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Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Fred Miranda
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p.8 #1 · p.8 #1 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

BTW, I'm getting a Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 Heliar to compare to the new APO-Lanthar.

Aug 20, 2024 at 05:18 PM

philip_pj
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p.8 #2 · p.8 #2 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Vignette is best considered as an artistic tool in the image maker's armoury, particularly as it is so easy to modulate in post or by stopping down a little. It arouses strong objections in some who are disturbed by noise in, for example, blue skies.

But it's an effective tool for image finishing that 'closes off' the image that otherwise bleeds out to the edge, where often nothing is present. Vignette refocuses attention on the subject and content that occupies the middle 80% of the frame. It hearkens back to traditional photography.

Zeiss, like Cosina, attracted plenty of criticism over this pleasant shaping of the image. However, they never changed their preference for it, despite these premier lens makers obviously having the ability to do so.

'Note that this technical defect can be an artistic strength. Some of the world’s most highly regarded lenses exhibit a fair bit of vignetting : the Canon 85/1.2, the Leica Summilux-M 75/1.4, the Zeiss Distagon 1.4/35 ZM'
https://www.dearsusan.net/mastering-lens-testing-vignetting/

'The lens bears an f/2.8 maximum armature that deviates from the problem of heavy vignette that plagues most Zeiss lenses.'
https://www.2bridges.nyc/filmmaking-guide/zeiss-vs-leica/

There are signs we are finally leaving the purist mindset behind. 'Clinical or artistic intimacy'?, people are increasingly asking themselves.

Aug 20, 2024 at 05:21 PM

philip_pj
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p.8 #3 · p.8 #3 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

In the 50/3.5 images, the slightly smoothed bokeh for distant objects retains their shape (and identity) while getting the softening just right. The images therefore provide the viewer with room to move around and still see pleasantly presented motifs that complement the subject inside a richer image. It's not an easy combination to achieve.

Aug 20, 2024 at 05:27 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.8 #4 · p.8 #4 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

philip_pj wrote:
Vignette is best considered as an artistic tool in the image maker's armoury, particularly as it is so easy to modulate in post or by stopping down a little. It arouses strong objections in some who are disturbed by noise in, for example, blue skies.

But it's an effective tool for image finishing that 'closes off' the image that otherwise bleeds out to the edge, where often nothing is present. Vignette refocuses attention on the subject and content that occupies the middle 80% of the frame. It hearkens back to traditional photography.

Zeiss, like Cosina, attracted plenty of criticism over...Show more →

I agree. Vignetting is one of the lens characteristics that bothers me the least. In fact, I often like the effect. With some lenses, like the Leica 50/1 Noct, which is known for its extreme vignetting, I never correct it.

LEICA M10-R Noctilux-M 1:1/50 lens lens 50mm f/1.0 1/1000s 100 ISO 0.0 EV

Aug 20, 2024 at 10:18 PM

philip_pj
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p.8 #5 · p.8 #5 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

The designers seem to usually make a good fist of it, and it can be hard to get it right in post at times. A personal preference matter, and easy to understand both sides of the issue.

I understand why you stop at f8, but can I request what you think of the likely performance at f11, seeing that Cosina have included an f22 setting? And, now you have spent some time with it, do you have any comments on the hood? Does the cap fit as well as on the Heliar 50/3.5, and does it fit the hood and/or the front of the lens? No rush, just curious.

Aug 20, 2024 at 10:47 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.8 #6 · p.8 #6 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

philip_pj wrote:
The designers seem to usually make a good fist of it, and it can be hard to get it right in post at times. A personal preference matter, and easy to understand both sides of the issue.

I understand why you stop at f8, but can I request what you think of the likely performance at f11, seeing that Cosina have included an f22 setting? And, now you have spent some time with it, do you have any comments on the hood? Does the cap fit as well as on the Heliar 50/3.5, and does it fit the hood and/or...Show more →

I typically avoid testing at f/11 since f/8 already shows noticeable diffraction. However, I can include some f/11 shots when I compare it to the Heliar. I expect the Heliar to perform well, as I recall it being quite remarkable in both resolution and contrast.

