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6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

TR3B
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

I’ve asked this before and have never seen a definitive answer.

If I have a Leica camera with 6mo remaining on my warranty and it goes in for servicing or repairs and sits in Germany longer than my remaining warranty, does Leica extend my warranty for the six months and any further time it sits there?

To me, that is a serious consideration given the logjam customers are seeing, M11 or otherwise. Not everyone has the cheese to own multiple Leica bodies, although buying used I’ve acquired a M262 and M9M.

Aug 07, 2024 at 08:51 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

Aug 07, 2024 at 09:13 PM

Desmolicious
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

TR3B wrote:
I’ve asked this before and have never seen a definitive answer.

If I have a Leica camera with 6mo remaining on my warranty and it goes in for servicing or repairs and sits in Germany longer than my remaining warranty, does Leica extend my warranty for the six months and any further time it sits there?

To me, that is a serious consideration given the logjam customers are seeing, M11 or otherwise. Not everyone has the cheese to own multiple Leica bodies, although buying used I’ve acquired a M262 and M9M.

In California by law they have to extend the warranty for the amount of time it was out of service. This is for any consumer product. Also as I mentioned before in California you can use the Lemon Law to get a full refund if they are unable to repair you camera within a certain time frame and/or number of attempts.

Check your Oregon laws.

Leica of course doesn’t want anyone to know they can use the Lemon Law! And this is why I regretted buying my new film scratching M6 from overseas to save a few $$$. If I bought it in CA I could have Lemon Law-d it.

The only way Leica will change their ways is if their customers refuse to be treated like this.

Aug 07, 2024 at 09:54 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

TR3B wrote:
I’ve asked this before and have never seen a definitive answer.

If I have a Leica camera with 6mo remaining on my warranty and it goes in for servicing or repairs and sits in Germany longer than my remaining warranty, does Leica extend my warranty for the six months and any further time it sits there?

To me, that is a serious consideration given the logjam customers are seeing, M11 or otherwise. Not everyone has the cheese to own multiple Leica bodies, although buying used I’ve acquired a M262 and M9M.

Non-warranty repairs come with a one year warranty, so I'd argue the warranty should be extended by one year from when you get it back.

My experience over the years has been that more often than not, Leica might still do the non-warranty repair under warranty if it's not simply normal wear and tear. For example, my out of warranty M240's shutter failed and there was also something 'welded' to the sensor cover glass they couldn't remove. I had to pay for the sensor replacement and they did the shutter replacement at no charge. The catch was I had to replace the sensor to get the free shutter replacement. They wouldn't let me 'live with' the spot on the sensor because 'it was not up to Leica's standards to release the camera with that defect.'

I have a couple lenses that need servicing but this topic is the reason I haven't sent them in and just live with the degraded user experience... Unfortunately if wait time is indeed that long, things have gotten worse. IIRC some years ago Leica USA aimed to turn around cameras in under a month and lenses within two months. Are others experiencing long Leica USA turn around too, or is it just Germany?

Aug 07, 2024 at 11:41 PM

chasdfg
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

stgrove wrote:
If one buys Leica be prepared to own 2 (at least of each model) M so that if one must go to Germany for repair you still have a second camera to use.

I am not kidding here, but getting an M11 costs $18k and the M11M costs $18.4K since one needs 2 bodies for M purchases.

This is why I have branched out in the last 4-5 years and now own other brands which in my case perform perfectly right out of the box. So with those brands I have been able to get away with one model instead of the...Show more →

One of the Leica techs here told me to buy another body (jokingly) when I lamented being away from my only camera (M body) for months cause it went back to Germany for calibration.

A couple of months ago someone here posted an April Fools thread on Leica revamping it's customer service and repair centres with the focus on the consumer. I actually did believe it for a moment and got excited. I've a love-hate relationship with the brand and association with it, with much of the hate or strong dislike coming from customer service, snobbery and service turnaround times. I've spent most of the past year selling off all my Leica gear and I've only got 1 lens left. If this aspect of Leica was fixed and there was a more equal playing field for customers in general (I know Leica has favourites in terms of customers and would give priority to them, cause money and connections talk), I would certainly strongly consider coming back. Not that my view as it stands matters to them since I'm a nobody.

