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R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

The digital Picture:

"I tested the Canon EOS R5 Mark II 30 fps electronic shutter drive mode's buffer depth using manual mode (no AE time lag), ISO 100, 1/32000, a wide open aperture (no time lost due to aperture blades closing), and manual focus (no focus lock delay). The exposure yielded a black image, the battery was near full charge, and a freshly-formatted Lexar 1TB CFexpress Memory Card was loaded.
The 5D II continuously captured 161 images for an over 5 second duration, and the buffer was fully written to the card in 10 seconds.”

Noting the typo of 5dII should have been R5II, and assuming the 161 images is still correct, 161 images is way more than indicated by canon (93 max burst). I am hoping that this is right. 161 would be a game changer for me. Especially since I would be able to shoot at 15fps electronic. I often run into the buffer quickly when catching.

I was hoping for double 93 at 15 fps.

Any thoughts?

[Please read below - others speculated that this is craw, but Bryan confirms that it is raw. And indicates the card he tested it on and has updated his description."

===============

See the end but here are my conclusions:

So in summary:
max frames = 60 (@25kiso) to 97 (@2000kiso) to 135 (@iso100) to 270 (craw/@iso 2000) at 30fps
frames = 129 (25k) to 215 (2000k) to 300 (iso 100) to 430 (craw/2000) at 15 fps
10fps is effectively infinite time and frames - buffer never fills
20fps is in between
iso 100 will get 40% more frames
iso 25k will get 40% less frames
All with about 4s buffer clear when pushed to stutter.

215 frames ~12s - is enough for me at 15fps, with a good cfx card.

SD card will be much more challenging but why use it for wildlife because of the 10s buffer clear

Edited on Aug 24, 2024 at 05:24 PM · View previous versions

Aug 11, 2024 at 02:32 PM

docusync
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

That is compressed raw (craw) which is as expected. Uncompressed would give you ~90 frames @ 30fps.

Aug 11, 2024 at 02:49 PM

artsupreme
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

When I got mine this is the first thing I did but my test was a little different. I wanted to mimic a normal shooting situation so I used the settings below:

AI servo
cRAW
1/1250
f/2.8
ISO 1250

This was pointed at my kitchen area so nothing was moving and it's possible I would get less when shooting action, but I did it twice and got exactly 151 cRAW images both times. I did this with the cheap RF 50mm too, so not sure if that makes a difference. I'm running 2TB Delkin Power CFe cards.

I got exactly 30fps and for what it's worth the files were all 25.9mb-26mb if you want to try and calculate the bandwidth for full RAW files.

Aug 11, 2024 at 03:02 PM

jcolwell
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

I'm reading this, thinking, that's pertty good. Given the five frames my 5DS gives me, before the buffer is full. Takes about a week to empty...

Aug 11, 2024 at 03:26 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

artsupreme wrote:
When I got mine this is the first thing I did but my test was a little different. I wanted to mimic a normal shooting situation so I used the settings below:

AI servo
cRAW
1/1250
f/2.8
ISO 1250

This was pointed at my kitchen area so nothing was moving and it's possible I would get less when shooting action, but I did it twice and got exactly 151 cRAW images both times. I did this with the cheap RF 50mm too, so not sure if that makes a difference. I'm running 2TB Delkin Power CFe cards.

I got exactly 30fps and for what it's worth the...Show more →

Thanks for the test results. Can you do same at 15fps raw, and see what it gets too. I would rarely want to go to 30fps, but I would sure like to get >93 frames.

Aug 11, 2024 at 04:27 PM

artsupreme
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

Scott Stoness wrote:
Thanks for the test results. Can you do same at 15fps raw, and see what it gets too. I would rarely want to go to 30fps, but I would sure like to get >93 frames.

AI servo
RAW
1/1250
f/2.8
ISO 1250
15fps
50mm lens shooting into kitchen with no movement

I got 101 RAW files that were 53.6MB each.

Note: my card was not formatted in the R5II and it has 750GB of data on it. Not sure if that matters or not but maybe others can test using similar settings with different cards.