As for the front cap, similar to the Heliar, it only fits the hood, not the lens itself. It seems Cosina designed this lens to be used with the hood attached. Since this isn't a production model, I'm unsure if the final version will come with two caps...one for the hood and one for the lens.

Aug 20, 2024 at 11:29 PM

brick33308
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p.8 #7 · p.8 #7 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

the RedDot people recommend for Leica cams not ever stopping down past f8, and their preference is to not go past f5.6.

Aug 21, 2024 at 08:26 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.8 #8 · p.8 #8 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

brick33308 wrote:
the RedDot people recommend for Leica cams not ever stopping down past f8, and their preference is to not go past f5.6.

Diffraction starts as soon as you stop down from a lens's widest aperture, but it’s usually not noticeable at wider apertures like f/2.8 or f/4 with current sensors, even those with 60MP. At pixel level, it becomes visible only at smaller apertures like f/8 and beyond.

To achieve the best optical performance, stopping the aperture down about 2 stops from wide open to reduce most aberrations, but with high-performance lenses like Cosina's APO-Lanthar or Leica SL APO, only one stop down might be sufficient due to their apochromatic design..

While I think it's wise to avoid apertures smaller than f/8 in most scenarios, there are cases where using f/11 or f/16 is necessary to achieve a broad depth of field. Deconvolution sharpening can help recover some sharpness lost to diffraction. Another option is focus stacking, although it requires multiple shots. For landscapes with a prominent foreground element, a good approach is to take one shot at f/16 or f/18 focused at the lens’s hard stop (infinity) and another shot at f/5.6 focused on the foreground element. Combining these shots in post-processing can achieve sharpness throughout the image, with high-frequency detail and micro-contrast in the foreground which is usually the primary focal point anyways..

It’s often better to have the subject in focus, even if slightly less sharp, than to risk missing critical details, similar to using a higher ISO for a sharper subject despite increased noise.

Aug 21, 2024 at 11:07 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.8 #9 · p.8 #9 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

I received a response from Cosina about the materials used in the Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Type II Black Paint version. The lens is primarily made of aluminum, including the main focus and aperture ring. However, the lower section is made of brass, which includes the main tube with the hyperfocal markings, the ring where the poles are located, and the mount.

Aug 21, 2024 at 12:06 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.8 #10 · p.8 #10 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Here is more information about the M39 Leica Threaded/Screw Mount (LTM/LSM) version of the Nikon Micro-Nikkor 1:3.5 f=5cm, which served as the basis for the new Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Type I (duo-tone):
https://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/RF-Nikkor/Micro_RF/index.htm

Also, here is an article detailing the disassembly (repair) of the older Nikon from 1956:
https://richardhaw.com/2020/05/02/repair-micro-nikkor-5cm-f-3-5-ltm/

Aug 21, 2024 at 04:04 PM

fjablo
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p.8 #11 · p.8 #11 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

brick33308 wrote:
the RedDot people recommend for Leica cams not ever stopping down past f8, and their preference is to not go past f5.6.

Sounds like solid advice if all you shoot is distant subjects with no foreground.. or test charts 🙃

https://photographylife.com/landscape-photography-stop-down

Edited on Aug 21, 2024 at 04:34 PM · View previous versions

Aug 21, 2024 at 04:25 PM

hanay78
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p.8 #12 · p.8 #12 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

What a nice photograph!!!!!

Fred Miranda wrote:
I agree. Vignetting is one of the lens characteristics that bothers me the least. In fact, I often like the effect. With some lenses, like the Leica 50/1 Noct, which is known for its extreme vignetting, I never correct it.

Aug 21, 2024 at 04:33 PM

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p.8 #13 · p.8 #13 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

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Infinity Resolution and Contrast compared to Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 Heliar on Leica M11 (60MP)

The Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 Heliar has long been praised for its exceptional resolution, contrast, and color rendering. When it first launched with the Leica screw mount, Popular Photography magazine called it the sharpest lens they had ever tested. However, the new Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar is now aiming to surpass it as the top performer in the compact 50mm category.

