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Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options

  
 
hectorvs
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


Hey folks, it's one of those posts again.

Want to vent my thoughts and see what people think

I currently have a Nikon Z8 with the 24-70mm f2.8, the 105mm f2.8 Macro lens, and 85mm f1.8.

Love the camera and the capabilities, but I rarely take this kit out since it's so freakin huge and heavy. I'm not a pro and mostly take pics of my kid and just to document our outings.

Currently, I want to get back some funds and also downsize to a more reasonable setup.

Option 1: Fuji X-T50 or X-S20 + new 16-50mm kit lens and some f2 primes
Option 2: Fuji X-T5 + new 16-50mm kit lens with f1.4 primes

The release of the X-T50 it sparked my interest, it's super tiny and paired with the f2 Fuji primes, it should be nice and compact take anywhere kit. However, I kinda go back and forth because I might miss the larger apertures and not sure if the Fuji f1.4 primes would fit this body well (or the X-S20 for that matter)

Might just go with the bigger X-T5 to be able to more comfortably fit the f1.4 lenses but then I would be increasing the size of the kit and also I don't really need the dual card slots and I'm ok with carrying an extra battery or two.

Anyone with the smaller fuji bodies ever pair them with the f1.4 primes? what's do u think of the pairing?

Anything else I might be missing?

Thanks



Jul 03, 2024 at 01:54 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


The X system AF is nowhere close to the Z8 (and Fuji has a habit of breaking it with new firmware), so you're going to have to adjust to that.

Have you considered the ZF or Z6iii on the Nikon side? If you're finding the lenses heavy and big, then that's probably a non-starter, but you can get your camera size significantly smaller while keeping great walk around AF with those two options.

If you do go Fuji, I'd get the X-T5, it's the most capable by a margin of the 3 you listed.



Jul 03, 2024 at 01:57 PM
hectorvs
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


RoamingScott wrote:
The X system AF is nowhere close to the Z8 (and Fuji has a habit of breaking it with new firmware), so you're going to have to adjust to that.

Have you considered the ZF or Z6iii on the Nikon side? If you're finding the lenses heavy and big, then that's probably a non-starter, but you can get your camera size significantly smaller while keeping great walk around AF with those two options.

If you do go Fuji, I'd get the X-T5, it's the most capable by a margin of the 3 you listed.


Hmm, I might look into it a bit more.

From what I've seen in videos, Zf is kinda strange ergonomically. Like the manual dials don't work like they should and there's really no grip. I would definitely need to switch to the Nikon f4 zooms to reduce a bit more weight but it's still much bigger than a Fuji setup.

I own an X100VI and I do find the AF a bit lacking, but much better than before fwiw.

Maybe I'll consider a Sony A7CII or A7CR with the f2.8 primes for best AF perf.



Jul 03, 2024 at 02:24 PM
gear-nut
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


Having owned Nikon Z7ii & Z9, and virtually every piece of Z glass they made, and now a pretty extensive Fuji kit, I can share these thoughts:

The XH2 is ergonomically similar to the Nikon Z, the XT5 almost foreign by comparison. Iíve not used the XT50 so canít comment. I started with the XT5 and abandoned it the second I got the XH2.

Z8 AF is light years ahead of Fuji, seriously think first gen Z6/7 era for current Fuji XT5/XH2. You will notice this when photographing your kids running around. Youíll get plenty of usable images, but the perfect face/eye hit rate is lower than the almost never fails Nikon Z8/9 AF.

Nikon Z89 noise is a good 2 stops better than the crop-sensor 40 mp Fujiís if that matters to you. This is subjective based simply on me looking at the files, so take it for what itís worth. Noise doesnít bother me as much as others, so itís a small thing for me, but feel worth mentioning.

But the Fuji X bodies are small and quite capable. Fuji lenses are for the most part very good. Though I personally would recommend the 16-80/4 over the new kit lens. Not the sharpest in the bag, but like Nikonís 24-120, quite capable and super flexible for its size and weight. Mine is acceptably sharp wide open at all focals, and gets notably better stopped down one.

F1.4ís. I have the older 35/1.4, itís not as good optically as the newer 33/1.4, but is ⅔ the size and draws wonderfully wide open. The 56/1.2 is stellar, possibly right up there with the Z85/1.2. And of course is ⅓ the size and weight and cost.

