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Don’t Use a Variable Neutral Density Filter for Photography?

lsquare
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Don’t Use a Variable Neutral Density Filter for Photography?

https://fstoppers.com/gear/dont-use-variable-neutral-density-filter-photography-668910

But even the expensive ones, with a limited neutral density range, are best to be avoided, at least for photography.

Comments?

Jul 23, 2024 at 09:07 PM

GroovyGeek
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Don’t Use a Variable Neutral Density Filter for Photography?

Has been known for a really long time. VariNDs were popularized by Singh-Ray I believe. In addition to a very limited useful range of attenuation they also suffered from vignettibg on wide lenses due to their increased thickness.

The title of the article is correct - variNDs serve little to no useful function in landscapes for the reasons stated.

Jul 23, 2024 at 11:17 PM

lsquare
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Don’t Use a Variable Neutral Density Filter for Photography?

GroovyGeek wrote:
Has been known for a really long time. VariNDs were popularized by Singh-Ray I believe. In addition to a very limited useful range of attenuation they also suffered from vignettibg on wide lenses due to their increased thickness.

The title of the article is correct - variNDs serve little to no useful function in landscapes for the reasons stated.

I don't see Singh-Ray being recommended anymore. Why? I usually see NiSi being recommended. Having said that, I thought the 1-5 stops Vari-ND filters don't have many issues including vignette.

Jul 24, 2024 at 03:56 AM

Choderboy
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Don’t Use a Variable Neutral Density Filter for Photography?

So you don't have a problem with cross hair?

Jul 24, 2024 at 04:35 AM

lsquare
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Don’t Use a Variable Neutral Density Filter for Photography?

Choderboy wrote:
So you don't have a problem with cross hair?

I'm asking.

Jul 24, 2024 at 05:04 AM

Choderboy
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Don’t Use a Variable Neutral Density Filter for Photography?

Asking what?

I did not know about cross hair.
The fstoppers link mentioned it and some Googling showed more examples.
It seems like a deal breaker to me.
I thought the biggest issue with variable NDs is colour cast. Just as unwanted as cross hair to me.

Anyway, I'm not the best person to ask.

But, obviously, I did ask you if cross hair information was something that concerned you.
A minute or two shows it's not something fstoppers are alone in mentioning that and it is something others complain about.

Jul 24, 2024 at 06:05 AM

GroovyGeek
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Don’t Use a Variable Neutral Density Filter for Photography?

lsquare wrote:
I don't see Singh-Ray being recommended anymore. Why? I usually see NiSi being recommended. Having said that, I thought the 1-5 stops Vari-ND filters don't have many issues including vignette.

Don't know who is recommended these days. The last time I played with vari-ND was probably 15 years ago - my experience and information is thus dated.

With that in mind... two problems with Vari-NDs for landscapes back then are both are related to the widespread use of UWA lenses in landscape photography. A polarizer has a wildly non-uniform performance on a 14-16mm lens, so a crossed LP and CP will also suffer. The second thing is that any filter frame thicker than 2mm will vignette on a 14-16mm lens, and variNDs used to have frames in excess of 5mm.

1-5 stops is not nearly enough coverage for landscapes. Most landscape photographers who use NDs carry a set of 3, 5-6, and 10 stop filters. Thus a 1-5 stop vari-ND, even if it does not suffer from a cross-hair effect on the 5-stop end, is not a solution. If you still need to buy a 10 stop filter you might as well not deal with the cost and limitation of vari-ND.

Last but not least, magnetic mount filters and EVFs have eliminated the one useful feature of vari-NDs - the ability to compose with a brightly lit VF and then dial-in the attenuation without moving the camera. An EVF these days is capable of amplifying the signal from the sensor sufficiently to compose through a 10-stop ND without any difficulty.

Jul 24, 2024 at 11:28 AM

RoamingScott
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Don’t Use a Variable Neutral Density Filter for Photography?

VNDs are invaluable for video production outdoors. They are the worst form of ND for stills. That's all you really need to know.

Jul 24, 2024 at 11:35 AM

lsquare
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Don’t Use a Variable Neutral Density Filter for Photography?