Aug 11, 2024 at 04:46 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

artsupreme wrote:
AI servo
RAW
1/1250
f/2.8
ISO 1250
15fps
50mm lens shooting into kitchen with no movement

I got 101 RAW files that were 53.6MB each.

Note: my card was not formatted in the R5II and it has 750GB of data on it. Not sure if that matters or not but maybe others can test using similar settings with different cards.

Thank you very much for the test. I appreciate your time.

101 is dissappointing at 15 fps but does not surprise me. This is not larger than the sd at 30fps that I tested at 99 frames (the big difference sd vs cfx was 8 s vs 3 s buffer clear on r5). But it is consistent with buffer behaviour in R5 (sd=cfrexpress frames similar). Canon has done something odd in hardware/software (not taking off pictures from built in memory until buffer is full, regardless of fps). 15fps should leave capacity available for writing to card while saving pictures to on board memory. Eg the R5III at 12fps mech, allows >200 frames Raw, so they are doing something different in processing for electronic vs mechanical, even when you set the fps at similar rates.

Maybe they can fix it in the future with hardware update, but I doubt it because they knew they had this issue and it was undesirable for 4 years with R5. I suspect there is some kind of video chip, that is used for electronic and not for mechanical.

I guess I just have to decide, whether the settable fps (less culling), 30 vs 20 fps, precapture, 14 bit justifies thousands of dollars, slightly less dynamic range at landscape iso, and new batteries. I am preordered on R5ii. I really do not want to use craw - why buy 14bit/raw and never take advantage of it.
12fps electronic would at least get me 6s which is a long time

Even thought the digital picture analysis of Craw concludes - there is no noticeable difference at normal and overexposed. There is a difference at plus 2 or plus 3 pushed but it may just be random differences, because it is hard to choose a favourite between CRAW vs RAW. [my big beef is that I don't want to accidentally leave the craw on when I am shooting landscape but that might be fixable using c1,c2 for landscape and c3 for wildlife (at CRAW). https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Canon-Cameras/Canon-C-RAW-Image-File-Format.aspx

Edited on Aug 11, 2024 at 09:04 PM · View previous versions

Aug 11, 2024 at 08:12 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

Anyone test the 12fps efcs - I it still noticeable noise for wildlife ? I am expecting yes.

Aug 11, 2024 at 09:02 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

I emailed Bryan C of Thedigitalpicture. He confirmed that:
- he corrected the typos to replace 5dii with R5ii and added some more facts on maximum burst
- 161 raw was raw - not craw - with Lexar 1TB card
- Similarly in RAW he achieved similar 155 with A Nextorage 512GB B2 SE card
- Similarly in RAW he achieved similar with a Sabrent 1TB card enabled 157 continuously captured images in each test, and the buffer completed writing in about 11 seconds

And in CRAW he achieve 228 frames.

So I am excited. I suspect that ArtSupreme had a slower cfexprees card?

There are two cfexpress 2.0 vintages - one with about 1400 write and the others with less than 800write.

Edited on Aug 12, 2024 at 10:23 PM · View previous versions

Aug 12, 2024 at 05:29 PM

artsupreme
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

Scott Stoness wrote:
I emailed Bryan C of Thedigitalpicture. He confirmed that:
- he corrected the typos to replace 5dii with R5ii and added some more facts on maximum burst
- 161 raw was raw - not craw - with Lexar 1TB card
- Similarly in RAW he achieved similar 155 with A Nextorage 512GB B2 SE card
- Similarly in RAW he achieved similar with a Sabrent 1TB card enabled 157 continuously captured images in each test, and the buffer completed writing in about 11 seconds

And in CRAW he achieve 228 frames.

So I am excited. I suspect that ArtSupreme had a slower cfexprees card?...Show more →

Scott,

This is my card speed below. I could be wrong but I would not get your hopes up. Didn't you say he was taking pure black frames at ISO 100? A black frame is not realistic, and his files were probably much smaller than mine. There's not much information in a black frame. My files were higher ISO, higher noise, and were actual photos, not black frames. I believe this would change the outcome?