Having travelled with the Nikon Zís and 3 lenses ó 14-30, 50/1.8 or 40/2, and the 24-120; and the XT5/XH2 with 4, 10-24, 16-55, 27 or 35 prime and 55-200, I can say the Fuji kit is far more enjoyable to schlep while covering a far larger focal range. Final files between the two systems are essentially indistinguishable for most viewers, except for the aforementioned iso noise seen mostly in night/dark interior shots. Finally the Fuji is with me more often than the Nikon was ó there were just some occasions I didnít want to bother carrying the bigger Nikon, but so far I havenít left the Fuji behind.



Jul 03, 2024 at 02:54 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


hectorvs wrote:
Hmm, I might look into it a bit more.

From what I've seen in videos, Zf is kinda strange ergonomically. Like the manual dials don't work like they should and there's really no grip. I would definitely need to switch to the Nikon f4 zooms to reduce a bit more weight but it's still much bigger than a Fuji setup.

I own an X100VI and I do find the AF a bit lacking, but much better than before fwiw.

Maybe I'll consider a Sony A7CII or A7CR with the f2.8 primes for best AF perf.


The X100VI AF is the same as the X-T5, though many lenses should focus faster on the X-T5 than the clunker on the X100VI. If the X100VI is good enough, the X-T5 will be better.



Jul 03, 2024 at 03:17 PM
hectorvs
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


gear-nut wrote:
Having owned Nikon Z7ii & Z9, and virtually every piece of Z glass they made, and now a pretty extensive Fuji kit, I can share these thoughts:

The XH2 is ergonomically similar to the Nikon Z, the XT5 almost foreign by comparison. Iíve not used the XT50 so canít comment. I started with the XT5 and abandoned it the second I got the XH2.

Z8 AF is light years ahead of Fuji, seriously think first gen Z6/7 era for current Fuji XT5/XH2. You will notice this when photographing your kids running around. Youíll get plenty of usable images, but the perfect
...Show more

thanks for the great insight!

I considered the XH2, but it's almost the same size as a full frame camera. My goal here is to reduce size of kit significantly and have it be easy to carry around.

I think I'm leaning more and more towards the Sony A7CII, it's almost the same size as the X-T50, compact lens selection is broad. There's also 'room to grow' in a sense. If I ever have a need for a larger, faster lens, I can always add a grip to make it more comfortable to hold.

https://camerasize.com/compact/#858,816,gd,f (comparison of x-t30 and a7c since the website doesn't have the latest models)

I'm not a fan of the flip out screen and the EVF is hot garbo, but it's something I can learn to live with. With sony AF being as good as it is, I'll be confident almost shooting blind from the hip, haha





Jul 03, 2024 at 03:38 PM
BeatX
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


Imho Fuji X system has three big adventages:
- color science (film sims), SOOC .jpg
- f/2 primes (Fujicrons)
- retro dials, retro styled camera body's

In every single other aspect, every single other camera brand is better or way better.

So, ask Yourself a question if those three reasons I've mentioned are important to You, or not. If they are important, then go ahead and jump into Fuji - You want be disappointed. If none of those reasons is important to You, then skip Fuji - otherwise You will be VERY frustrated

I'm fully aware of all Fuji X system downsides, and I'm still using this system for superb colors (best in industry imo). Plus I'm big fan of vintage like rendering in lenses, so I like very much images from old XF 16/1.4 and old XF 56/1.2
I just threat those lenses like old vintage lenses, but with prehistoric AF which works only in AF-S 😅

Read about poor build quality of X-S20
X-T5 also don't feel like premium camera. Feels rather cheap in a hands.
X-H2 feels solid and robust, like good quality product. Still, it's nowhere near the super solid feel of Nikon Z6II. This thing feels both premium and build like a tank.
X-T30 feels and looks like a toy



Jul 03, 2024 at 04:28 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


X-T5 also don't feel like premium camera. Feels rather cheap in a hands.

You are, of course, welcome to your opinion. But mine is diametrically opposed regarding the XT5.

I've used mine heavily for over a year now and it is a tight, solid camera that is reliable and which produces fine image quality. It may not "look" like a "premium" camera, given its relatively smaller size and positioning one step down from the most expensive x-trans cameras, but functionally it is.

Is it perfect? No. No camera is. Is it for every photographer and every kind of photography? No.

My primary use is travel and street photography, done with various prime lenses. (14mm f/2.8, 23mm f/1.4, 27mm f/2.8, 35mm f/1.4, 90mm f/2.) The lenses are great, and the setup works extremely well for this kind of photography.

