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R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

lighthound
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

I asked this question over in the main R5II thread but it quickly got buried by all the trolls.

Blur/Out-of-Focus detection
Does anyone know if LR will be able to read the metadata tag that this new feature assigns to the best (sharpest) frames? Or would we have to endure the dreaded DPP?

This to me is would be an extremely useful tool and would save a ton of culling time after shooting critters and pushing the shutter speed to the limit in order to get ISO down.

You would think 1/125 would be a safe speed with a slow critter like this guy but @1/125 I had to take several short bursts to ensure I got one good shot out of 5 or so frames without motion blur.

Canon EOS R5
RF100-500mm F4.5-7.1 L IS USM
ƒ/5.6 300.0 mm 1/125 ISO 800

Jul 18, 2024 at 10:06 AM

numbertwo
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

Lightroom gets the star rating in camera, right?
So, in case we don’t have that feature showing somehow in any kind of sortable metadata in the file by Lightroom, we can always check in camera what pictures the camera thinks are the sharp ones, rate them with some stars and then quickly cull…

Jul 18, 2024 at 11:14 AM

arbitrage
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

I think 3rd party programs will start doing this on their own pretty soon. AI culling programs are already out there and should progress fast. Hopefully LR will add such a feature natively in the next year.

I doubt LR will be able to utilize this in-camera feature. The star workaround mentioned could work. But I feel that would be a lot of wasted effort compared to just using a super fast culling program like FastRawViewer, PhotoMechanic or Winnow.

Jul 18, 2024 at 11:17 AM

lighthound
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

numbertwo wrote:
Lightroom gets the star rating in camera, right?
So, in case we don’t have that feature showing somehow in any kind of sortable metadata in the file by Lightroom, we can always check in camera what pictures the camera thinks are the sharp ones, rate them with some stars and then quickly cull…

But will the "in camera" images be automatically tagged or are they tagged on export into DPP? If they are automatically tagged in camera and then we place stars on them, then that would be an ok work around albeit somewhat of a hassle.

Jul 18, 2024 at 11:31 AM

lighthound
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

arbitrage wrote:
I think 3rd party programs will start doing this on their own pretty soon. AI culling programs are already out there and should progress fast. Hopefully LR will add such a feature natively in the next year.

I doubt LR will be able to utilize this in-camera feature. The star workaround mentioned could work. But I feel that would be a lot of wasted effort compared to just using a super fast culling program like FastRawViewer, PhotoMechanic or Winnow.

I like the way you're thinking. Let's hope these 3rd party programs bring it.
It would be a game changer to me as the culling process is where I really suck. It slows me down tremendously to the point where I often never process any images from that outing and end up walking away to get things done around the house.

Jul 18, 2024 at 11:39 AM

snapsy
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

I fully expect Canon has added an EXIF field to denote this. The question is whether they'll document it - I'm guessing yes, since the entire basis for this cool feature is for workflow optimization, and that would naturally extend into image apps like LR.

Jul 18, 2024 at 11:40 AM

action99
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

Not sure what is unique in doing it in camera, AF point is in the metadata a ML model could simply detect if the image is in focus and sharp. Btw PS already has the algorithm to select in focus so not too much more logic. I expect this to become common in software.

Jul 18, 2024 at 11:43 AM

lighthound
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

snapsy wrote:
I fully expect Canon has added an EXIF field to denote this. The question is whether they'll document it - I'm guessing yes, since the entire basis for this cool feature is for workflow optimization, and that would naturally extend into image apps like LR.

Thanks for weighing in Snaps. You're giving me hope my suffering will soon be over without having to dust -off my DPP.

Jul 18, 2024 at 12:15 PM

lighthound
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

action99 wrote:
Not sure what is unique in doing it in camera, AF point is in the metadata a ML model could simply detect if the image is in focus and sharp. Btw PS already has the algorithm to select in focus so not too much more logic. I expect this to become common in software.

For my purpose at least, I'm not mainly concerned with AF points or focus. I want it to automatically select the sharpest images due to motion blur by either myself, or in the example above, the subject. I've not checked, but I'm pretty sure the AF points in the exif will still be locked on to the desired target (ie. eyeball) but due to motion blur, the image trash worthy.
And of course I get my fair share of just plain oof images as well so it'll help there also.

Jul 18, 2024 at 12:27 PM

Sashi
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

@lighthound

Based on the review in dpreview, there appears to be a metadata tag. If that's indeed the case, then 3rd -party applications can also read the same.

"A metadata tag identifying the most precisely focused images is added to the file and can be used to filter your images, either in playback mode on the camera or in Canon's Digital Photo Pro software, when you get back to your computer."

Credit: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-r5-ii-initial-review - Blur/Out-of-focus Detection section

Jul 18, 2024 at 12:30 PM

Hairy Heron
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

lighthound wrote:
Blur/Out-of-Focus detection
Does anyone know if LR will be able to read the metadata tag that this new feature assigns to the best (sharpest) frames? Or would we have to endure the dreaded DPP?

Vanessa Joy demonstrates this feature using Photo Mechanic in her video so I don't know why LR wouldn't be able to do this as well.

Also, on a side note IIRC, on the B&H video w/ Canon reps I think they briefly mentioned that there was going to be a LR plugin coming that worked with DPP -- guessing the same way other 3rd party software like Topaz works where you can round trip an edit. Has nothing to do with your specific question, of course, but thought I'd add since it's unknown what other functions require DPP.

