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What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

molson
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p.6 #1 · p.6 #1 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

Jul 22, 2024 at 03:32 PM

Jazzgear296
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p.6 #2 · p.6 #2 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

molson wrote:
Having owned all of the same cameras myself, I can attest that there's little or no discernible difference between 5DsR and R5 files. The 5D IV was not even in the same ballpark as the other two.

Not in my experience as it relates to the files between the 5DsR and the R5 — the former are sharper to my eyes (at base ISO). As for the 5DIV — we are in agreement

Jul 22, 2024 at 04:41 PM

Mike Jacks0n
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p.6 #3 · p.6 #3 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

molson wrote:
Having owned all of the same cameras myself, I can attest that there's little or no discernible difference between 5DsR and R5 files. The 5D IV was not even in the same ballpark as the other two.

If I had a choice now, I would definitely go for a non-low pass setup now, but in all honesty, that feature is pretty low on my want list. I seldom look at a file and think its not sharp enough (5Ds and R5).

Also... I don't think it was just the low pass filter that you preferred. I actually preferred the 5Ds (non 5DsR) files over the R5's (just slightly), and I don't think it was the 5MP difference. They just had a fuller color depth, IMO. There might have been something in the image processing chain as well, because I used to stop in awe on the odd image and think it was just the most incredible resolution I'd ever seen, but that stopped when moving to the R5. Maybe I just got used to the 45MP+ resolution or maybe there was something else to it.

Jul 22, 2024 at 04:47 PM

WJaekel
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p.6 #4 · p.6 #4 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

drobertfranz wrote:
R5II is looking better to me as I look closely at the specs. But that price is a killer for me right now. My wallet is a bit light as it is.. I'm going to play the waiting game on this one look at some quality reviews, save up and perhaps pull the trigger when prices come down as they always do. Now the R1 NO WAY

For the most part, I agree. However, the price of the R5II is a whopping 4800 € here in Germany. If you add a grip and an additional new battery, you nearly pay 5500 €, at least, whereas people currently dump the naked R5 for around 2000 € , often for less. For the most part, the prices for photo equipment on the used market are becoming ridiculous here and the gap will even get wider once the R5II will be available. Even if you could use the BG-10 grip from the R5 for the R5II, too, and thus optionally reduce the steep difference in price just a bit, you're locked out from the new features linked to the new batteries, such as pre- shutter- release function, highest frame rate, some of the 8K video options etc.So the use of the BG-10 on the R5II - if actually possible - makes no sense

Anyway, the R5 that 4 days ago ticked almost all boxes and was considered a high-end and still competitive product is obviously old-fashioned in peoples eyes overnight and more or less worth just a bargain in comparison Of course, technology advances and the R5II may (hopefully) be better in some aspects. It remains to be seen, to which degree the differences in specs are evident in practice, though and if that's foremost also true for IQ given that the resolution is unchanged.

Three and a half years ago, I had bought the R5 for 3900 € plus 300 € for the R10-grip and 90 € for a second battery. The prices had included a little discount from my dealer, though. Nevertheless, the difference to the R5II is 1200 € in comparison..And if I could sell my R5 including the grip for € 2200 or 2300 at best, the difference is around 3200 € ! That's insane. Anyway, you may argue that's "how the market works";-) But everyone is free to follow that trend and contribute to it or not..Certainly, the optional advantages of the R5 II depend on your priorities and shooting style. But 4300 € (R5) vs 5500 € (R5II) or even 2300 € vs. 5500 € (if I sell my R5+ BG10) is beyond any proportionality and rationality for me given that the changes are not ground-braking, IMO - not to mention the present and soon to be expected new products of the competition in comparison as it's discussed in the "Canon departure...."-thread here. I've been shooting Canon for more than 40 years and my heavy investment in Canon cams and lenses prevent me from switching brands. If I would start from the scratch, I probably would go for Nikon, though, since it's pretty obvious that Canon primarily focuses just on sports shooters and journalists now, maybe to a lesser degree on Wedding /Event photogs while Nature and Wildlife photographers aren't their priority.. BTW, I have owned all 1-series cameras over the years but the R1 definetely will be the first "flagship" I'm not interested in. That said, even the new AF+ modes of the R5II are designed just for sports. From the specs, I haven't seen any advanced tracking modes for bird and wildlife shooters. So I guess, there are no changes compared to the R5 classic.