Weaknesses? For my hands, there are some issues with button/control issues, and I have had to retrain myself to avoid accidentally doing things like moving the AF point/area location while carrying the camera with a wrist strap.

As to the XH2 versus XT5 question, it is more a matter of preference than quality. Since I strongly prefer the "retro" knobs and dials interface and I don't do serious video or need a deeper burst buffer, I would actually not want the XH2 or XH2s. I'm being truthful when I say that if someone wanted to trade their XH2 for my XT5 I would turn them down.

But that's a personal issue related to how I photograph, not about the quality of the two cameras. On that basis they are pretty darned comparable.

I tend to agree with an earlier poster who says that the prime lenses are the system's greatest strength. In addition to those I listed, I also have and use the excellent 80mm f/2.8 macro. All of these produce great IQ.

I also have three zooms, and here the story is, in my view, a bit more mixed ó†some really excellent and others merely good. (I'll spare the details in this thread.)

YMMV>



Jul 03, 2024 at 05:32 PM
tzhang4284
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options




hectorvs wrote:
thanks for the great insight!

I considered the XH2, but it's almost the same size as a full frame camera. My goal here is to reduce size of kit significantly and have it be easy to carry around.

I think I'm leaning more and more towards the Sony A7CII, it's almost the same size as the X-T50, compact lens selection is broad. There's also 'room to grow' in a sense. If I ever have a need for a larger, faster lens, I can always add a grip to make it more comfortable to hold.

https://camerasize.com/compact/#858,816,gd,f (comparison of x-t30 and a7c since the
...Show more

Go with the Fuji Xt-5 or xs-20 over the a7c ii or Nikon zf if youíre trying to cut size and weight.. Not a pro but I was heavy on Sony gear for a long time and the biggest issue is once you pick up a decent zoom or prime , it will be oversized for the body. The only lenses that are well optimized for the a7c body are the 24, 40, 50mm g, a few sigma primes and the 28-60 zoom. The moment you want a f2 prime the balance is off.

With Nikon Iím sure you already know, the lenses are huge and with the Nikon zf itís a minor weight savings and still massive compared to a Fuji kit. Also, the zf ergonomics were really poor for me.

I use a Leica m11 as my main stills camra but recently added a Fuji xs-20 and the new 16-50mm zoom as an affordable af photo and video camera. If I didnít have the m11 already, I would have gone with the x-t5 for the extra megapixel - I actually owned it before and regretted selling it. The Fuji f1.4 primes are a bit big for the xt5 and some are front heavy but not as bad as Sony or Nikon lenses and are all still tack sharp across the frame if thatís what youíre looking for. The new 16-50mm I find to be quite excellent at 26mp and I think it will hold up to 40mp well.

I think going from a z8 to a xt5 and a Fuji kit will be refreshing and youíre not going to give up much on image quality compare to your current kit.




Jul 03, 2024 at 06:08 PM
gear-nut
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


BeatX wrote:
Imho Fuji X system has three big adventages:
- color science (film sims), SOOC .jpg
- f/2 primes (Fujicrons)
- retro dials, retro styled camera body's

In every single other aspect, every single other camera brand is better or way better.

So, ask Yourself a question if those three reasons I've mentioned are important to You, or not. If they are important, then go ahead and jump into Fuji - You want be disappointed. If none of those reasons is important to You, then skip Fuji - otherwise You will be VERY frustrated

I'm fully aware of all Fuji X system downsides, and I'm still
...Show more
ďSuperb colorsĒ 👍👍👍

Great comment, and it is precisely why I am 100% Fuji now ó the raw files are amazing to work with on all fronts. I use the XH2 for the casual, family or travel work, the GFX when I want the best.

But then I donít do BIF or Astro or even serious wildlife or sports photography any more; and if I want to do it, I can press one of my existing systems into use even though theyíre way behind Sony/Canon/Nikon for those uses.

