extreme-pro-512gb-cfexpress-b-card-review-understanding-sustained-data-transfer-temperatures-and-thermal-throttling/5/

The test shows read performance up to 1,726.16 MB/s and write speeds up to 1,537.03 MB/s. The included screenshot of the HD Tune test appears to show sustained write performance above 1,500 MB/s and sustained read performance slightly higher than that.
https://petapixel.com/2022/05/03/delkins-black-series-cfexpress-cards-make-lofty-speed-promises/



Aug 12, 2024 at 10:51 PM
Yaniv
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


Scott Stoness wrote:
Test and numbers seem all over the map. When it says max write of eg 1500 it is a peak write speed which may not be tooo relavent.

for example:

The SanDisk Extreme Pro CFexpress B Card is available in several capacities and fully capable of speeds up to 1700MB/s read and 1400MB/s write. We have demonstrated its sustained write performance of 751MB/s.
https://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/cfexpress/sandisk-extreme-pro-512gb-cfexpress-b-card-review-understanding-sustained-data-transfer-temperatures-and-thermal-throttling/5/

The test shows read performance up to 1,726.16 MB/s and write speeds up to 1,537.03 MB/s. The included screenshot of the HD Tune test appears to show sustained write performance above 1,500 MB/s and sustained read performance slightly
...Show more

It makes total sense to me, if you look at the numbers all that matters is the file size, the camera settings have little to no impact on speed (as long as the shutter is fast enough of course), maybe a file here and there, as camera settings affect in milliseconds file writing takes seconds.

With a few more tests we can calculate exactly how many files you will get per a fixed file size given memory type/brand/speed.

If you think about the original question in this post, the test got them 161 images at 30FPS, which means their file size must have been around 20-30 MB. Should be easy to reproduce.



Aug 12, 2024 at 11:03 PM
Scott Stoness
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


Yaniv wrote:
It makes total sense to me, if you look at the numbers all that matters is the file size, the camera settings have little to no impact on speed (as long as the shutter is fast enough of course), maybe a file here and there, as camera settings affect in milliseconds file writing takes seconds.

With a few more tests we can calculate exactly how many files you will get per a fixed file size given memory type/brand/speed.

If you think about the original question in this post, the test got them 161 images at 30FPS, which means their file
...Show more

I agree, smaller files (lower iso, variety of exposures) are the key to longer buffer. I was just hoping that Canon would change their hardware/software to improve their buffer. It appears, there is no off take from buffer to card, until the buffer is filled. Thus you can get longer times (8s vs 4s from 30fps to 15fps) but the buffer still seems to operate at all ingest or all copy. In addition, I ]tests suggest that they have not increased the internal camera speed enough to make use of faster cards. Even in 2.0, some cards (eg Delkin Black) are considerably faster than others (Delkin Power), it appears to be all for nought in the R5ii.

But your above test suggests some improvement:

Manual Focus - 30FPS
ISO 2000 (file size 54MB)
103 files

vs

Manual Focus - 15FPS
ISO 2000 (file size 57MB)
151 files



Aug 13, 2024 at 01:15 PM
docusync
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


I charged my battery, and tried again, same settings, same everything.
The only difference is the battery shows 4 bars (close to a 100%) instead of 2 (25-50% I guess).
Got 29-30 fps, 75 raw, 135 Craw.

Link to the timing spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1simoY4tySp7Fi00pXwEmaqZsY3ictBjD/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=111373391961117720775&rtpof=true&sd=true

@Yaniv@ @artsupreme@ wondering if you guys noticed your battery level when you performed the tests?
I think the camera cannot push 30fps if the battery voltage drops significantly.



Aug 13, 2024 at 04:13 PM
Yaniv
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


artsupreme wrote:
Well that's great news that you got similar results with a similar card. Very similar results actually, and thanks for confirming. As for 24fps, maybe there's a camera setting in there that's causing the problem. Thanks again for doing this.

Maybe we can get Yaniv back in here tomorrow to perform another test using the exact same settings we used.


AI servo AF
RAW
Auto WB
1/1250
f/2.8
ISO 1250
15fps
50mm lens
Static scene
***a normal scene with detail, not a black scene or white wall


140 files. (file size 63MB)



Aug 13, 2024 at 04:18 PM
Yaniv
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


docusync wrote:
I charged my battery, and tried again, same settings, same everything.
The only difference is the battery shows 4 bars (close to a 100%) instead of 2 (25-50% I guess).
Got 29-30 fps, 75 raw, 135 Craw.

Link to the timing spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1simoY4tySp7Fi00pXwEmaqZsY3ictBjD/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=111373391961117720775&rtpof=true&sd=true

@Yaniv@@ @artsupreme@@ wondering if you guys noticed your battery level when you performed the tests?
I think the camera cannot push 30fps if the battery voltage drops significantly.


Can you share the average file size you got? That is important.