RoamingScott wrote:
VNDs are invaluable for video production outdoors. They are the worst form of ND for stills. That's all you really need to know.

https://www.amazon.ca/NiSi-Variable-Filter-ND2-ND32-ND-Vario/dp/B09K56L19N/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=LSYQLJHG6O1L&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.8NdvTo6vFNA_bgX6amc9Mdpy7yDah2sqg_4x6-mXXpXUCc1bzifPTcX54T3Gd9NYYGAfhFBfxlcfgCvPz6DoBx7x2eZgq_lB6F8CehYpYqb1OrRf_6OaCjFNxYHswEj51ee_vLrEa6QzdoMAo4MaXKtZAoirjAiuzts_e3CYyUvGHiMWcKkq_ST4Zk4be4UhYPNCBRRNWyu5hvzwQgsDQA.mvj8L1YN8K-o8vyWHN0YSwKIZ6sOV3r_1yr3Nh4FaUw&dib_tag=se&keywords=nisi+vnd&qid=1722025255&sprefix=nisi+%2Caps%2C153&sr=8-1-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.d0e27fc4-6417-4b26-97cb-f959a9930752&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRm&psc=1

From what I gather, this is a highly rated VND filter. The range is rather small so the X-effect shouldn't happen. I'm curious as to why you think this is so bad.

Jul 26, 2024 at 03:23 PM

RoamingScott
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Don’t Use a Variable Neutral Density Filter for Photography?

lsquare wrote:
https://www.amazon.ca/NiSi-Variable-Filter-ND2-ND32-ND-Vario/dp/B09K56L19N/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=LSYQLJHG6O1L&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.8NdvTo6vFNA_bgX6amc9Mdpy7yDah2sqg_4x6-mXXpXUCc1bzifPTcX54T3Gd9NYYGAfhFBfxlcfgCvPz6DoBx7x2eZgq_lB6F8CehYpYqb1OrRf_6OaCjFNxYHswEj51ee_vLrEa6QzdoMAo4MaXKtZAoirjAiuzts_e3CYyUvGHiMWcKkq_ST4Zk4be4UhYPNCBRRNWyu5hvzwQgsDQA.mvj8L1YN8K-o8vyWHN0YSwKIZ6sOV3r_1yr3Nh4FaUw&dib_tag=se&keywords=nisi+vnd&qid=1722025255&sprefix=nisi+%2Caps%2C153&sr=8-1-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.d0e27fc4-6417-4b26-97cb-f959a9930752&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRm&psc=1

From what I gather, this is a highly rated VND filter. The range is rather small so the X-effect shouldn't happen. I'm curious as to why you think this is so bad.

I didn't say "so bad", did I? I said the "worst form of ND for stills". You won't get Xing on a single strength filter ever, and you CAN on a VND. Some VNDs are better than others. Some will display no Xing at certain focal lengths and strengths, and some will.

Jul 26, 2024 at 03:30 PM

JBPhotog
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Don’t Use a Variable Neutral Density Filter for Photography?

There are many genres' in photography and to state "don't use a VND in photography" come from a very simplistic understanding of what each genre needs. For example in outdoor flash situations a VND can prevent one needing to use HSS and thus getting more power and higher flash cycles out of your strobes. The Nisi Swift system uses a 1-5 VND and a snap on 4 stop so you essentially have 1 to 9 stops of ND with no X factor or colour bias to correct later.

Edited on Jul 27, 2024 at 01:17 PM · View previous versions

Jul 26, 2024 at 06:46 PM

docusync
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Don’t Use a Variable Neutral Density Filter for Photography?

lsquare wrote:
I don't see Singh-Ray being recommended anymore. Why? I usually see NiSi being recommended. Having said that, I thought the 1-5 stops Vari-ND filters don't have many issues including vignette.

I guess the 1-5 stops VND are easier to make than 5-10. NiSi do not have any color cast, at least the 1-5 stop ones. You can always buy a bigger size filter and a step-up ring if you're afraid of getting vignetting.
My primary VND use is for portraits with strobes (I'm an HSS hater) but sometimes when I travel and don't have the Big Stopper with me - I can stack a couple of VNDs to get a 10 stop effect.

Two 1-5 stops B&W stacked, color cast corrected in post, no "X":

Same:

Jul 26, 2024 at 07:03 PM

GroovyGeek
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Don’t Use a Variable Neutral Density Filter for Photography?

JBPhotog wrote:
There are many genres' in photography and to state "don't use a VND in photography" come from a very simplistic understanding of what each genre needs. For example in outdoor flash situations a VND can prevent one needing to use HSS and thus getting more power and higher flash cycles out of your strobes. The Nisi Swift system uses a 1-5 VND and a snap on 4 stop so you essentially have 1 to 9 stops of ND with no X factor or colour bias to correct later.

The statement in the article linked in the OP was specific to landscapes, not photography in general.

Jul 29, 2024 at 10:50 PM

Daniel Smith
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Don’t Use a Variable Neutral Density Filter for Photography?

Not all landscape work is shot with 14mm lenses.

You use what works and find out what does after actual testing in the field.

Often do landscape work with normal to telephoto lenses.

Jul 31, 2024 at 09:31 PM


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