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Have we become allergic to contrast?

nehemiahphoto
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

I personally am not allergic to contrast in modern glass, though I can say I lean towards softer/older lenses the longer I shoot. Not for any technical reasons (claims of better DR or whatever). Nor to make my images "filmy." Often I process my photos "digitally" which I define as not filmic presets or intentional.

The one thing that I think is extremely boring and prevalent is very high contrast and resolution across the frame with very smooth bokeh. Such an overdone and uninteresting look to me. I great prefer a lens like the 35 Lux ASPH or ZM 35/1.4 or Q2 or the Leica SL to something like a GM 35/1.4. Some personality or signature please--something distinctive about the images.

If I wanted that look, I still think the RX1 sonnar is the best at it, but I even find that lens a bit boring at times.

Edited on Aug 01, 2024 at 02:50 PM · View previous versions

Aug 01, 2024 at 01:58 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

Lately, there's been a trend toward using lower contrast in still images to replicate a film look. This approach is evident both in the use of strong diffuser filters and through post-processing techniques. Many people have shared videos and articles about adjusting curves in post-processing to achieve this "cinematic" or "film-like" effect.
This method might be effective in some cases, but how well it works usually depends on the message and objective of the photography.

Aug 01, 2024 at 02:06 PM

bjhurley
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

It's weird, because all of the film look emulations I've tried for digital photos or video increase contrast rather than decrease it. It does depend on the specific film being emulated; some do decrease contrast and flatten the image. But most increase it.

DaVinci Resolve, which is one of several prominent color-grading applications used by Hollywood studios, has a new Film Look Creator in Resolve 19, which is still in beta. It's an amazing tool even if you aren't specifically aiming to emulate a particular film, but if you look at the in-depth demo here by Cullen Kelly you'll see that right off the bat it increases contrast.

https://youtu.be/7m77CXt39i0?si=__5NSBUaLKSKUBUg

Aug 01, 2024 at 02:28 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

Hard to listen to that guy for too long, though – too much "upspeak" (ending sentences that are statements as if they were questions).

Edited on Aug 01, 2024 at 02:46 PM · View previous versions

Aug 01, 2024 at 02:46 PM

Desmolicious
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

You want contrast? Shoot a roll of Iford/Harman Phoenix! High contrast with blown highlights, lost shadows and an orange grainy cast all in the same image!
I actually bought two more rolls (B&H has it discounted) for when I intentionally want that look.

Aug 01, 2024 at 02:46 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

Desmolicious wrote:
You want contrast? Shoot a roll of Iford/Harman Phoenix! High contrast with blown highlights, lost shadows and an orange grainy cast all in the same image!
I actually bought two more rolls (B&H has it discounted) for when I intentionally want that look.

My favorite film contrast is still cross-processed Velvia. Not sure how many labs still do that and print it well.

Aug 01, 2024 at 02:49 PM

bjhurley
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

highdesertmesa wrote:
Video creators get all the cool tools

Hard to listen to that guy for too long, though – too much "upspeak" (ending sentences that are statements as if they were questions).

I know, it's irritating! There's a lot that I don't like about him: his clickbait titles, always referring to himself as a Pro Colorist, his use of insider-style abbreviations ("value prop" for value proposition, "look dev" for look development), etc. but he really knows his stuff and is an excellent teacher. I've seen live conference presentations by him and during the Q&A period nobody has been able to stump him; he has a well-thought-out answer to every question. I've pretty much adopted his color grading workflow and I've learned a lot from his tutorials.

Aug 01, 2024 at 02:52 PM

nehemiahphoto
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

bjhurley wrote:
It's weird, because all of the film look emulations I've tried for digital photos or video increase contrast rather than decrease it. It does depend on the specific film being emulated; some do decrease contrast and flatten the image. But most increase it.

DaVinci Resolve, which is one of several prominent color-grading applications used by Hollywood studios, has a new Film Look Creator in Resolve 19, which is still in beta. It's an amazing tool even if you aren't specifically aiming to emulate a particular film, but if you look at the in-depth demo here by Cullen Kelly you'll see that...Show more →

His videoed are great—really a cut above most of the youtube turtotials I have found. And, somehow they are free!

The words “filmic” and “cinematic” don’t make much sense to me, aside from being overused. It’s more a definition of negation it seems—not modern, clean, crisp.

There’s been so many different films over so many decades. Want tons of punch? Shoot slide film. Want washed out but pleasing pastels? Shoot Potra160 pushed a stop.

I think a lot of people are not understanding that high global contrast and modern dynamic range versus having less contrast within certain DR (film).

