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Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?

  
 
flash
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


Stephen G wrote:
"Part of the issue is thereís no way to look at the camera and tell if itís off or asleep. "

This seems poorly designed.

The HB 907x blinks the power light so you know that it's still on but asleep.. seems like a simple fix but pretty basic mistake.


And yet the X2D does not. Same as SL3. No indication the camera is off or asleep.

Gordon



Jul 06, 2024 at 05:50 PM
MEDISN
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


Just passed 15k images with the SL3 at events (12 separate sessions) and have not experienced any overwriting or lockups. I have swapped batteries on the longer shoots without incident. Using both UHS-II SD cards and CFe. I have not hot swapped cards or batteries with the camera on, so maybe that's the difference.


Jul 09, 2024 at 12:04 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


Who in the world is pulling out their SD card or battery while the camera is still on? I feel like these must be people that have never used removable media on a computer before or never had a power outage with a home desktop that was in use at the time, which resulted in data loss.


Jul 09, 2024 at 12:16 PM
saxguy
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


highdesertmesa wrote:
Who in the world is pulling out their SD card or battery while the camera is still on? I feel like these must be people that have never used removable media on a computer before or never had a power outage with a home desktop that was in use at the time, which resulted in data loss.


The problem is that the SL3 can go into sleep mode and it looks like it is off when it's not really completely off.



Jul 09, 2024 at 01:19 PM
freaklikeme
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


I haven't been able to replicate the problem even with a better understanding of the parameters thought to be behind the failure. So I'm starting to have more sympathy for Leica. It probably took a while before they could determine all the factors, assuming they've gotten that far.

My personal concerns were resolved with, "Hey, Rolf, try to wake up your camera to make sure it's off before you swap the battery."



Jul 09, 2024 at 03:02 PM
stgrove
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


To add a bit of heat to the fire, it turns out that a beta tester found this issue out after release. My gripe is that it took Leica 4 months from release to issue an official statement about SL3 overwriting issues.

Edited on Jul 10, 2024 at 05:28 AM · View previous versions



Jul 09, 2024 at 03:55 PM
flash
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


MEDISN wrote:
Just passed 15k images with the SL3 at events (12 separate sessions) and have not experienced any overwriting or lockups. I have swapped batteries on the longer shoots without incident. Using both UHS-II SD cards and CFe. I have not hot swapped cards or batteries with the camera on, so maybe that's the difference.


Yes. It only happens if you don't power down the camera before removing the battery. If you do pull a battery, you can also remove the cards before turning the camera back on and you'll be fine. It's overwriting file numbers on a restart. Powering the camera off properly avoids the issue.

---------------------------------------------

highdesertmesa wrote:
Who in the world is pulling out their SD card or battery while the camera is still on? I feel like these must be people that have never used removable media on a computer before or never had a power outage with a home desktop that was in use at the time, which resulted in data loss.


It's not losing data being written. It's the camera over writing files already written to the media. Sometimes several hours earlier. Most people get you don't pull a battery or card *while* being written to. This is not that. Wedding and event photographers do quick battery swaps all day. It's pretty easy to miss if a camera is off or asleep without a physical switch.

---------------------------------------------

stgrove wrote:
To add a bit of heat to the fire, it turns out that a beta testers found this issue out after release. My gripe is that it took Leica 4 months from release to issue an official statement about SL3 overwriting issues.


To the best of my knowledge, it was a paying customer who first reported the issue on LuF around a month ago. Not a tester that I've heard of. Although with the SL3 we're all beta testers currently. Mind you we still have no official word on the M11 issues some are having. Looks like Leica is learning to at least inform customers with the SL3.

Gordon

Edited on Jul 10, 2024 at 01:04 AM · View previous versions



Jul 10, 2024 at 12:56 AM
flash
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


freaklikeme wrote:
I haven't been able to replicate the problem even with a better understanding of the parameters thought to be behind the failure. So I'm starting to have more sympathy for Leica. It probably took a while before they could determine all the factors, assuming they've gotten that far.

My personal concerns were resolved with, "Hey, Rolf, try to wake up your camera to make sure it's off before you swap the battery."


It took a few goes but I was able to replicate it a few days ago. I shot over a few hours a hundred or so shots with the camera allowed to sleep now and again and then pulled the battery after letting the camera sit for a few minutes. A dozen images were overwritten. I have never had this in the field though and I'm about 8000 files in on two SL3's.