Aug 13, 2024 at 04:23 PM
docusync
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


Yaniv wrote:
Can you share the average file size you got? That is important.



I think it's important for the buffer capacity, but not for the fps.

Today it's ~61.9 MB, last night it was ~50.4 MB on average (MacOS is using a 1,000,000 multiplier in Finder for MB not 1,048,576) for raw. The reason is that I was shooting grass today and yesterday it was just a lamp at home



Aug 13, 2024 at 05:04 PM
artsupreme
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


docusync wrote:
I charged my battery, and tried again, same settings, same everything.
The only difference is the battery shows 4 bars (close to a 100%) instead of 2 (25-50% I guess).
Got 29-30 fps, 75 raw, 135 Craw.

Link to the timing spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1simoY4tySp7Fi00pXwEmaqZsY3ictBjD/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=111373391961117720775&rtpof=true&sd=true

@Yaniv@@ @artsupreme@@ wondering if you guys noticed your battery level when you performed the tests?
I think the camera cannot push 30fps if the battery voltage drops significantly.


My battery was above 50%, I would guess probably about 80-90%.



Aug 13, 2024 at 05:31 PM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

artsupreme
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


Yaniv wrote:
AI servo AF
RAW
Auto WB
1/1250
f/2.8
ISO 1250
15fps
50mm lens
Static scene
***a normal scene with detail, not a black scene or white wall

140 files. (file size 63MB)


Well Yaniv, your card screams then. You are getting about 40% more buffer than me with the same camera settings. I'm curious to see how other cards test with these settings.



Aug 13, 2024 at 05:37 PM
Yaniv
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


artsupreme wrote:
Well Yaniv, your card screams then. You are getting about 40% more buffer than me with the same camera settings. I'm curious to see how other cards test with these settings.



Are you sure? i think your test was with 30 fps you asked me to do it with 15 fps

I ran the same test with the same settings just with 30fps instead and got 93 files.



Aug 13, 2024 at 06:01 PM
artsupreme
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


Yaniv wrote:
Are you sure? i think your test was with 30 fps you asked me to do it with 15 fps

I ran the same test with the same settings just with 30fps instead and got 93 files.


I got 151 cRAW @ 30fps and 101 RAW @ 15fps (53.6mb files). I think cRAW muddies things up a bit because there's compression being done.

Test yours @30fps in cRAW with the same settings and let's see what you get.



Aug 13, 2024 at 07:23 PM
Yaniv
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


artsupreme wrote:
I got 151 cRAW @ 30fps and 101 RAW @ 15fps (53.6mb files). I think cRAW muddies things up a bit because there's compression being done.

Test yours @30fps in cRAW with the same settings and let's see what you get.


I didn't see this: "101 RAW @ 15fps (53.6mb files)". Yeah, mine is faster.

Well, in a week a lot more people are going to get theirs.... we will have way more info soon.



Aug 13, 2024 at 08:35 PM
artsupreme
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


Yaniv wrote:
I didn't see this: "101 RAW @ 15fps (53.6mb files)". Yeah, mine is faster.

Well, in a week a lot more people are going to get theirs.... we will have way more info soon.


So far, your card has taken the gold by a long shot.



Aug 13, 2024 at 08:40 PM
docusync
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


artsupreme wrote:
My battery was above 50%, I would guess probably about 80-90%.


Do you mind discharging it to about 25-35% and testing again at H+ 30 fps? I bet it won’t go over 25, which would allow to capture more frames.

Edit: If you guys include timestamps like I did we could verify your fps.



Aug 13, 2024 at 09:03 PM
_Refraction
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


artsupreme wrote:
So far, your card has taken the gold by a long shot.


Don't want to jinx myself further but I skipped the recent Sandisk CFxB sale since I've got the Lexar Diamond and Delkin Black and Prograde Cobalt cards already from earlier sales in anticipation of the R5 II...going to be a bit annoyed with myself if it turns out that the R5 II prefers the cheaper Sandisk cards. Will test this when I get mine next week.



Aug 14, 2024 at 03:01 AM
artsupreme
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


_Refraction wrote:
Don't want to jinx myself further but I skipped the recent Sandisk CFxB sale since I've got the Lexar Diamond and Delkin Black and Prograde Cobalt cards already from earlier sales in anticipation of the R5 II...going to be a bit annoyed with myself if it turns out that the R5 II prefers the cheaper Sandisk cards. Will test this when I get mine next week.


I believe differences have to do with how busy the scene is and how much noise there is in each image. The busier and noisier the file, the more NR the camera is going to have to do to each file, the larger the file, etc..