To make a long story short, I'm on a similar boat as you are. The R5II is overpriced, IMO; and I will not spend around 3200€ to upgrade from my still excellent R5. If the price comes down to close the gap considerably which is unlikely, I might think twice.
The R1 is no option for me either, the more as I own the R3, too.

Wolfgang

Jul 22, 2024 at 04:55 PM

Jazzgear296
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p.6 #5 · p.6 #5 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

Mike Jacks0n wrote:
If I had a choice now, I would definitely go for a non-low pass setup now, but in all honesty, that feature is pretty low on my want list. I seldom look at a file and think its not sharp enough (5Ds and R5).

Also... I don't think it was just the low pass filter that you preferred. I actually preferred the 5Ds (non 5DsR) files over the R5's (just slightly), and I don't think it was the 5MP difference. They just had a fuller color depth, IMO. There might have been something in the image processing chain as...Show more →

---------------------------------------------

WJaekel wrote:
For the most part, I agree. However, the price of the R5II is a whopping 4800 € here in Germany. If you add a grip and an additional new battery, you nearly pay 5500 €, at least, whereas people currently dump the naked R5 for around 2000 € , often for less. For the most part, the prices for photo equipment on the used market are becoming ridiculous here and the gap will even get wider once the R5II will be available. Even if you could use the BG-10 grip from the R5 for the R5II, too, and thus optionally reduce the steep difference in price just a bit, you're locked out from the new features linked to the new batteries, such as pre- shutter- release function, highest frame rate, some of the 8K video options etc.So the use of the BG-10 on the R5II - if actually possible - makes no sense

Anyway, the R5 that 4 days ago ticked almost all boxes and was considered a high-end and still competitive product is obviously old-fashioned in peoples eyes overnight and more or less worth just a bargain in comparison Of course, technology advances and the R5II may (hopefully) be better in some aspects. It remains to be seen, to which degree the differences in specs are evident in practice, though and if that's foremost also true for IQ given that the resolution is unchanged.

Three and a half years ago, I had bought the R5 for 3900 € plus 300 € for the R10-grip and 90 € for a second battery. The prices had included a little discount from my dealer, though. Nevertheless, the difference to the R5II is 1200 € in comparison..And if I could sell my R5 including the grip for € 2200 or 2300 at best, the difference is around 3200 € ! That's insane. Anyway, you may argue that's "how the market works";-) But everyone is free to follow that trend and contribute to it or not..Certainly, the optional advantages of the R5 II depend on your priorities and shooting style. But 4300 € (R5) vs 5500 € (R5II) or even 2300 € vs. 5500 € (if I sell my R5+ BG10) is beyond any proportionality and rationality for me given that the changes are not ground-braking, IMO - not to mention the present and soon to be expected new products of the competition in comparison as it's discussed in the "Canon departure...."-thread here. I've been shooting Canon for more than 40 years and my heavy investment in Canon cams and lenses prevent me from switching brands. If I would start from the scratch, I probably would go for Nikon, though, since it's pretty obvious that Canon primarily focuses just on sports shooters and journalists now, maybe to a lesser degree on Wedding /Event photogs while Nature and Wildlife photographers aren't their priority.. BTW, I have owned all 1-series cameras over the years but the R1 definetely will be the first "flagship" I'm not interested in. That said, even the new AF+ modes of the R5II are designed just for sports. From the specs, I haven't seen any advanced tracking modes for bird and wildlife shooters. So I guess, there are no changes compared to the R5 classic.

To make a long story short, I'm on a similar boat as you are. The R5II is overpriced, IMO; and I will not spend around 3200€ to upgrade from my still excellent R5. If the price comes down to close the gap considerably which is unlikely, I might think twice.
The R1 is no option for me either, the more as I own the R3, too.

Wolfgang

...Show more →

While I think the files from the 5DsR looked better to me than the R5, it’s not enough to go back to it. The R5 (or the R5 II)is the better camera all around….but would I jump on a R5sR? In a heart beat

Jul 22, 2024 at 05:11 PM

WJaekel
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p.6 #6 · p.6 #6 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

Jazzgear296 wrote:
While I think the files from the 5DsR looked better to me than the R5, it’s not enough to go back to it. The R5 (or the R5 II)is the better camera all around….but would I jump on a R5sR? In a heart beat

I have both the R5 and 5DsR and I agree that the files of the 5DsR @ low ISOs (100-200) look better to me, too - especially for colors but also a bit for detail. I don't think that's just because of the difference of 5 MP but the lack of the AA filter. Some months ago, I was shooting bee-eaters with the EF 600mm II with 1,4 Ext III when this was evident, - the 5DsR-files had more of a "3D-appearance",too, IMO. It's not a dramatic difference though, and overall, the R5 is a better camera, of course.