For now turning off properly is a safe workaround. Hopefully it's fixed before I do it for real.

Gordon



Jul 10, 2024 at 01:02 AM
stgrove
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


flash wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, it was a paying customer who first reported the issue on LuF around a month ago. Not a tester that I've heard of. Although with the SL3 we're all beta testers currently. Mind you we still have no official word on the M11 issues some are having. Looks like Leica is learning to at least inform customers with the SL3.

Gordon


Jono Slack mentioned a beta tester reported the issue after the SL3 had been released. Time frames were asked, but not confirmed.



Jul 10, 2024 at 05:33 AM
stgrove
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


Just read a post on LUF from nonoketchup who said he reported the issue to Leica in early April. Received his SL3 late March. As he said we are all beta testers for Leica these days. Very upsetting.

I'd now rather have a PIXII for $4k versus an M11 at $9k, but sadly already laid out the funds for M11 variants and the PIXII is not due out until end of 2024.

Wonder when we will hear about weird Q3 problems since Leica keeps obvious problems close to the vest for far too long.

No wonder the M11D has been delayed time and time again. It will be a long time before Leica gets any of my money on a new camera.



Jul 10, 2024 at 06:40 AM
 


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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


stgrove wrote:
Good point about past photographers who made the Leica brand synonymous with great images, etc, etc. How right you are that those photographers used pre-digital Leicas. Glad I own a few.

Leica always brings in their past successes when explaining how great they are. I think the term now is how great they "were" when comparing film cameras with their modern digital cameras.

My M9's worked wonderfully and I naively assumed the next variations would be just as trouble free, but as years progressed it seems Leica has not kept pace with software electronics. My first disappointment was when the
...Show more

Your M9s worked wonderfully? They even had to replace the sensor for many users, due to corrosion sensor issues. This should have been a sign of things to come





Jul 10, 2024 at 10:20 AM
flash
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


stgrove wrote:
Jono Slack mentioned a beta tester reported the issue after the SL3 had been released. Time frames were asked, but not confirmed.


I read that. He says he *believes* it was a beta tester that found it first. It was reported on the forum as early as early April. So itís pretty close to several people finding at the same time. That strikes me as, if several people had it so close to get her after release how did the beta testing program not report it before release. Unless the 1.0.1 firmware (released on release day) caused it.

Gordon



Jul 10, 2024 at 04:02 PM
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


Malabito wrote:
Your M9s worked wonderfully? They even had to replace the sensor for many users, due to corrosion sensor issues. This should have been a sign of things to come



Good point. I sold my M9M and M9 before sensor corrosion issues surfaced.



Jul 10, 2024 at 07:24 PM
flash
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


Malabito wrote:
Your M9s worked wonderfully? They even had to replace the sensor for many users, due to corrosion sensor issues. This should have been a sign of things to come



---------------------------------------------

stgrove wrote:
Good point. I sold my M9M and M9 before sensor corrosion issues surfaced.


I had two M9's I shot weddings with. In total there were 7 sensor replacements for those two cameras including the cracking sensor issue and corrosion. They have more frequent flyer miles than I do.

My most reliable Leica's have been the SL2, M (240) and M-P and my M10's.

Gordon



Jul 10, 2024 at 09:53 PM
Malabito
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


My M10 had to be sent for service twice (stuck shutter and stuck rangefinder), and my SL2S just came back from service due to malfunctioning back buttons. My M240 did work flawlessly for five years.
I've had the M11 for four months, so I can't really say much about it yet, but given the firmware issues, it doesn't look promising. Mine works almost perfectly, just a few freezes after 6k images but yes, for a camera that pricey, I wouldn't say it's acceptable.

flash wrote:
---------------------------------------------

I had two M9's I shot weddings with. In total there were 7 sensor replacements for those two cameras including the cracking sensor issue and corrosion. They have more frequent flyer miles than I do.

My most reliable Leica's have been the SL2, M (240) and M-P and my M10's.

Gordon




Jul 11, 2024 at 12:13 AM
highdesertmesa
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?



flash wrote:
Yes. It only happens if you don't power down the camera before removing the battery. If you do pull a battery, you can also remove the cards before turning the camera back on and you'll be fine. It's overwriting file numbers on a restart. Powering the camera off properly avoids the issue.