One more comment to the OP: The XH2 may be almost the same size as the Fx bodies you mentioned, but the glass is a lot smaller; and IMO that adds weight and bulk to bag much more than the actual body. Just sayinÖ



Jul 03, 2024 at 06:43 PM
 


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SGinNorcal
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


I rarely have issue with the XT5 AF but I shoot AFS and not BIF or sports. As pointed out, many of the best lenses in other APSC systems are large because they are designed to work on that systems APSC and FF cameras. Its great to be able to choose a large, excellent prime or small, very good F2. And in effect there are two zoom lines, the 16-55/50-140 with excellent optics or the 16-80/70-300 with great focal range and some detail lost for the compact envelope. I suggest you put your hands on all the bodies that interest you. On paper, I struggled with the decision. But in a store is a no-brainer to me.
I really don't understand the XT5 build quality comments. Its my do everything camera and it never misses a beat nor shows much wear. Still feels like a quality camera to my hands.



Jul 03, 2024 at 07:21 PM
Driften
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


The x-t5 plus a grip brings it to the weight of the X-H2s. I have both. The X-S20 can handle larger lens. I had the X-S10 with the 16-80 f/4 and it wasn't an issue and can't see the 1.4's being a problem. I also agree the size and weight of the body is less of an issue than the glass. Think of going from a full frame 24-70 f/2.8 to the Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 that is only 10oz. Yes the depth of field won't be the same as full frame on an APS-C body, but the light gathering will be. I love the Sigma and would suggest it over the new kit lens. I also enjoy the Sigma 56mm f/1.4 that is only 9.9oz. What full frame 85mm 1.4 can match that weight?

Just be careful of what lens you buy and you can have a much lighter kit.

BTW I agree I didn't go with an Z8 do to weight. The Z6III interests me but the weight of the glass holds me back. I loved the Z7II but Canon had better autofocus for birds than it so sold it. So my bird camera is a R7, but Canon doesn't have much APS-C glass so you really aren't better than Nikon.



Jul 03, 2024 at 07:38 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


Ultimately you should buy into a system for the glass, whether thatís for IQ, size, weight, etc. Every system has good enough bodies.


Jul 03, 2024 at 07:50 PM
BeatX
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


Driften wrote:
I also agree the size and weight of the body is less of an issue than the glass. Think of going from a full frame 24-70 f/2.8 to the Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 that is only 10oz.


You comparing professional line, fully weather sealed full frame f/2.8 standard zooms designed for hardest tasks, to amateur glass for hobbyists like Sigma 18-50/2.8 (which starts from 28mm rather than 24mm FOV)

Don't forget that Sigma also released it's 28-70/2.8 DG DN for full frame.
I recently have opportunity to hold in my hands A7III + Sigma 28-70/2.8 DG DN, and my lord.. this setup is tiny! it is so tiny that You would not believe it.
Here, take a look:
https://camerasize.com/compact/#883.973,891.1081,ha,t
Its also not so much heavy - and when You look at this combo from FF gear perspective is VERY light.
Ultra small and compact aps-c dedicated lens domination is long gone.
I mean, there are few exceptions here and there, but its not like that if You want small and light everyday FF camera+lens, there is no option.
There are plenty of options, especially in Sony, Panasonic and some in Canon, Nikon lineup



Jul 03, 2024 at 08:03 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


I agree that the Sony A7iii/iv/riii/riv/rv lines are the way to go instead of Fuji if size is your ultimate concern. They output WAY better RAW files than Fuji, and there are lots of small and good prime options that are just about the same size as Fuji primes. You get much better battery life and AF on top of all that.

The A7C line is full of dumb design and bad compromises.



Jul 03, 2024 at 09:17 PM
tzhang4284
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


The 67mm filter thread on the full frame lens implies itís one chunky lens compared to the aps-c version with an 55mm thread even though theyíre the same length.

I havenít used the sigma lens for Fuji but the new Fuji kit lens is internal zooming so quite compact with excellent image quality. I think itís a better option than any full frame mid range zoom lens if the goal is to keep the kit small while delivering sharp images.



Jul 03, 2024 at 09:19 PM
Joseph.
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


I have 100+ feedback in the B&S forum, which means I buy & sell a TON of gear
Of ALL the cameras I've owned throughout the years, nothing made me happier than the X-T5. It's just a complete camera and I love everything about it.

My 2 happiest moments with the Nikon Z was when I first bought it and when I got rid of it. Fuji is just so much more portable and a joy to use. If portability is your goal, I'd go X-T5 + Fujicrons. 16 2.8, 23 f2, 30 2.8, 35 1.4 and 50 f2. I wouldn't even recommend Fuji 1.4's (other than the tiny 35 1.4). Those 1.4's are a little bit on the heavier side.

