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Canon r1 official announcement.

  
 
arbitrage
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p.9 #1 · p.9 #1 · Canon r1 official announcement.


AmbientMike wrote:
I haven't missed your point at all. You really like arbitrage, but haven't much use for me. To the point you are attacking me very strongly, on his behalf, even though I've been on the forum longer than he has

Theres people on here that have taken photos a lot longer than I have, but I probably got into digital before either if you got into photography

Arbitrage is a Sony fanboy, called the R1 announcement a joke the other day on the Canon board, for one thing, so I countered the A9 III DR no good (for that matter, he
...Show more

You seem to be confusing me calling the announcement a joke with me calling the camera a joke. I can't make any judgement on the camera because we know almost nothing about it. Once we know the full specs then I'll make a comment specific to the specifications. Once I get to borrow one from CPS, then, and only then, I will comment on the camera. I don't form detailed opinions to compare with other cameras until I actually use the thing. I keep my CPS membership up to date these days specifically to borrow new cameras and all my non-telephoto lenses are still my EF lenses (5 in total).



May 19, 2024 at 07:36 AM
Imagemaster
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p.9 #2 · p.9 #2 · Canon r1 official announcement.


As Judge Judy would say: This is all hearsay.


May 19, 2024 at 10:30 AM
Alan Kefauver
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p.9 #3 · p.9 #3 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Jeff Nolten wrote:
So Canon is going to make an R1?


Wah...I want a R2 (Like a R1 but with an APS-C Sensor.)



May 19, 2024 at 11:44 AM
alundeb
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p.9 #4 · p.9 #4 · Canon r1 official announcement.



Alan Kefauver wrote:
Wah...I want a R2 (Like a R1 but with an APS-C Sensor.)


I heard Canon and Nikon are going to join forces and create the R2-D2 robot camera.



May 19, 2024 at 12:35 PM
garyvot
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p.9 #5 · p.9 #5 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Choderboy wrote:
Here's one of yours:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1856897/0#16539735

Sony has basically no supertele lenses.

Are you going for most ridiculous statement on FM of 2024? Or maybe of all time?

Your point about Canon releasing 400 2.8 in the 80's is a likely runner up.

Innovation offering EF lens with a permanently attached adapter?
Sigma has been doing that a lot longer than Canon.


I don't want to wade into an ultimately pointless debate, since it is apparent that no amount of rational argument will help some parties gain a little self-awareness... but Canon did indeed release a 400mmm f/2.8L lens in 1981.

https://global.canon/en/c-museum/product/nfd230.html

Of course, using that as an argument against Sony's ability to innovate is silly, as Sony did not become a camera/lens maker until decades later.




May 19, 2024 at 02:19 PM
Maxxus46
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p.9 #6 · p.9 #6 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Hmnn... Based on Sony full frame lense performance alone, I'd say they have zero regrets. Sony lenses have long been top performers in their respective categories.


molson wrote:
I wonder how much Sony regrets keeping that APS-C sized lens mount and its inherent limitations for their full frame cameras?




May 19, 2024 at 04:56 PM
Choderboy
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p.9 #7 · p.9 #7 · Canon r1 official announcement.


garyvot wrote:
I don't want to wade into an ultimately pointless debate, since it is apparent that no amount of rational argument will help some parties gain a little self-awareness... but Canon did indeed release a 400mmm f/2.8L lens in 1981.

https://global.canon/en/c-museum/product/nfd230.html

Of course, using that as an argument against Sony's ability to innovate is silly, as Sony did not become a camera/lens maker until decades later.



I get it (that FD 400 was released over 40 years ago).
Sony joining the game decades later, as you say, was what seemed ridiculous to me about mention of the 1981 Canon release.
In the 80s when the 400 FD was released, I had Pentax gear. I have had Canon since 2006 and still have 1DXII.
I added a Sony A9 in 2019 and am now mostly Sony.
I see pros and cons of both Sony and Canon.
Lately, I am seeing lot's of pros with Nikon: their 'middle ground' teles, 800 PF, 600 PF, 400 4.5.
I'll criticize any brand and praise any brand too.