So, how do these two lenses compare in terms of resolution and contrast? I put them to the test, and while the Heliar still delivers impressive results, the APO-Lanthar significantly raises the bar. The APO-Lanthar excels at capturing fine details even at the center, and its flat-field curvature ensures excellent performance across the entire image field. In contrast, the Heliar provides strong sharpness in the center and extreme corners but suffers from wavy field curvature, causing out-of-focus areas in the mid-field at infinity. This is evident in the crop below, where the focus plane shifts to closer foliage in the Heliar samples. Despite this, both lenses perform exceptionally well in real-world scenarios.

In terms of resolution and contrast, only the Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO matches the new CV 50/3.5 lens. The Leica M11 was used for this test.

As requested, I’ve also included crops taken at f/11 this time.

Distance: Infinity
Focus: Center - Best of three shots at maximum magnification
White Balance: Daylight
Both lenses are perfectly centered, as verified with my decentering test.
Software used: Lightroom with FM Default Landscape Sharpening; all other settings are at default.

PS: Vignetting, Chromatic Aberration (CA), and distortion were not corrected either in post-processing or in-camera.

Center Resolution and Contrast
Infinity Resolution and Contrast compared to Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 Heliar on Leica M11 (60MP)

Both lenses deliver excellent performance, but the Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar edges out slightly capturing more fine detail at center.

f/3.5

f/4

f/5.6

f/8

f/11

Aug 21, 2024 at 05:59 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.8 #14 · p.8 #14 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Mid-field Resolution and Contrast
Infinity Resolution and Contrast compared to Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 Heliar on Leica M11 (60MP)

Note that the Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 Heliar excels in the mid-field, but its wavy field curvature shifts the plane of focus toward the foreground in the mid-field area.

f/3.5

f/4

f/5.6

f/8

f/11

Aug 21, 2024 at 06:01 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.8 #15 · p.8 #15 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Extreme Corner Resolution and Contrast
Infinity Resolution and Contrast compared to Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 Heliar on Leica M11 (60MP)

Both lenses deliver excellent performance, but the Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar edges out slightly with its superior results.

f/3.5

f/4

f/5.6

f/8

f/11

Aug 21, 2024 at 06:03 PM

RustyBug
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p.8 #16 · p.8 #16 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Fred Miranda wrote:
Diffraction starts as soon as you stop down from a lens's widest aperture, but it’s usually not noticeable at wider apertures like f/2.8 or f/4.

+1

Yup, the light is always bouncing (refracting) off the edges of the aperture and kinda acts like "ripples in a pond". The closer the edges get to one another (as you stop down to smaller apertures), the "choppier" the water gets as wave amplitudes intersect.

Toss a pebble into a large body of water, near the shore and the ripples "die down" before they get too far toward the middle. Toss that same pebble into a pot of water, and things are splashing about a bit more. By the time you get down to a teacup ... well, you get the gist that the splashing about (wave amplitude peaks) is more noticeable as the area gets smaller.

That, or the difference between a wake outside the wall vs. inside the wall. Either way, as the area gets smaller, the distance of wave travel till it runs into other waves is reduced, so the energy still in the wave is higher, thus the wave amplitude is also cumulative higher when they intersect. With larger apertures, the amplitudes are "lighter" and "fewer".

Aug 21, 2024 at 09:10 PM

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p.8 #17 · p.8 #17 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

RustyBug wrote:
+1

Yup, the light is always bouncing (refracting) off the edges of the aperture and kinda acts like "ripples in a pond". The closer the edges get to one another (as you stop down to smaller apertures), the "choppier" the water gets as wave amplitudes intersect.

Toss a pebble into a large body of water, near the shore and the ripples "die down" before they get too far toward the middle. Toss that same pebble into a pot of water, and things are splashing about a bit more. By the time you get down to a teacup ... well, you get the...Show more →

Great analogy! People often say that diffraction 'increases' with higher megapixels or smaller sensors. In reality, diffraction is always present and constant; what changes is our perception of it as sensor resolution increases. For example, with sensors approaching 100 or 200MP, we may begin to notice diffraction effects at wider apertures, like f/5.6, depending on the specific sensor, lens, and other factors..