---------------------------------------------

It's not losing data being written. It's the camera over writing files already written to the media. Sometimes several hours earlier. Most people get you don't pull a battery or card *while* being written to. This is not that. Wedding and event photographers do quick battery swaps all day.
...Show more

Hot swapping is just lazy. Todayís event photographers would have crumbled back in the film days. How hard is it for them to watch their battery and card capacity and keep them fresh or have a second body at the ready? If the event is really that fast, then be ready.



Jul 11, 2024 at 07:28 AM
flash
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


highdesertmesa wrote:
Hot swapping is just lazy. Todayís event photographers would have crumbled back in the film days. How hard is it for them to watch their battery and card capacity and keep them fresh or have a second body at the ready? If the event is really that fast, then be ready.


No. Canít agree. In the *good Ďol days* we shot 500 frames in a 10-12 hour wedding. Basically modern shooters do 10x that now. Plus many modern events shooters are working in a hybrid environment and can have 5-6 camera running remotely. Customer demands have changed. Gear has changed. The images captured has changed. Itís not the same working environment at all. Different times and all that. Film shooters couldnít survive in the current environment. Lotís didnít survive the transition to digital. Lotís more didnít make it into the hybrid market.

Itís not that they donít plan. No one wants to be changing cards or batteries at a critical moment. But being not perfect like most people on the sidelines are, shit happens. I reckon I could survey 1000 event photographers and not find one that hasnít hot swapped a battery, deliberately or by accident. Cameras lock up. Clients do stuff you werenít told about. You make a simple mistake. Happened in the film era too, if you worked long enough. I know of more than one photographer who opened a film back before they rewound the film, just because of the rush. Brain farts happen to even the best.

But hey, to anyone whoís done it and never hot swapped, well done. And I donít believe you.

That still doesnít excuse a camera that overwrites files in the middle of a sequence that you shot an hour ago.

Gordon



Jul 11, 2024 at 05:35 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


flash wrote:
No. Canít agree. In the *good Ďol days* we shot 500 frames in a 10-12 hour wedding. Basically modern shooters do 10x that now. Plus many modern events shooters are working in a hybrid environment and can have 5-6 camera running remotely. Customer demands have changed. Gear has changed. The images captured has changed. Itís not the same working environment at all. Different times and all that. Film shooters couldnít survive in the current environment. Lotís didnít survive the transition to digital. Lotís more didnít make it into the hybrid market.

Itís not that they donít plan. No one wants to
...Show more

Did you say that film shooters couldnít survive todayís environment? Ok then.



Jul 11, 2024 at 08:29 PM
flash
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


highdesertmesa wrote:
Did you say that film shooters couldnít survive todayís environment? Ok then.


Yep. Well, a photographer wanting to shoot film as an event photographer. We were talking about event and volume photographers. They transitioned to digital or got out. I don't know any event shooters working exclusively with film. There's a few younger wedding photographers who do it for a while because it's the ultimate in hipster. They'll grab a Mamyia 80mm for a while because some influencer has one. Doesn't last long though. But old school gays/gals who didn't eventually transition? I'm not aware of any. I went fully digital by 2002. Even the holdouts I knew were digital by 2007 or so. I know of a few dozen who retired or moved on. Too old to learn new tricks. A bit like I was when I saw AI and hybrid shooting coming a few years ago.

For sure there are some specialists who work with movements etc. Street photographers. Some fine Art photographers. Maybe the odd landscape photographers. But general event and high volume photographers couldn't do their job as required today if they shot film.

Gordon



Jul 11, 2024 at 11:19 PM
stgrove
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Leica SL3 Very Bad Firmware bug?


flash wrote:
I read that. He says he *believes* it was a beta tester that found it first. It was reported on the forum as early as early April. So itís pretty close to several people finding at the same time. That strikes me as, if several people had it so close to get her after release how did the beta testing program not report it before release. Unless the 1.0.1 firmware (released on release day) caused it.

Gordon


IMHO, if multiple individuals reported the issue soon after release (assume April here) then why did it take Leica until July to acknowledge this problem. That is only Leica's fault irregardless of how users worked with their SL3 cameras.



Jul 12, 2024 at 06:59 AM
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