Wolfgang

Jul 22, 2024 at 06:11 PM

rscheffler
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p.6 #7 · p.6 #7 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

Jazzgear296 wrote:
Having previously owned the 5DsR, 5DIV and now the R5 I can attest that the images from the 5DsR were much sharper (as are the images from my Sony A7RIV), as would be expected from a camera not having an AA filter.

molson wrote:
Having owned all of the same cameras myself, I can attest that there's little or no discernible difference between 5DsR and R5 files. The 5D IV was not even in the same ballpark as the other two.

Mike Jacks0n wrote:
If I had a choice now, I would definitely go for a non-low pass setup now, but in all honesty, that feature is pretty low on my want list. I seldom look at a file and think its not sharp enough (5Ds and R5).

Also... I don't think it was just the low pass filter that you preferred. I actually preferred the 5Ds (non 5DsR) files over the R5's (just slightly), and I don't think it was the 5MP difference. They just had a fuller color depth, IMO. There might have been something in the image processing chain as...Show more →

Could also be the CFA in the 5Ds is optimized for better color separation and sacrifices higher ISO performance, whereas the R5 has to be an 'all-rounder' camera that will definitely be used in low light conditions at high ISOs and also be compared by this metric against the competition.

I recall the 1DsIII was also beloved by some for its color quality.

WJaekel wrote:
To make a long story short, I'm on a similar boat as you are. The R5II is overpriced, IMO; and I will not spend around 3200€ to upgrade from my still excellent R5. If the price comes down to close the gap considerably which is unlikely, I might think twice.
The R1 is no option for me either, the more as I own the R3, too.

Wolfgang

Not sure what the inflation rate was in Germany over the past 4 years, but if I plug those numbers into the Canadian inflation calculator, it returns about 18%, which is about 4,600. I don't necessarily disagree that there is a degree of early adopter premium, plus the cost of the grip and a few spare "P" batteries that quickly add up. If one doesn't need the camera ASAP, then it's in one's interest to wait for the inevitable price drops or dealer discounts when no longer backordered.

Something we all need to remember is that our money is worth ~20% less in buying power than it was only 4-5 years ago, yet we're still thinking in 2020 dollars/Euros. Of course, when the competition (Nikon) is (was?) selling their formerly $4000 camera for $3500 and some dealers are discounting it further, the R5II is at a premium. But it's freshly launched and to be expected.

Jul 22, 2024 at 09:25 PM

Mike Jacks0n
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p.6 #8 · p.6 #8 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

Jazzgear296 wrote:
---------------------------------------------

While I think the files from the 5DsR looked better to me than the R5, it’s not enough to go back to it. The R5 (or the R5 II)is the better camera all around….but would I jump on a R5sR? In a heart beat

Absolutely agree, I thought the files looked a few percent better, but in no way was it worth the AF and convenience losses. Never really looked back after changing, but I did think it was noteworthy which files I preferred.

Jul 22, 2024 at 09:39 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.6 #9 · p.6 #9 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

Mike Jacks0n wrote:
Absolutely agree, I thought the files looked a few percent better, but in no way was it worth the AF and convenience losses. Never really looked back after changing, but I did think it was noteworthy which files I preferred.

I don’t know if 5DsR files look better than R5. I still use the 5DsR extensively, and have not upgraded to a R5. I was hoping for the previously rumored high-MP R.

But if the files are the same — or so similar that they might as well be — that is part of the explanation for my dissatisfaction with Canon at the moment. For all of the improvements in other areas that I hear about, as a photographer who uses the 5DsR, I’m kind of stunned that when it comes to high resolution sensors, Canon has not advanced at all past the 5DsR. They have arguably gone backwards.

(Note: I understand if others prefer to stick with Canon and I understand your reasons.)

Jul 22, 2024 at 10:22 PM

melcat
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p.6 #10 · p.6 #10 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

gdanmitchell wrote:
I’m kind of stunned that when it comes to high resolution sensors, Canon has not advanced at all past the 5DsR. They have arguably gone backwards.

This excellent post in the bird photography departure thread gives the technical reason. The R5 Mk II has a 90Mpx sensor for the dual pixel autofocus, which the 5DsR didn’t have. So they’ve almost doubled the number of pixels, but only half that number is available for imaging.

