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LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)

  
 
Zenon Char
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)




LBJ2 wrote:
I'm not yet noticing any significant "faster" or more efficient LRC DeNoise processing on my Apple M1 Studio Ultra Computer w/ 64GB RAM. But I didn't time before and after the update, so I can't be more specific.

OTOH, I do see a significant improvement in the new non-destructive Generative AI technology/ Generative Remove feature. WOW! I'm using the Early Access features and again WOW removing objects on some really busy backgrounds. This to me is exciting. Not perfect, but very impressive. This is going to keep me as a LRC subscriber...for now 😎

Important note from my personal unscientific experience, apply
...Show more

One of the gurus at the Lightroom Queenís site said he was getting 8 seconds before this update. He has a studio with 64GB ram. Processing sped and cores make a big difference. I donít have that level on my MacBook Air so I guess the update was more significant for me.



May 21, 2024 at 05:54 PM
eyal
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


mcbroomf wrote:
Thanks.

With the M3 Max/48GB combo the only option is a 16 core CPU, 40 core GPU and 16 core Neural Engine
https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/14-inch-space-black-apple-m3-max-with-14-core-cpu-and-30-core-gpu-36gb-memory-1tb


30 sec before
26 sec after

I noticed a lot of drive activity after the update so I let LRc do its thing for an hour or so before running the test. Activity monitor showed CPU stayed under 150% and RAM didn't bump.



May 21, 2024 at 06:29 PM
jhapeman
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


Fboss wrote:
Can you add a link to this thread ?

And when do you stop counting, when the progress bar is gone or when you see the new image ?
And what setting for the denoise (not sure it makes a difference )


I've personally always timed it starting when I hit the "Enhance" button, and then ending when the image appears in the screen.



May 21, 2024 at 06:40 PM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)




jhapeman wrote:
I've personally always timed it starting when I hit the "Enhance" button, and then ending when the image appears in the screen.


Thatís how I time it.



May 21, 2024 at 06:43 PM
Fboss
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


with the test image, ~32 sec on a MacBook Pro M1 Pro .
I have never tested this exact image with the previous LR versions



May 21, 2024 at 06:57 PM
eyal
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


jhapeman wrote:
I've personally always timed it starting when I hit the "Enhance" button, and then ending when the image appears in the screen.


My numbers are wrong then - I timed it til the progress bar was gone. Image appears 4 seconds before that I think



May 21, 2024 at 07:05 PM
jhapeman
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


A few test points:

1) M1 Studio Ultra with 128GB of RAM and the 64-core GPU; 21s before the update, 18s after. Minor gain.
2) M3 Max 16" MBP with 128GB of RAM and 40-core GPU; 25s before the update, 21s after. Another minor gain.

Based on what others have posted, it would appear that if you have a machine with lower-grade GPU you see a bigger boost. This makes sense since the number of ANE cores is pretty constant across all of the models, with only the Ultra having a jump in core counts on the ANE. For the lower-end models with lower GPU core counts, the added processing power of the ANE cores can be significant but for something like an Ultra with 64 GPU cores, the addition is like what I've seen, roughly 15%. To be fair, a 15% gain isn't really that minor in terms of what we often see in computing.



May 21, 2024 at 07:17 PM
Fboss
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


jhapeman wrote:
A few test points:

1) M1 Studio Ultra with 128GB of RAM and the 64-core GPU; 21s before the update, 18s after. Minor gain.
2) M3 Max 16" MBP with 128GB of RAM and 40-core GPU; 25s before the update, 21s after. Another minor gain.

Based on what others have posted, it would appear that if you have a machine with lower-grade GPU you see a bigger boost. This makes sense since the number of ANE cores is pretty constant across all of the models, with only the Ultra having a jump in core counts on the ANE. For the lower-end models with
...Show more

is it with the test image posted in this thread ?

I'm surprised by the 21s on the M3 Max, that shares the same neural engines as the M3 Pro (> 30 sec like on the M1 Pro)



May 21, 2024 at 08:05 PM
jhapeman
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


Fboss wrote:
is it with the test image posted in this thread ?

I'm surprised by the 21s on the M3 Max, that shares the same neural engines as the M3 Pro (> 30 sec like on the M1 Pro)


Yes. You're missing the point I was making: The GPU does most of the heavy lifting. The ANE just helps it along. The M3 Pro comes with either 14 or 18 GPU cores; the Max comes with 30 or 40--mine has the 40-core GPU. Adobe's DeNoise scales almost linearly with the GPU core count on Apple Silicon (and with tensor cores on the Nvidia cards).



May 21, 2024 at 08:39 PM
Fboss
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


Indeed, I just checked the GPU and ANE usage while running denoise on the test image.
GPU is 100%, ANE just 40%

Screenshot 2024-05-21 at 7.18.27 PM by Fred, sur Flickr



May 21, 2024 at 09:21 PM
 


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mcbroomf
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


Fboss wrote:
Can you add a link to this thread ?

And when do you stop counting, when the progress bar is gone or when you see the new image ?
And what setting for the denoise (not sure it makes a difference )


I'll add the updated table in another day or 2 when I get a few more results.

I stop counting when I see the updated file. I have stacked turned off so LRC switches to the dng once it's done.



May 22, 2024 at 04:20 AM
jhapeman
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


hoodlum90 wrote:
Initial results suggest there is little difference now between various device and that would make sense since deNoise is no longer dependent on the GPU and the Neural Engine didn't change much between M1 and M3. The only possible exception could be the Ultra with 2x 16 core Neural Engine and of course future M4 devices that have a much improved Neural Engine.