Aug 08, 2024 at 02:44 AM

KLaban
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work!

I've saved this thread on my desktop as a reminder when I'm tempted to once again buy into Leica then just don't!

It's such a pity particularly as I spent many a happy year with Leica in hand.

Aug 08, 2024 at 03:46 AM

johnvanr
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

This is what I received from Leica about repair times:

Wir möchten an dieser Stelle auf unsere Reparaturdauer hinweisen.
Nach Auftragserteilung und vorbehaltlich der Verfügbarkeit aller Teile beträgt diese zum Zeitpunkt der
Einsendung (ohne Gewähr):
Kameras
Analoge M Kameras: 12 Monate (+ Versand)
Digitale M Kameras: 4 Monate (+ Versand)
S Kamera: 1 Monat (+ Versand)
SL Kamera: 4 Monate (+ Versand)
Q + Kompakt: 4 Monate (+ Versand)
Objektive
Aktuelle Objektive: 5 Monate (+ Versand)
Ältere/Klassische: 8 Monate (+ Versand)

The irony in my case was that they had actually repaired it while I waited, but I still got these emails.

This is one reason I’m not sure I can stick with Leica. My Canon and Olympus repairs took a week including shipping.

Aug 08, 2024 at 04:06 AM

stgrove
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

johnvanr wrote:
This is what I received from Leica about repair times:

Wir möchten an dieser Stelle auf unsere Reparaturdauer hinweisen.
Nach Auftragserteilung und vorbehaltlich der Verfügbarkeit aller Teile beträgt diese zum Zeitpunkt der
Einsendung (ohne Gewähr):
Kameras
Analoge M Kameras: 12 Monate (+ Versand)
Digitale M Kameras: 4 Monate (+ Versand)
S Kamera: 1 Monat (+ Versand)
SL Kamera: 4 Monate (+ Versand)
Q + Kompakt: 4 Monate (+ Versand)
Objektive
Aktuelle Objektive: 5 Monate (+ Versand)
Ältere/Klassische: 8 Monate (+ Versand)

The irony in my case was that they had actually repaired it while I waited, but I still got these emails.

This is one reason I’m not sure I can stick with Leica....Show more →

As for other brands I sent in a Fuji GFX 50R for a reason I do not remember when it first came out and got a turn around in 3 days.

Aug 08, 2024 at 06:27 AM

stgrove
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

Fred Miranda wrote:
It’s definitely been a long wait for service. I’m starting to wonder if the M11 series issues are causing delays. My M-D has been in Germany for quite some time, and I doubt I’ll see it this year.

Leica USA is generally faster, but if the gear needs to be sent to the factory, be prepared for some frustration.

Could be the M11 issues as you say Fred. But to me it is the creeping in new work ethic that has elongated all repair times, where freedom of when you want come in and work has the company crippled. Slow death from inside. In my examples below I I try to explain was has been happening in West Germany even before Merkel let in 1 million Syrians who do not eat pork, one main staple food in Germany.

IMHO, It started many years ago where each East German who relocated to the West was given IIRC 5000 marks per month for doing nothing. Those that needed a car were given one. At a famous small company I do not care to mention, one East German engineer was offered a job, but he said the 30 km drive from where he lived was too far and turned down the job.

Another example, at a hotel who's owner I knew, mentioned that one day the lady doing the washing said sheets etc were not coming down the cute to her work in the basement. So the owner went upstairs to see what was the bottleneck. She found a recent East German hire smoking on a balcony and while examining the room all the sheets and laundry was on the floor in every room he was assigned. When she asked him why he did not put the laundry into the chute for washing, he said in the East that was another person whom picked up the laundry and put it in the chute. She said to him well in the West YOU are expected to remove items and put them in the cute. He refused and she fired him on the spot.

Very different work ethics.

Aug 08, 2024 at 06:44 AM

johnvanr
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

stgrove wrote:
Could be the M11 issues as you say Fred. But to me it is the creeping in new work ethic that has elongated all repair times, where freedom of when you want come in and work has the company crippled. Slow death from inside. In my examples below I I try to explain was has been happening in West Germany even before Merkel let in 1 million Syrians who do not eat pork, one main staple food in Germany.

IMHO, It started many years ago where each East German who relocated to the West was given IIRC 5000 marks per month...Show more →

I think you may have some issues on causality and generalization.