I used the settings below, putting the camera on a table and pointed it to a static scene, I turn on the shutter sound so it's obvious when the camera hits the buffer, and then I press and hold until the camera stops. I lift off immediately after it stops and says busy. I think Docysync is doing something similar and our results are similar. For anyone else getting an R5II in their hands soon, try this test with both 15fps and 30fps:


Pre-continuous shooting OFF
AI servo AF
RAW
Auto WB
Auto ISO
1/1250
f/2.8
ISO 1250
15fps and 30fps
50mm lens
Static scene
***a normal scene with detail, not a black scene or white wall






Aug 14, 2024 at 10:08 AM
Scott Stoness
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps


artsupreme wrote:
I believe differences have to do with how busy the scene is and how much noise there is in each image. The busier and noisier the file, the more NR the camera is going to have to do to each file, the larger the file, etc..

I used the settings below, putting the camera on a table and pointed it to a static scene, I turn on the shutter sound so it's obvious when the camera hits the buffer, and then I press and hold until the camera stops. I lift off immediately after it stops and says busy. I
...Show more

Your hypothesis " differences have to do with how busy the scene is and how much noise there is in each image. The busier and noisier the file, the more NR the camera is going to have to do to each file, the larger the file, etc.." is inconsistent with Yaniv test results.

Manual Focus - 30FPS
ISO 2000 (file size 54MB)
103 files
vs
Manual Focus - 15FPS
ISO 2000 (file size 57MB)
151 files

I note
- 15fps was with bigger files.
- Yaniv used a SanDisk Extreme Pro.
- The likely clear difference between your tests and Yaniv tests was the card - but I still don't know what your card is [cfx?, brand, size, model]
- Your test results were:
- ISO 1250 [similar]
- 15fps [ same]
- 101 RAW files [ way less]
- 53.6MB each. [similar]
Docusync got 109 frames with Delkin Power - which is a slower card than SanDick Extreme Pro?. I know its slower than Delkin Black.


It is also inconsistent with a fixed GB buffer. More processing time would slow fps, but the fixed buffer GB would still have the same GB which enables a fixed number of frames (affected by file size, not processing).


My hypothesis is:
A) The buffer works better with slower fps [ good for R5ii]
B) The buffer works better with lower ISO (smaller files) [logical and expected]
C) The buffer works better with faster sustained write cards (Delkin Black,, SanDisk Extreme PRO) [promising for R5iI because this was not true of R5 when I compared Delkin Black vs Delkin Power]
D) The combination of slower fps and faster cards gets 40% bigger effective buffer [promising for R5II]

But I could be wrong and what frustrates me is that beyond the tests of yourself (thank you) and Yaniv (thank you) who have different cards and settings and subjects- I am speculating. It would be nice if canon was more informative.

If my hypothesis is correct, I will be modestly happy because I have a fast card (Delkin Black), I like to shoot at 15fps to avoid culling as default, and I would really like to achieve >80frames that I get on my R5, and a bigger buffer would make pre capture more viable as default - to justify buying the R5II (which has 1/3 less stop dynamic range, requires $500 in new batteries, and $2000 in buy new/sell old).

[For me (2/3 landscape, 1/3 slower big animals) the big benefits of R5ii over R5 are: precapture when my bears suddenly stand up, 14 bit raw in electronic for handheld landscape because it does not matter at iso 800 and above, and variable fps to manage culling. At the expense of new, batteries, faster bigger card].

Edited on Aug 15, 2024 at 10:08 AM · View previous versions



Aug 15, 2024 at 09:35 AM
rscheffler
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps



Scott Stoness wrote:
Your hypothesis " differences have to do with how busy the scene is and how much noise there is in each image. The busier and noisier the file, the more NR the camera is going to have to do to each file, the larger the file, etc.." is inconsistent with
Yaniv test results.

Manual Focus - 30FPS
ISO 2000 (file size 54MB)
103 files

vs

Manual Focus - 15FPS
ISO 2000 (file size 57MB)
151 files

I note - 15fps was with bigger files. Yaniv used a SanDisk Extreme Pro.


That's interesting about the file size discrepancy. Could it be bit depth difference depending on fps rate? In any case, in 'real world' conditions, ISO and scene content will be directly relevant to final file size and will impact buffer clearing (card write) times. My experience shooting sports wide open with long lenses and blurred out backgrounds is that those file sizes are a lot smaller than if I'm shooting highly detailed images, such as deep DOF wide angle landscapes, at equivalent ISOs. Fortunately in my case, the highly detailed deep DOF scenes are rarely ones for which I need 15 or 30fps and a deep buffer, where the available buffer capacity would be the most restrictive. As you can imagine though, for sports, I will want to wring as many frames out of the buffer as possible, which with the R5II, will benefit from shallow DOF shooting, CRAW, lower ISO when possible, and apparently faster cards.

For action-oriented photographers shooting RAW, the R5II's buffer will be a possible sticking point that will need to be carefully managed. This will be in contrast to the R1, which appears to have a virtually unlimited buffer. It's probably an intentional point of differentiation to keep the two cameras further separated, but I would not mind a paid upgrade for cameras like the R5 and R6 series to double the buffer capacity.




Aug 15, 2024 at 10:02 AM
1              3       4       end






FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1              3       4       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.