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Have we become allergic to contrast?

  
 
jimmy462
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Have we become allergic to contrast?


highdesertmesa wrote:
I watched a video today that made me think about its implication for stills photography: >snip<


Disclaimer: printing is not my bailiwick and I make no aspirations towards art.

Thanks for the great topic, I'm always interested to read how others approach their imaging pursuits...a great bunch of follow-up posts, thanks for making my morning coffee that much more enjoyable!

At the end of the day we're all trying to do the same thing...take the information from our capture method and decide what of that information will make it into our incongruous presentation method. As I've always seen it, to that end, there are no hard-set rights or wrongs merely the personal choices and preferences and sensibilities and intents that we decide.

My interest here, I look forward to the days of ≥16-stops, ≥8K/120P sensors and ≥2,000-nit, ≥10-bit displays...hope I live long enough to play with those toys!

As for your linked video, lots-of-ignorable-opining-and-theatrics-and-production (for my taste), little-informative-substance (well, IMO)...glad it triggered your interest in starting this topic, though!



Aug 05, 2024 at 09:16 AM
highdesertmesa
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Have we become allergic to contrast?


ISO1600 wrote:
OG Velvia 50 pushed to 100 was hilarious! I was always a Velvia and Provia lover, but would occaisionally shoot Neopan. Neo400 pushed two stops was wild.



If I'm remembering right, I think I had to shoot Velvia at 100 in order to get the best results when cross processed. I was using some mail-order lab in NYC, and they were producing stunning results from 6x7 and 6x9 negatives off the Fuji fixed lens cameras I was using. To this day, I've never seen a film sim/preset that looks anything like it.



Aug 05, 2024 at 09:25 AM
q-w-z
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Have we become allergic to contrast?


Looked like a mix of two different (mis)conceptions:
Firstly, there is nothing technically bad in capture all available brightness range.
Secondly, there is no good not to know what to do with it.

In film days they used to say 'shoot soft, print contrast' i.e. you can and have to choose how to develop and print 'cause print media (not a screen In the age of HDR displays) is always very limited by nature.

Choosing a particular narrow range inside captured wider is a very demanding creative moment of work. It is not limited nowadays by single try (when you choose film and developer) but still demanding, like proper framing.

Obsession with highest possible DR is somewhat similar to idea of capture infinite DOF and wide possible angle i.e. to shoot everything with 12mm F11 or even Insta360 120 fps 4K 24 hours, 7 days per week to 'crop' afterwards;-]

So, ability to choose a proper contrast and tonal range is a matter of professional attitude, like working fixed-focal, manual focus, slow-aperture hand-held in time of super-duper AF, 120 fps, super-zoom...


Edited on Aug 06, 2024 at 02:00 AM · View previous versions



Aug 05, 2024 at 10:03 AM
philip_pj
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Have we become allergic to contrast?


Yes, there is certainly no crime in leaving parts of the histogram vacant at either end. Many lenses do not handle highlights with grace, as as example.

It's an artistic pursuit and that is the best part of the process to be honest, for which you have to enjoy post-processing.

All that said, wide dynamic range is, however, the best yardstick for sensor-based image quality, for shadow recovery and to provide the best 'clean canvas' for your moves in post.

Like many, I have lost a lot of images to Subject Brightness Range (SBR) (which is a scene attribute) so wide that the camera used simply could not record it satisfactorily. I refer here to landscape photography in particular. You had to walk away.

This is also true for documentary work in harsh light conditions, where the aim is to record the subject faithfully, with credible detail and colour. In distant and remote environments, you need a high hit rate and that is what wide DR provides.

I do agree there is a threshold above which the wider DR is not necessary or desired, given the other factors involved. The top tier of cameras for DR is dominated by large, heavy and unwieldy devices that I would not personally use. On average, they grant you an extra stop or so of range, but if a 200kw car does the job, who needs a 250kw one?

Click 'Maximum PDR' to order the camera list bottom left here:

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

These are the reasons we all owe Sony Corporation a debt of gratitude for lighting the fire under their posteriors. God knows how long it would have taken the sleeping Rip Van Winkle duopoly to wake from their comfortable slumber.

Sony came along at the exact right time, speaking personally. I post this information every few years because, to paraphrase Robert Louis Stevenson in Treasure Island: 'people have a grand memory for forgetting'.



Aug 05, 2024 at 05:23 PM
brick33308
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Have we become allergic to contrast?


interesting post. I lean toward high contrast in by b/w conversions (including lots of vignetting) and been criticized for it. Not that I care, I produce images for my enjoyment, not so concerned about how they're viewed by others.




















Aug 05, 2024 at 07:50 PM
philip_pj
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Have we become allergic to contrast?


These are very good indeed.


Aug 06, 2024 at 05:03 PM
 


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Geoff CB
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Have we become allergic to contrast?


I actually work as a colorist and this has become an issue in some ways. The director will work alongside the editor and instead of putting a LUT on the footage, will just edit with the log color in place. Director gets used to the look and when I bring contrast back they will be upset and "want the look we had out of camera".


Aug 07, 2024 at 11:14 AM
Desmolicious
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Have we become allergic to contrast?


brick33308 wrote:
interesting post. I lean toward high contrast in by b/w conversions (including lots of vignetting) and been criticized for it. Not that I care, I produce images for my enjoyment, not so concerned about how they're viewed by others.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Photography/2018-6-1-Terpsicorps-studio-work/i-7Z2jRQL/0/LJGNZGdqwGtjZF3Sg2qCjrd9hCQXvQjcr99ks4LWq/X3/DSC08850bw-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Photography/2018-6-1-Terpsicorps-studio-work/i-sLPTWww/0/KfzJkw3GXWm7JLhNgrp6n8KmfHZFBs25837nLCtSG/X3/DSC09093%20BW-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Photography/2018-6-20-Terpsicorps-dress-rehearsal-selection/i-JxG72nV/0/MW3vFVHXcjkJLnXVXd9wKRTtsz6GdBR5hFfL2Z48q/X3/L1110665bw-X3.jpg


I love these! You do you, they are awesome!



Aug 07, 2024 at 12:45 PM
brick33308
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Have we become allergic to contrast?


Desmolicious wrote:
I love these! You do you, they are awesome!


thanks Huss, coming from someone's work I always enjoy, especially your film shots, it means a lot!



Aug 08, 2024 at 06:35 AM
RoamingScott
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Have we become allergic to contrast?


Geoff CB wrote:
I actually work as a colorist and this has become an issue in some ways. The director will work alongside the editor and instead of putting a LUT on the footage, will just edit with the log color in place. Director gets used to the look and when I bring contrast back they will be upset and "want the look we had out of camera".


That makes the director a dummy



Aug 08, 2024 at 07:54 AM
Geoff CB
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Have we become allergic to contrast?


RoamingScott wrote:
That makes the director a dummy


They seem to be my repeat customers.



Aug 08, 2024 at 08:27 AM
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