Aug 08, 2024 at 09:04 AM

Mark Sisco
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

Just sent my M to NJ for repair and they quoted 6 weeks. I asked if it has to go to Germany, and that I have been hearing turnarounds are taking 6 months. They replied saying it will be repaired in NJ and that they stand by the 6 week estimate. Hoping this is the case.

Aug 08, 2024 at 09:39 AM

rscheffler
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

johnvanr wrote:
This is what I received from Leica about repair times:

Wir möchten an dieser Stelle auf unsere Reparaturdauer hinweisen.
Nach Auftragserteilung und vorbehaltlich der Verfügbarkeit aller Teile beträgt diese zum Zeitpunkt der
Einsendung (ohne Gewähr):
Kameras
Analoge M Kameras: 12 Monate (+ Versand)
Digitale M Kameras: 4 Monate (+ Versand)
S Kamera: 1 Monat (+ Versand)
SL Kamera: 4 Monate (+ Versand)
Q + Kompakt: 4 Monate (+ Versand)
Objektive
Aktuelle Objektive: 5 Monate (+ Versand)
Ältere/Klassische: 8 Monate (+ Versand)

The irony in my case was that they had actually repaired it while I waited, but I still got these emails.

This is one reason I’m not sure I can stick with Leica....Show more →

Glad you were able to get it resolved on the spot!

I do wonder how often they get queue jumpers, like your situation

Aug 08, 2024 at 11:29 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

Mark Sisco wrote:
Just sent my M to NJ for repair and they quoted 6 weeks. I asked if it has to go to Germany, and that I have been hearing turnarounds are taking 6 months. They replied saying it will be repaired in NJ and that they stand by the 6 week estimate. Hoping this is the case.

If the repair can be handled in NJ, the turnaround time isn't too long. The issue if when it needs to be sent back to Wetzlar.

Aug 08, 2024 at 11:48 AM

johnvanr
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

rscheffler wrote:
Glad you were able to get it resolved on the spot!

I do wonder how often they get queue jumpers, like your situation

(not to say you did it intentionally), where someone brings something, in-person, and asks for or is offered immediate turnaround? This possibly pulls a tech out of their routine, who has to adapt to this last minute situation on the fly. Maybe it's nothing. I'm just thinking about my own photo workflow whenever I get such an interruption in the middle of what I'm working on...

Leica Germany offered a couple faster turnaround service levels and I'm...Show more →

I really don’t know. There was another person there, also with a camera that needed something. They tell you on the phone you can drop by and I’m sure that if they can’t fix it right away, it’ll go in the queue. On the phone they told me something will just sit in the queue for at least a week before they even look at it.

Also, mine was a reset, something that I think they should be able to do in the Leica stores. The pace in the building is very relaxed with several people just sitting around ostensibly doing nothing.

Aug 08, 2024 at 12:03 PM

1bwana1
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

Honestly I don't think that long service times for products under warranty can be justified. Especially by a premium priced brand. The customer has paid money for the product and has a legitimate right to a usable copy of that product. More so when that product is used in a professional capacity to generate money for his/her business.

This is not that difficult to manage. The company knows how many of each product they have sold. They also know the frequency, and nature, of the problems they will encounter based on their sales numbers. Leica knows these answers well enough to make service time projections as outlined in John previously posted email. Leica is just applying an unacceptably long service time frame. The company should be able to staff their service center, and keep a sufficient supply of parts on hand to provide service in a reasonable time frame. If the company receives a warranty service item that cannot be repaired in that time frame, then they should just swap for a new copy. Again, they should keep stock on hand to do this.

The time frame for warranty service should ideally be 30 days or less. But, even 60 days would probably be seen as acceptable. Look, this is just a reasonable cost of doing business, that should be manageable logistacly, and financially. If it is not, then in my opinion the company has deeper QA and product suitability requirements that need to be addressed. I would not be opposed to regulation that enforces such a consumer protection policy. In fact having this would force a level playing field on an industry.

The reason for not voluntarily doing this is purely financial. The company is shifting the burden of QA on to it's customers. This should not be accepted by either the customer, or regulatory agencies. In Leica's specific case it is discomforting to read that the Company is having its best financial years ever, and at the same time asking its customers to bear the burden of cost saving customer service policies and performance.