Jul 23, 2024 at 02:29 AM

Scott Stoness
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p.6 #11 · p.6 #11 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

Jazzgear296 wrote:
Not in my experience as it relates to the files between the 5DsR and the R5 — the former are sharper to my eyes (at base ISO). As for the 5DIV — we are in agreement

I agree. On the tripod at iso 100, the 5dsr files unprocessed look better than the r5. When I switched the R5 required more sharpening than the 5dsr. But practically, the difference was not noticeable after sharpening and I always sharpen. And the R5 is a huge step increase for action, wildlife or video.

I would buy a r8 with r7 density sensor in it (~85mpx) and no AA, in a second though if it came out. It would be a perfect on the tripod, landscape camera (450grams, 85 mpx, no aa).

Jul 23, 2024 at 09:28 AM

moondigger
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p.6 #12 · p.6 #12 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

I voted "other."

I'm almost certainly going to get an R5 Mark II, though I'm not going to pay $4K for it. I'm willing to pay around $3K for it, and will do so when it's available for that price on the Canon Refurbished store. I also don't think it will take more than 12-18 months, as the refurbished store occasionally has sales and the Canon Loyalty program discount can often be stacked. Even if it takes 24 months, I'm fine with that. I'm patient and can continue making images that please me with my R5 until then.

Jul 23, 2024 at 11:28 AM

adamx12m
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p.6 #13 · p.6 #13 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

gdanmitchell wrote:
I don’t know if 5DsR files look better than R5. I still use the 5DsR extensively, and have not upgraded to a R5. I was hoping for the previously rumored high-MP R.

But if the files are the same — or so similar that they might as well be — that is part of the explanation for my dissatisfaction with Canon at the moment. For all of the improvements in other areas that I hear about, as a photographer who uses the 5DsR, I’m kind of stunned that when it comes to high resolution sensors, Canon has not advanced at all past...Show more →

I really like shooting my 5dsr for pretty much anything and plan to keep it even though I preordered a R5ii. Even with sports shooting the crowd or people it's still useful. The R5 vs 5dsr side by side both produce great images but shooting anything with faces you can't beat that convenience of better AF and speed. The differences in shooting both R6 to R6ii was clearly a huge upgrade which I expected with R5ii would follow a similar pattern. We all know it will be 4 years before the R5ii is replaced and really don't expect the images to look really that much better over the R5, however the AF improvements, wifi, and cfexpress all improve workflow. I think this body will work out for next 6-8 years.

I agree with the sentiment about Canon, they always seem like a step behind due to slow product cycles and lack of firmware feature updates, yet feel content they're meeting consumer needs. Sony, Nikon, even Fuji are all taking advantage I think. Hey Canon, send the FM users a survey form for some feedback!

Jul 23, 2024 at 02:27 PM

Methodical
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p.6 #14 · p.6 #14 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

WJaekel wrote:
For the most part, I agree. However, the price of the R5II is a whopping 4800 € here in Germany. If you add a grip and an additional new battery, you nearly pay 5500 €, at least, whereas people currently dump the naked R5 for around 2000 € , often for less. For the most part, the prices for photo equipment on the used market are becoming ridiculous here and the gap will even get wider once the R5II will be available. Even if you could use the BG-10 grip from the R5 for the R5II, too, and thus optionally reduce the steep difference in price just a bit, you're locked out from the new features linked to the new batteries, such as pre- shutter- release function, highest frame rate, some of the 8K video options etc.So the use of the BG-10 on the R5II - if actually possible - makes no sense

Anyway, the R5 that 4 days ago ticked almost all boxes and was considered a high-end and still competitive product is obviously old-fashioned in peoples eyes overnight and more or less worth just a bargain in comparison Of course, technology advances and the R5II may (hopefully) be better in some aspects. It remains to be seen, to which degree the differences in specs are evident in practice, though and if that's foremost also true for IQ given that the resolution is unchanged.