What I love about Fuji X:
-Smaller, lighter than FF
-All of their lenses are pretty good
-JPEG Colors &-Film simulations
-Retro dials and there's silver options
-Frequent firmware updates and new sims
-Aperture rings!
-Stupid nitpick, but the lenses and lens caps turn the right way (lefty loosey, righty tighty) It's just intuitive IMO
-Voigtlander offers some nice MF glass for Fuji X that are also tiny and come in silver

Also have you considered the X-Pro3?? It's also a good option.




Jul 03, 2024 at 09:29 PM
Driften
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


BeatX wrote:
You comparing professional line, fully weather sealed full frame f/2.8 standard zooms designed for hardest tasks, to amateur glass for hobbyists like Sigma 18-50/2.8 (which starts from 28mm rather than 24mm FOV)



The OP said he's not a Pro and wants to take pictures of his kid and document their life. Why should he have to carry the weight of gear built for professional work? He has great gear now, but is leaving it at home due to weight.

There is heavy glass for m4/3, APS-C, and FF so one has to shop wisely and consider total system weight. When I had a Leica SL2s with a Sigma 28-70mm f/2.8 the total weight was 46.6oz and that Sigma was touted as being the lightest of its class. My X-T5 with Sigma 18-50mm is 29.6oz. I would much rather carry around the Fuji than the Leica. Especially since I would be normally carrying around more than one lens. His Z8 is 2oz heavier than the Leica, which is what took it off the table for me when it came out. I was fine with a Nikon Z7II which is only 21.7oz. It was a well balanced camera. Not to say I still wouldn't rather carry 29.6oz than the 44.1oz Z7II+24-120 f/4 combo.



Jul 04, 2024 at 12:02 AM
hectorvs
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


Joseph. wrote:
...
My 2 happiest moments with the Nikon Z was when I first bought it and when I got rid of it.
...


lol, I'm starting to feel that way too

Thanks everyone for the great comments. Fred Miranda community coming in clutch as always!

Narrowed it down to these two options:

---------------------

Sony Kit

Body: A7CII (maaaaybe A7CR if I can get a good deal used)

Lenses:
- 24mm f2.8 (~equiv to 16mm f2 APSC)
- 50mm f2.5 ( ~equiv to 33mm f1.4 APSC)
- 85mm f1.8 ( ~equiv to 56mm f1.2 APSC)

All these cover most of what I shoot. If I'm honest, the 24mm will be on most of the time. There's always the option to punch in to super35 mode and get a bit of extra reach.

24mm and 50mm are tiny, almost pancake like and match great with the compact body. 85mm is also super small and gives me more of that bokeh for that odd portrait session.

Don't want to deal with the extra bulk of zoom lenses even if there are some good options from Sony (24-50mm f2.8) and tamron (20-40mm f2.8)

---------------

Fuji Kit

Body: X-T50 (only thing I would really miss of X-T5 is the more versatile tilting screen for portrait orientation, still an option)

Lenses:
- 35mm f2 (~50mm f2.8 FF)
- 50mm f2 (~75mm f2.8 FF)

Not sure if there's a good wider fujicron. the 18mm f2 is ancient, there's a 16mm f2.8 but not sure how good that one is. the pancake 27mm f2.8 would be awesome, but I don't think it's wide enough and it's too close to the 35mm f2

FWIW, I already own an X100VI, which covers 23mm and 18mm APSC (I have the Wide angle converter lens). If I end up loving the X-T50 setup, I might sell the X100VI, get the corresponding lenses and pocket the difference.

The reason why I'm still considering Fuji is because the cameras are a joy to use, even if they're less capable. It would also be nice to be all in one family of camera systems. Same menus, same app (which is better than the Sony app, if you can believe that) . Fuji is also cheaper, so I can pocket more of the money in the end.






Jul 04, 2024 at 01:19 AM
kenbennett
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Downsizing my kit, debating Fuji options


hectorvs wrote:
Not sure if there's a good wider fujicron. the 18mm f2 is ancient, there's a 16mm f2.8 but not sure how good that one is. the pancake 27mm f2.8 would be awesome, but I don't think it's wide enough and it's too close to the 35mm f2



The 14/2.8 is really old, circa 2013, but it's an outstanding lens and also quite small. Extremely well-corrected optically. Odd focus clutch. I regret selling mine. The 16/2.8 is tiny but still gives good image quality.



Jul 04, 2024 at 07:00 AM
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