Aug 08, 2024 at 12:06 PM

1bwana1
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

johnvanr wrote:
Also, mine was a reset, something that I think they should be able to do in the Leica stores. The pace in the building is very relaxed with several people just sitting around ostensibly doing nothing.

I also noticed that lack of an efficient work ethic at the Leica factory during my recent visit. In fact I was shocked by it. I commented on it during my posts about my visit here. My first working experiences in Germany were in the 1970s. At that time Germany stood out as a efficient place to do business. That was also my experience partnering with German companies in manufacturing. During the last 30 years or so my focus when it came to manufacturing shifted to the East. So much so that I haven't even visited Germany since the late 1990s. On my visit this past June I was shocked by the huge changes in efficiency, service, cleanliness, and down grading of pretty much everything that I associated with Germany in the past.

There is no way I would build a factory, nor partner with one in that environment. No way.

I am curious if the Germans know how far they have fallen, or if this change is so endemic and slow that like the frog in a pot of heating water they just don't notice that much. It is my feeling that in the end, it will not go well.

Sad...

Aug 08, 2024 at 12:18 PM

RoamingScott
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

Fred Miranda wrote:
My M-D has been in Germany for quite some time, and I doubt I’ll see it this year.

On it's own, this is a CRAZY statement!

Aug 08, 2024 at 12:23 PM

johnvanr
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

1bwana1 wrote:
I also noticed that lack of an efficient work ethic at the Leica factory during my recent visit. In fact I was shocked by it. I commented on it during my posts about my visit here. My first working experiences in Germany were in the 1970s. At that time Germany stood out as a efficient place to do business. That was also my experience partnering with German companies in manufacturing. During the last 30 years or so my focus when it came to manufacturing shifted to the East. So much so that I haven't even visited Germany since the late...Show more →

I’ve had issues with all BMWs I’ve owned, but my last one was actually built in South Africa. I’ll never buy a BMW again, though. This from someone who now drives an Alfa Romeo, the irony…

I can’t speak for Germany overall, but in Holland the benefits (and the ease of making money in the drugs trade) have resulted in a lot of people choosing not working or working part time over a career. My brother owns a business there and has real issues getting and keeping personnel.

That said, customer service in stores etc. is still often better than in the US, at least the NY region I recently left.

As I wrote before, it’s hard to generalize. All I know for sure that from my perspective Leica sucks at customer service when it comes to sending gear in for repair. And don’t buy a BMW and keep it more than three years

Aug 08, 2024 at 12:39 PM

1bwana1
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

johnvanr wrote:
I’ve had issues with all BMWs I’ve owned, but my last one was actually built in South Africa. I’ll never buy a BMW again, though. This from someone who now drives an Alfa Romeo, the irony…

My last BMW experience ended my relationship with BMW for the rest of my life. No more BMWs for me, ever.

Aug 08, 2024 at 01:10 PM

retrofocus
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · 6-12 month wait for Leica Germany to perform warranty work

1bwana1 wrote:
I also noticed that lack of an efficient work ethic at the Leica factory during my recent visit. In fact I was shocked by it. I commented on it during my posts about my visit here. My first working experiences in Germany were in the 1970s. At that time Germany stood out as a efficient place to do business. That was also my experience partnering with German companies in manufacturing. During the last 30 years or so my focus when it came to manufacturing shifted to the East. So much so that I haven't even visited Germany since the late...Show more →

I wish I could contradict you - but I have to 100% agree with you also from my experience. I am German and Germany has significantly deteriorated in the past 20 years. I don't want to go into political matters here since this is not the right forum for it. It was one reason why I left my home country and immigrated to the US. I am going back once per year since I still have relatives there, but I am not delighted at all by what I am seeing there.

johnvanr wrote:
I can’t speak for Germany overall, but in Holland the benefits (and the ease of making money in the drugs trade) have resulted in a lot of people choosing not working or working part time over a career. My brother owns a business there and has real issues getting and keeping personnel.

Same is true now in Germany. Many live from the social net which was implemented as a very good idea originally after WWII but is now very abused and not encouraging motivation to work. Especially the current government mishandled this situation (even many issues there before, too).

Aug 08, 2024 at 01:55 PM

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