It's also important to remember that we don't always need to use a lens's optimal aperture -- it depends on the specific requirements of the scene. While stopping down beyond f/8 can reduce image quality due to diffraction, this can be mitigated in post and it might be necessary to achieve sufficient depth of field in certain situations. On the other hand, using wider apertures may introduce more aberrations, which can also diminish image quality. Knowing a lens's optimal aperture is valuable, but we shouldn't be afraid to use other apertures, even if they are extreme, to portray the scene as we envision.

Aug 21, 2024 at 09:39 PM

RustyBug
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p.8 #18 · p.8 #18 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Fred Miranda wrote:
Great analogy! People often say that diffraction 'increases' with higher megapixels or smaller sensors. In reality, diffraction is always present and constant; what changes is our perception of it as sensor resolution increases. For example, with sensors approaching 100 or 200MP, we may begin to notice diffraction effects at wider apertures, like f/5.6, depending on the specific sensor, lens, and other factors..

It's also important to remember that we don't always need to use a lens's optimal aperture -- it depends on the specific requirements of the scene. While stopping down beyond f/8 can reduce image quality due to diffraction,...Show more →

+1

Thanks Fred. I always wonder if my "odd-ball analogies" will find traction with folks. Good to hear it made a lick of sense to you.

I ran some tests several years ago, and found that f11 was where I started to notice its effects. Since that was the line where I "noticed" ... then, that lined up pretty well with the age old adage of f/8 being the threshold to be "safe" from its effects.

That said, I'll shoot (rarely) smaller than f/11 ... but, I'm aware that I'm taking a contrast / acutance reduction hit. Depending on the structure of the scene, it might be a "no biggie". The other thing that folks (imo) don't take into account is their lighting and the contrast levels of a given lens. By that, if I'm in great light, I've already got high contrast / acutance ... and the hit from diffraction doesn't take as much of a toll on the image as it might with a lower contrast lighting scenario ... or a lens that starts out with a lesser contrast MTF. Great lenses with superb contrast MTF transmission can tolerate the hit from diffraction a bit better, so if I'm shooting great glass, I worry about diffraction even less.

Short answer ... it's there ... and "depending" on diff things, the hit from it can range from minuscule to "soft". Armed with that, I still lean into f/6.3 (1/2 stop short of f/8) as my typical limit when I want more DOF. Otherwise, I'm usually in the f/3.5 - f/4.5 range as my "go to" aperture. Also, with longer glass ... the f/11 aperture (as a ratio) is physically larger (i.e. bigger pond) than for my shorter wide angle glass. So, I'm more likely to shoot long glass at f/11 than I am my shorter stuff.

Splittin' hairs a bit ... but, that's a bit of my .02 on it. So, yeah ... your testing only going to f/8 ... I'm golden with that.

Aug 21, 2024 at 10:03 PM

rscheffler
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p.8 #19 · p.8 #19 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

Fred Miranda wrote:
It's also important to remember that we don't always need to use a lens's optimal aperture -- it depends on the specific requirements of the scene. While stopping down beyond f/8 can reduce image quality due to diffraction, this can be mitigated in post and it might be necessary to achieve sufficient depth of field in certain situations. On the other hand, using wider apertures may introduce more aberrations, which can also diminish image quality. Knowing a lens's optimal aperture is valuable, but we shouldn't be afraid to use other apertures, even if they are extreme, to portray the...Show more →

IMO end use is a critical factor (size, media type, viewing distances, etc.). But I think for most of us it's an unknown, therefore the preference is to aim as high as possible for best image quality (pixel level sharpness) to address as wide a range of end uses as possible.

Aug 21, 2024 at 10:15 PM

saxguy
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p.8 #20 · p.8 #20 · Voigtlander 50mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar Review

The CV 50/3.5 APO is intriguing to me. I do a lot of on location shooting at restaurants and other culinary events. Most of my close up work is between f/4 and f/6.3. I usually take my 50mm APO Summicron-SL, but this would make for a much lighter and smaller setup.

Aug 21, 2024 at 11:16 PM

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