Three and a half years ago, I had bought the R5 for 3900 € plus 300 € for the R10-grip and 90 € for a second battery. The prices had included a little discount from my dealer, though. Nevertheless, the difference to the R5II is 1200 € in comparison..And if I could sell my R5 including the grip for € 2200 or 2300 at best, the difference is around 3200 € ! That's insane. Anyway, you may argue that's "how the market works";-) But everyone is free to follow that trend and contribute to it or not..Certainly, the optional advantages of the R5 II depend on your priorities and shooting style. But 4300 € (R5) vs 5500 € (R5II) or even 2300 € vs. 5500 € (if I sell my R5+ BG10) is beyond any proportionality and rationality for me given that the changes are not ground-braking, IMO - not to mention the present and soon to be expected new products of the competition in comparison as it's discussed in the "Canon departure...."-thread here. I've been shooting Canon for more than 40 years and my heavy investment in Canon cams and lenses prevent me from switching brands. If I would start from the scratch, I probably would go for Nikon, though, since it's pretty obvious that Canon primarily focuses just on sports shooters and journalists now, maybe to a lesser degree on Wedding /Event photogs while Nature and Wildlife photographers aren't their priority.. BTW, I have owned all 1-series cameras over the years but the R1 definetely will be the first "flagship" I'm not interested in. That said, even the new AF+ modes of the R5II are designed just for sports. From the specs, I haven't seen any advanced tracking modes for bird and wildlife shooters. So I guess, there are no changes compared to the R5 classic.

To make a long story short, I'm on a similar boat as you are. The R5II is overpriced, IMO; and I will not spend around 3200€ to upgrade from my still excellent R5. If the price comes down to close the gap considerably which is unlikely, I might think twice.
The R1 is no option for me either, the more as I own the R3, too.

Wolfgang

...Show more →

R52 at launch = 4299
R5 at launch = 3899

That's only a $400 difference. The way companies are jacking up prices for products today, I say that is not much these days. But $400 could be a lot to many. The way I see it the more people who are not interested in the RII the better my chances of getting my paws on one. I hope more people think like you do.

Jul 25, 2024 at 09:11 AM

molson
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p.6 #15 · p.6 #15 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

Jazzgear296 wrote:
Not in my experience as it relates to the files between the 5DsR and the R5 — the former are sharper to my eyes (at base ISO).

It's a moot argument for me - since the 5DsR can't use the modern RF lenses, so there's no way to make a meaningful comparison.

Jul 25, 2024 at 12:51 PM

molson
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p.6 #16 · p.6 #16 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

Flowernut wrote:
Need something like 150-600 or 200-600 for wildlife.

There's always a possibility that Tamron will release the 180-600mm zoom in a Canon mount...

Jul 25, 2024 at 01:03 PM

JWilsonphoto
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p.6 #17 · p.6 #17 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

I typically have a standing order for any top of the line release from Canon. Supposedly my R5II will be in on August 20th. Going to pass on the R1, 24 MP just doesn't fill the bill for my subject matter. I think the R5II haas enough updated features to make the addition worthwhile.

Jul 25, 2024 at 09:43 PM

CelesteForza
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p.6 #18 · p.6 #18 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

I ordered mine yesterday and hope to get it at the available date. If I was shooting primarily sports the R1 would be a no brainer for me as the AF seems out of this world. The R5 II' AF is close enough and more than good enough for what I shoot with the added megapixels.

Jul 25, 2024 at 10:47 PM

WJaekel
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p.6 #19 · p.6 #19 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

Methodical wrote:
R52 at launch = 4299
R5 at launch = 3899

That's only a $400 difference. The way companies are jacking up prices for products today, I say that is not much these days. But $400 could be a lot to many. The way I see it the more people who are not interested in the RII the better my chances of getting my paws on one. I hope more people think like you do.

If you read my post carefully, it's basically not just an increase of $ 400 which they might justify by the inflation. If you add the grip plus a second battery, you pay € 5500 here in Europe..That's 1200 € more compared to the price I had paid for the corresponding set of the R5 at my dealer here. If you take into account that people now dump the R5+Bg10 for € 2300.- at maximum, the upgrade for the R5 II plus grip would be € 3200.-. Btw, the R5 II (body only) is € 4799 not €/USD 4299 here

Anyway, I understand your reasoning and conclusion. If you look at the poll, I'm confident that your hope/wish will come true

Wolfgang

Jul 26, 2024 at 08:26 AM

JPRPhotos
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p.6 #20 · p.6 #20 · What are your plans regarding the R5 MKII?

I remember when the 5D MIII came out, it was said to have almost the same AF as the 1D series at that time. So I went with the 5DMIII and made some great sport images with it until I borrowed the current 1D camera ( don’t remember the exact model number). That 1D blew me away with its speed and responsiveness over the 5DMIII. So much so that I sold my 2 - 5DMIII and switched back to 1D series. I am mostly sports and low light photographer, so even though the R5 M2 has the same AF, I have pre-ordered the R1.

Jul 26, 2024 at 12:21 PM

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