If it's just a matter of me using a slower card then that's great news, but my 101 frames seem very close to the 93 frames in the Canon manual. I sure hope I'm wrong as I can easily buy new cards.

Edit, I see he also used Manual Focus. Were you planning on using manual focus for your bears?

Aug 12, 2024 at 05:40 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

artsupreme wrote:
Scott,

This is my card speed below. I could be wrong but I would not get your hopes up. Didn't you say he was taking pure black frames at ISO 100? A black frame is not realistic, and his files were probably much smaller than mine. There's not much information in a black frame. My files were higher ISO, higher noise, and were actual photos, not black frames. I believe this would change the outcome?

If it's just a matter of me using a slower card then that's great news, but my 101 frames seem very close to the 93 frames in...Show more →

Thanks ArtSupreme.

Unfortunately, card suppliers provide max write but not necessarily sustained write metrics. What is the card description.

Fair point, he added "With an exposure and scene creating a considerable amount of detail, the R5 II continuously captured 95-122 images at 30 fps, still meeting or exceeding its rating." Manual focus should not change the burst depth, it would just speed up the fps.

I guess we will have to hope someone with a really fast card can test the R5ii. I have the delkin black (1200 sustained write) but don't have an R5ii to try it.

Edited on Aug 12, 2024 at 06:00 PM · View previous versions

Aug 12, 2024 at 05:59 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

Scott Stoness wrote:
The digital Picture:

"The exposure yielded a black image.”

Any thoughts?

My thoughts is with these exposure parameters and black frames, it's the best possible buffer depth and isn't going to be representative of real world use with actual subject content that results in larger file sizes (and probably more processing for the CPU).

Aug 12, 2024 at 05:59 PM

artsupreme
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

Scott Stoness wrote:
Thanks ArtSupreme.

Fair point, he added "With an exposure and scene creating a considerable amount of detail, the R5 II continuously captured 95-122 images at 30 fps, still meeting or exceeding its rating." Manual focus should not change the burst depth, it would just speed up the fps.

I guess we will have to hope someone with a really fast card can test the R5ii. I have the delkin black (1200 sustained write) but don't have an R5ii to try it.

PM Docusync and ask him to run a test with his card, or Yaniv as they both have one.

Ideally, if you are going to be shooting action this is how it should be tested, but my tests were performed with a static scene. Plus, I was at ISO 1250 and DP was at ISO 100 and I would think this would create a difference as well.

I don't know if there's a heat factor in the buffer, or if it's all strictly throughput. If it regulates heat, then obviously AF and higher ISO would make the camera work harder and create more heat.

Aug 12, 2024 at 06:03 PM

docusync
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

artsupreme wrote:
PM Docusync and ask him to run a test with his card, or Yaniv as they both have one.

Ideally, if you are going to be shooting action this is how it should be tested, but my tests were performed with a static scene. Plus, I was at ISO 1250 and DP was at ISO 100 and I would think this would create a difference as well.

I don't know if there's a heat factor in the buffer, or if it's all strictly throughput. If it regulates heat, then obviously AF and higher ISO would make the camera work harder...Show more →

I got 270 Craw and 109 raw. ISO 100, MF, 5600K manual WB.

I dumped all files in a folder and then ran
exiftool [source_folder_name] | find "Create Date :" > [output_name]

On a Mac just replace find with grep, and the output file . So it's the actual image capture timestamp, and it's the same as the "Date/Time Original".

But guess what? I got 24 fps only. So no wonder the camera could squeeze more images. My battery charge is about 50%, and I think that's the reason. I'm wondering if Canon published any guidance on what what FPS we should expect at what % charge. The original R5 used to dropped mechanical shutter FPS as far as I remember.

Exact timestamps for each file:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WXVS8wRWdmdKfM4w9wg58G-P83PpQUAc/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=111373391961117720775&rtpof=true&sd=true

The card is Delkin Power 1TB CfB.