What Fred posted is really common, just raise the floor on blacks. Often infuse some odd split toning. I think that’s what film means for many.

Aug 01, 2024 at 03:06 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

nehemiahphoto wrote:
His videoed are great—really a cut above most of the youtube turtotials I have found. And, somehow they are free!

The words “filmic” and “cinematic” don’t make much sense to me, aside from being overused. It’s more a definition of negation it seems—not modern, clean, crisp.

There’s been so many different films over so many decades. Want tons of punch? Shoot slide film. Want washed out but pleasing pastels? Shoot Potra160 pushed a stop.

I think a lot of people are not understanding that high global contrast and modern dynamic range versus having less contrast within certain DR (film).

What Fred posted is...Show more →

Re: raising the blacks, I think this is why older vintage low contrast lenses can be fun to use, and the results seem more organic. This is also the reason I love shooting the Leica monochrome cameras. Even with high contrast lenses, as long as I don't use a color filter, the results as the DNGs appear in post are very natural with no crushed blacks. The only drawback to the monochrome cameras is if I blow the highlights, it ruins the illusion. I wish Leica would offer a highlights-focused version of something like Nikon's Active-D lighting function – underexpose a bit, and use a curve to pull down the highlights and push the shadows – then apply the results to the DNG, not just the JPEGs.

Aug 02, 2024 at 09:42 AM

Desmolicious
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

I was trying to see if I ever took a low contrast shot, and this is the best I could come up with.

Aug 02, 2024 at 10:54 AM

rscheffler
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

Desmolicious wrote:
You want contrast? Shoot a roll of Iford/Harman Phoenix! High contrast with blown highlights, lost shadows and an orange grainy cast all in the same image!
I actually bought two more rolls (B&H has it discounted) for when I intentionally want that look.

highdesertmesa wrote:
My favorite film contrast is still cross-processed Velvia. Not sure how many labs still do that and print it well.

I was going to post earlier that you must have a few decades of photography experience, and the above seems to prove it.

Back in the early 90s when I was in school, cross-processing was a big fad. We had a color lab and could do our own color printing, so had total control over the final results. Another trend then was Polaroid transfers.

Given you've been in photography for a while you'll know that trends/fads come and go. If there is currently a low contrast trend, it will eventually be succeeded by another look, and then another, etc., etc.

I don't follow much social media so wasn't sure if there was a low contrast trend. Then today while browsing my telecom's website, I couldn't help but think about this thread because all of their photography was low contrast with shadows opened as much as possible, highlights pulled back and pastel colors. Indeed it looked like lightly processed log files.

On the other hand, one of my clients recently updated their branding and the photography guidelines they issued are essentially the opposite. They want employee portraiture to look like lower on the horizon direct morning or evening sunlight with high contrast transitions and dark/black shadows. It actually looks great in their sample images, all of youngish lifestyle models carefully placed in lighter to mid tone environments with earthy color palettes, but in actuality rather difficult to achieve in 'real world' office environments (the guidelines were probably developed by young staff) but that's the photographer's (my) problem to deal with, haha. The guidelines also forbid outdoor environmental portraiture, ironically... Anyway, this is a look that is more in the direction that I prefer - rich and full in tonality but not over the top. And their images don't look over processed either - no harsh texture/clarity/dehaze, for example.

For my own images I generally aim to export with a full tonal range (if that represents the scene), fairly faithful color/saturation and avoid clipping if possible. Part of this might be from looking back at more highly processed images and kind of regretting how the harsher edits were baked in while my imaging preferences changed years later. (Though I can still reprocess the original RAW files if I really want to.) Looking back at how I've processed images over the years, there have been swings in my processing preferences. About 15 years ago it was higher contrast with more clarity and then it swung in the opposite direction; I pulled back contrast into minus territory and preferred overall gentler tonality. Now I'm probably somewhere in the middle. For people photography, LR's new AI masking tools have been very useful because I can now apply lower contrast and minus clarity to skin, where I think it usually looks best for non-models, while keeping the rest of the image punchier without tedious manual masking.

Aug 02, 2024 at 12:24 PM

philip_pj
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

The levels and distribution of contrast should serve two masters: the requirements of the composition within its ambient gamut (SBR); and the visual intentions of the photographer. Street and landscape are two examples that are very different, many more genres exist as well, each with their peculiarities and needs.