Jul 18, 2024 at 12:37 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

I like the not blur exif flagging. At 30fps and pre capture - I am likely to leave my precapture on and every wildlife picture will be 15 pre and 30 more (if I get my finger off fast enough) at least each picture. I will need a bigger card AND blur exif flagging. Blur exif flagging will be very helpful, if it works, in not having to go through lots of non viable pictures.

Jul 18, 2024 at 02:01 PM

lighthound
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

Sashi wrote:
@lighthound@

Based on the review in dpreview, there appears to be a metadata tag. If that's indeed the case, then 3rd -party applications can also read the same.

"A metadata tag identifying the most precisely focused images is added to the file and can be used to filter your images, either in playback mode on the camera or in Canon's Digital Photo Pro software, when you get back to your computer."

Credit: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-r5-ii-initial-review - Blur/Out-of-focus Detection section

Yep, I knew they are embedding a tag but wasn't sure if LR would pick it up. It sounds like it's going to happen!

Jul 18, 2024 at 03:23 PM

lighthound
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

Hairy Heron wrote:
Vanessa Joy demonstrates this feature using Photo Mechanic in her video so I don't know why LR wouldn't be able to do this as well.

Also, on a side note IIRC, on the B&H video w/ Canon reps I think they briefly mentioned that there was going to be a LR plugin coming that worked with DPP -- guessing the same way other 3rd party software like Topaz works where you can round trip an edit. Has nothing to do with your specific question, of course, but thought I'd add since it's unknown what other functions require DPP.

Thanks for the info. I'll look for Vanessa Joy's demo. That's interesting that there is going to be a plug-in for LR to DPP but in all honesty, I can't stand using DPP. I have a bad habit of falling to sleep waiting for it to simply regenerate the next image and then hurt my head on my keyboard.

Jul 18, 2024 at 03:26 PM

lighthound
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

Scott Stoness wrote:
I like the not blur exif flagging. At 30fps and pre capture - I am likely to leave my precapture on and every wildlife picture will be 15 pre and 30 more (if I get my finger off fast enough) at least each picture. I will need a bigger card AND blur exif flagging. Blur exif flagging will be very helpful, if it works, in not having to go through lots of non viable pictures.

It's a fantastic new feature isn't it! This might seem silly to some, but this is a major push for me to cave on the R5II. It'll be interesting to see if 3rd party like LR will develop their own version such that any camera images would work without the need for the tag.
I'm sure this tech will need time to iron out the bugs, but it's a huge step in the right direction.

Jul 18, 2024 at 03:33 PM

numbertwo
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

This feature will be very nice for the mentioned burst of animals, sports, etc, but also my concern is landscapes and similar. I’ll explain myself.
- with enough lighting shooting for example at f8, I am used to take a few shots for later on keeping the sharpest. This is something I’m used to do since I was shooting Sony, as all the pictures used to be focused just slightly differently and depending on the characteristics of the lens (like field curvature) in some maybe the edges were slightly sharper than other, or even small changes in the centre. With Canon I feel the AF system is more confident and stable, but I’m still doing this just in case.
- in low light, I tend to shoot a few pictures, putting ibis to it’s limit, to then keep the best one. With a wide angle, for example at 17mm the center will be similar shooting at 0.5s, but upon close inspection you can see how in some pictures the corners are slightly sharpers than others. This culling takes me quite a long time.

So, will this new feature work in this cases, checking also the corners of the pictures for blurriness and chose the very best overall picture even if it’s not a burst but some similar pictures taken close inspection time? Or will it only work for fast bursts checking only the focus point?
I mean, I rarely shoot any sport event and for portraits it’s either I don’t need fast bursts and I will prioritize face expression over critical sharpness…

Jul 18, 2024 at 06:19 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

canon Europe specifications say:

https://www.canon-europe.com/cameras/eos-r5-mark-ii/specifications/

Note 20

Blur/out-of-focus detection may not be performed for some scenes or subjects, or results may be inaccurate. Only JPEG or HEIF images are evaluated, and only when the camera is set to use the electronic shutter and detect people or eyes.

So it may not work in raw. If so that will mean its useless to me.

Jul 18, 2024 at 06:43 PM

numbertwo
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

So it seems I’ll still need to compare edges at 100% in capture one…

Jul 18, 2024 at 06:58 PM

garyvot
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

Scott Stoness wrote:
So it may not work in raw. If so that will mean its useless to me.

Might still be useful if it works for RAW+Jpeg capture.

I imagine it is intended for in-camera culling, as a sports photographer might do on a tight deadline.

It may or may not align with the workflows of wildlife shooters.

Jul 18, 2024 at 09:06 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · R5II Blur/Out-of-Focus detection

garyvot wrote:
Might still be useful if it works for RAW+Jpeg capture.

I imagine it is intended for in-camera culling, as a sports photographer might do on a tight deadline.

It may or may not align with the workflows of wildlife shooters.

I think most wildlife shooters shoot in raw. Shooting in Raw+jpeg for wildlife is not that common for the shooters I know. That's more of a wedding idea. It would not be helpful in culling raw. I am still hopeful but pessimistic that it can work on the previews embedded in raw.

Jul 19, 2024 at 01:22 AM

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