Aug 12, 2024 at 07:02 PM

artsupreme
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

docusync wrote:
I got 270 Craw and 109 raw. ISO 100, MF, 5600K manual WB.

I dumped all files in a folder and then ran
exiftool [source_folder_name] | find "Create Date :" > [output_name]

On a Mac just replace find with grep, and the output file . So it's the actual image capture timestamp, and it's the same as the "Date/Time Original".

But guess what? I got 24 fps only. So no wonder the camera could squeeze more images. My battery charge is about 50%, and I think that's the reason. I'm wondering if Canon published any guidance on what what...Show more →

Hmmmm, how big were your cRAW and RAW files?

Can you try one with my settings above (ISO 1250) and also put it in AF mode to see if it makes a difference? And maybe use Auto WB as well

Edited on Aug 12, 2024 at 07:06 PM · View previous versions

Aug 12, 2024 at 07:04 PM

Yaniv
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

My results: all RAW | SanDisk 512GB Extreme PRO CFexpress Card Type B

Manual Focus - 30FPS
ISO 12800 (file size 70MB)
87 files

Manual Focus - 30FPS
ISO 2000 (file size 54MB)
103 files

Manual Focus - 15FPS
ISO 12800 (file size 64MB)
135 files

Manual Focus - 15FPS
ISO 2000 (file size 57MB)
151 files

Aug 12, 2024 at 07:06 PM

artsupreme
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

Yaniv wrote:
My results: all RAW | SanDisk 512GB Extreme PRO CFexpress Card Type B

Manual Focus - 30FPS
ISO 12800 (file size 70MB)
87 files

Manual Focus - 30FPS
ISO 2000 (file size 54MB)
103 files

Manual Focus - 15FPS
ISO 12800 (file size 64MB)
135 files

Manual Focus - 15FPS
ISO 2000 (file size 57MB)
151 files

Hmmm, maybe I need some new cards. Why is everyone using MF??

Aug 12, 2024 at 07:08 PM

docusync
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

I just realized my exposure was 1/100s. It's probably too slow and that's why I didn't get 30 fps. I'll try again later this evening @ 1/1000s.

artsupreme wrote:
Hmmmm, how big were your cRAW and RAW files?

Can you try one with my settings above (ISO 1250) and also put it in AF mode to see if it makes a difference? And maybe use Auto WB as well

Sure!

Aug 12, 2024 at 07:11 PM

artsupreme
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

I'll be following this thread to see other results, but it would be nice if we could all use a similar (realistic) settings. I'm not sure anyone here would use MF when shooting bursts, so why test it in MF? The AF processor has to create more heat/strain compared to MF.

AI servo AF
RAW
Auto WB
Auto ISO
1/1250
f/2.8
ISO 1250
15fps
50mm lens
Static scene
***a normal scene with detail, not a black scene or white wall

Aug 12, 2024 at 07:23 PM

docusync
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · R5ii Thedigitalpicture re buffer say he got 161 images at 30fps

artsupreme wrote:
I'll be following this thread to see other results, but it would be nice if we could all use a similar (realistic) settings. I'm not sure anyone here would use MF when shooting bursts, so why test it in MF? The AF processor has to create more heat/strain compared to MF.

AI servo AF
RAW
Auto WB
Auto ISO
1/1250
f/2.8
ISO 1250
15fps
50mm lens
Static scene
***a normal scene with detail, not a black scene or white wall

I didn’t charge the battery, but I did everything else: AF, ISO 1250, 1/1250, etc. I don’t have a 50mm lens so it’s the 85/1.2.
I got 100 raw and 154 craw. I checked the timing in exif - still 24 fps. Charging the battery now. 24 fps is no bueno. Going to try 15 fps as well as soon as the battery charges.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/178STtg86UMIxWhzb4Js2jrY15yziCwqO/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=111373391961117720775&rtpof=true&sd=true

Aug 12, 2024 at 09:35 PM

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