-------

Older low DR cameras (Canon) forced contrast levels to be very high in output, then Sony moved up and we got around three stops more to expand the creative possibilities with. It was an example of technology changing the way people produced and viewed photographic images in the dominant format. No shortage of blocked up deep blacks in those days, over-saturated colors from DR compression. All forgotten history. Examples:

https://www.flickr.com/cameras/canon/eos_5d_mark_iii/

Dynamic range ISO base-ISO 800: Sony a7r (black) and Canon 5DIII (blue) - the 2013 experience

Aug 02, 2024 at 08:54 PM

RustyBug
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

Nope.


	Kent Southers 2024


	Kent Southers 2024

Aug 03, 2024 at 07:34 AM

philip_pj
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

When you remove colour, you are left with the basics: form, texture and tones. With our modern sensors, it's easy to lift deep shadows in colour images but there is often a cost in mood and emotion. Some images really work better with the emphasis on these 'black and white' aspects than processing certain images as exclusively midtones. It's a balance, like so much else.

Aug 03, 2024 at 06:36 PM

ISO1600
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

highdesertmesa wrote:
My favorite film contrast is still cross-processed Velvia. Not sure how many labs still do that and print it well.

OG Velvia 50 pushed to 100 was hilarious! I was always a Velvia and Provia lover, but would occaisionally shoot Neopan. Neo400 pushed two stops was wild.

Aug 04, 2024 at 10:13 PM

philip_pj
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

Velvia pushed me out of medium format film into digital, then Fuji discontinued Reala 120. Velvia was rated at five stops, but often looked more like three. Contrast central. It led to the boom in graduated neutral density filters. Remember them? Dark hilltops etc. What an aesthetic. Violent greens with no gradation. The 'good' old days!

Aug 05, 2024 at 12:07 AM

fjablo
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

My Nikon D700 has about 9 stops of DR at base ISO and for me that’s when we hit ‚good enough‘. Definitely a contrastier starting point in editing compared to my modern cameras, but I‘ve shot plenty of backlit scenes with it and I can’t imagine a scene where I needed more DR and the light was worth shooting.

But I guess most photographers have to go through the shadows +100 / highlights -100 phase at some point and it seems some get stuck there

Aug 05, 2024 at 01:02 AM

RustyBug
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

philip_pj wrote:
Velvia pushed me out of medium format film into digital, then Fuji discontinued Reala 120. Velvia was rated at five stops, but often looked more like three. Contrast central. It led to the boom in graduated neutral density filters. Remember them? Dark hilltops etc. What an aesthetic. Violent greens with no gradation. The 'good' old days!

Coming from Velvia ... the chase / race for the latest / greatest / mostest DR (in digital) never interested me that much. I mean, if you could shoot with Velvia, by the time we hit double digits for DR in digital, an extra stop of DR that camera X came out with wasn't a deal maker / breaker either way (for me).

I think the biggest difference that I have in terms of DR / shadows, is that I don't have a massive desire to turn all my shadows into key exposure values. Since shadows provide modeling and mood ... I rather embrace them, moreover than try to erase them, but hopefully without them being blocked up so bad they look like they were shot on Pan. When I do "lift" my shadows, I'm usually not trying to convert them into key values, that so many "gotta have the most DR possible" shooters seem to strive for.

And, if you think about it ... the use of colored filters in black / white photography has often been about increasing contrast, rather than reducing it.

While I didn't shoot much monochrome in film, I did carry two different films Velvia 50 and VPS 160 ... so, definitely differences in profiles, I used VPS mostly for weddings, Velvia for most others.

Aug 05, 2024 at 06:33 AM

RustyBug
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

fjablo wrote:
My Nikon D700 has about 9 stops of DR at base ISO and for me that’s when we hit ‚good enough‘. Definitely a contrastier starting point in editing compared to my modern cameras, but I‘ve shot plenty of backlit scenes with it and I can’t imagine a scene where I needed more DR and the light was worth shooting.

But I guess most photographers have to go through the shadows +100 / highlights -100 phase at some point and it seems some get stuck there

+1 for "some".

Often times, I think that folks who don't embrace the differences and roles between key / shadow / fill / rim / kicker are the ones most prone to turning dark into light via the DR chase.

Aug 05, 2024 at 06:41 AM

photonoclast
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Have we become allergic to contrast?

For me, DR is important for the simple reason that I want a *long* highlight rolloff. I'm often drawn to images with deep blacks (great examples, RustyBug!), but I am highly allergic to blown highlights. I also often shoot contre-jour. So, I tend to shoot a bit dark, and lift to get the midtones right, the result equivalent to negative film with a long tail. It is for this reason that I didn't leave medium format + portra completely until the high-DR sony's came along.

Aug 05, 2024 at 08:30 AM

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