This is great news as I will likely wait for the M4 Macbook Pro as that will provide me with the best bang for the buck with deNoise performance. The additional GPU cores is less critical now.


Actually this isn't quite correct. If you are running a lower-end model of any of the M-series--the base models and even the Pro models, with limited GPU cores, this can be a HUGE boost in performance. Once you hit the Max models and Ultra models with a large number of GPU cores there is an increasingly diminished gain in performance, since the relative added processing power is quite small.

That's actually really good news--it's not often a software update will have the biggest advantage to those with the lowest-end hardware, but that's absolutely the case here.



May 22, 2024 at 10:11 AM
mcbroomf
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


Do we know if the Neural Cores are now activated for anything else in PS/LRC on a Mac? Has anyone seen other AI tasks take a big step down (in time to complete).

I could be off here but one problem I see is that Adobe seem to be pushing complex AI tasks onto their servers, so time may be very dependent on your internet speed.



May 22, 2024 at 10:20 AM
hoodlum90
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


mcbroomf wrote:
Do we know if the Neural Cores are now activated for anything else in PS/LRC on a Mac? Has anyone seen other AI tasks take a big step down (in time to complete).

I could be off here but one problem I see is that Adobe seem to be pushing complex AI tasks onto their servers, so time may be very dependent on your internet speed.


According to the release notes this only applies to deNoise.

Enabled Apple Neural Engine for AI Denoise on Mac, with Apple Silicon having macOS 14.0 or later.



May 22, 2024 at 12:27 PM
hoodlum90
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


jhapeman wrote:
Actually this isn't quite correct. If you are running a lower-end model of any of the M-series--the base models and even the Pro models, with limited GPU cores, this can be a HUGE boost in performance. Once you hit the Max models and Ultra models with a large number of GPU cores there is an increasingly diminished gain in performance, since the relative added processing power is quite small.

That's actually really good news--it's not often a software update will have the biggest advantage to those with the lowest-end hardware, but that's absolutely the case here.


Yes, this is very good news. I was looking at getting a Macbook Max at some point but now that the Neural engine is being used for deNoise, I will likely get the PRO instead as the GPU cores are not longer critical for this. Even the Air could suffice but I like some of the features of the PRO such as built-in SD card, higher base memory and no throttling. I will wait for the M4 to be released due to the Neural Engine upgrade.

I believe someone else mentioned that memory usage is much lower now as well. It will be interesting to see if this is consistent for Lightroom as that could impact the amount of memory I need. I was thinking of going to 32GB for Lightroom but if 16gb works well then that also provides savings.



May 22, 2024 at 12:34 PM
jhapeman
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


hoodlum90 wrote:
Yes, this is very good news. I was looking at getting a Macbook Max at some point but now that the Neural engine is being used for deNoise, I will likely get the PRO instead as the GPU cores are not longer critical for this. Even the Air could suffice but I like some of the features of the PRO such as built-in SD card, higher base memory and no throttling. I will wait for the M4 to be released due to the Neural Engine upgrade.

I believe someone else mentioned that memory usage is much lower now as well. It
...Show more

I'd honestly not recommend anything less than 32GB as you have to remember its shared memory. If you are running a large high-resolution external display or two displays that alone will chew up some RAM. Then things like the AI will use even more. Art is Right has some great comparison tests on his YouTube channel that demonstrate that 32GB is the sweet spot for photographic uses like Lightroom, etc.



May 22, 2024 at 01:28 PM
jhapeman
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


hoodlum90 wrote:
According to the release notes this only applies to deNoise.

Enabled Apple Neural Engine for AI Denoise on Mac, with Apple Silicon having macOS 14.0 or later.


We don't know what else they are used for, but I'll do some testing here where I will monitor the activity on the Neural Engine cores. They mention this explicitly for this release because it was *supposed* to be working at the release of DeNoise but there was a MacOS bug Apple had to fix. That was apparently fixed with MacOS 14.x as that's the base requirement. I wouldn't read anything into that about how the ANE cores might be used for other tasks.

For generative AI Adobe is using their cloud computing, but that's not an uncommon approach as the processing power and models used for that can be huge, beyond the capabilities of most PCs/Macs.



May 22, 2024 at 01:43 PM
Fboss
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


mcbroomf wrote:
I'll add the updated table in another day or 2 when I get a few more results.

I stop counting when I see the updated file. I have stacked turned off so LRC switches to the dng once it's done.


@mcbroomf, please can you send a link to the updated table ? Thanks




Jun 10, 2024 at 06:05 PM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)



LBJ2 wrote:
I'm not yet noticing any significant "faster" or more efficient LRC DeNoise processing on my Apple M1 Studio Ultra Computer w/ 64GB RAM. But I didn't time before and after the update, so I can't be more specific.

OTOH, I do see a significant improvement in the new non-destructive Generative AI technology/ Generative Remove feature. WOW! I'm using the Early Access features and again WOW removing objects on some really busy backgrounds. This to me is exciting. Not perfect, but very impressive. This is going to keep me as a LRC subscriber...for now 😎

Important note from my personal unscientific experience, apply
...Show more

A fellow at the Lightroom Queens site has a Studio with 64GB RAM. Not sure which M chip but he was getting 8 seconds with Denoise before the bug fix. I doubt he seen very much gain.



Jun 10, 2024 at 08:44 PM
mcbroomf
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · LRC 13.3 Adds Apple Neural Engine Support (Finally)


Fboss wrote:
@mcbroomf@, please can you send a link to the updated table ? Thanks



Sorry, been lazy and never updated it. Will do shortly and post ...



Jun 11, 2024 at 02:17 AM
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