The concept of having an attachment to a brand and feeling the need to defend them, let alone defend them with ridiculous arguments is very, very strange IMHO.






May 20, 2024 at 04:50 AM
garyvot
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p.9 #8 · p.9 #8 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Choderboy wrote:
The concept of having an attachment to a brand and feeling the need to defend them, let alone defend them with ridiculous arguments is very, very strange IMHO.


Perhaps. But human beings are tribal. Identifying with a group and defending it from outsiders is a rather common human trait.

Intense brand loyalty is a manifestation of this, I think. Ford versus Chevy, Mac versus PC, Coke versus Pepsi... our culture is rich with this stuff.

(Re. camera brand wars: things were simpler when it was Canon versus Nikon, haha. Having three major players in a given market category is actually rather unusual.)

I suppose it's no different from people being extremely passionate about their football clubs, or whatever. It will look weird to people who are not similarly engaged.



May 20, 2024 at 06:16 AM
ilkka_nissila
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p.9 #9 · p.9 #9 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Choderboy wrote:
I get it (that FD 400 was released over 40 years ago).
Sony joining the game decades later, as you say, was what seemed ridiculous to me about mention of the 1981 Canon release.


Sony bought Konica-Minolta's camera division which at the time had, e.g., 300/2.8, 400/4.5, 500 mm reflex, and 600/4. Among other things Sony acquired expertise to make such lenses. However, Minolta didn't have as extensive range of long lenses as Canon and Nikon did. I am not sure what AnotherMike had in mind, but Sony/Konica-Minolta/Minolta didn't and don't have as extensive experience on this segment of lenses as Canon does, and the availability of second hand lenses makes it easier to get started on long lenses with the Canon (or Nikon) long lens ecosystems. Yes, the newest lenses are the best, but often at very high cost for the higher-end lens types. Often it is the most practical to choose a brand which has at the time the products you need and then use it for a long time rather than dump systems and buy new ones frequently, losing a lot of money at each swap, and only gaining a temporary advantage in one area (and probably some disadvantages in other areas).


The concept of having an attachment to a brand and feeling the need to defend them, let alone defend them with ridiculous arguments is very, very strange IMHO.


It is also very strange to buy and sell gear and entire systems just because one brand has an advantage in one area for the moment, only to realize that another brand has an even better solution for that a couple of years later, and then a third repeats the advantage, each time wasting potentially tens of thousands of dollars just to get a temporary advantage in one area, and to sniff new gear. This forum seems to have a lot of such people and it's the most ridiculous thing ever.

What is gained by sticking to one brand for a long time? You learn the user interface deeply and instinctively always know what to do, how to get the result because of intimate familiarity with the way things are done in a particular brand's equipment. There is a continuity in performance and optical rendering across models within the brand's lineup of products, so one can maintain a consistent style and knows what to expect in a new product. You don't waste money brand-hopping and so you can actually a broader set of lenses since 30%+ of the money is not flushed down the toilet in brand and product swaps. This way, over a longer time span, one can acquire a set of specialist tools for various photographic applications. If one feels the need to swap 600/4's for a new one every year or so, along with camera body (bodies) then all the money goes into that and other subjects that aren't covered by a 600 mm lens don't get appropriate gear. This may be fine if one is happy to just photograph one subject over and over again, but photography of varied subject matter and using different approaches, optical and other, can be interesting and enjoyable. The great paradox with brand-hopping is that by gaining in one area one typically loses in other areas of system performance or features (if not immediately, a few years down the road), and the only thing that is guaranteed is the loss of money. Not appreciating the significance of these financial losses may be fine for the 1% or 0.1% but for the rest they do matter. And so because there are people who stick to a brand, to save money over the long term and gain from the familiarity and trust advantages, they do tend to defend the brand online, when those who are willing to spend a lot for temporary gains think everyone should follow their spendy ways and are very vocal about it.



May 20, 2024 at 06:20 AM
Choderboy
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p.9 #10 · p.9 #10 · Canon r1 official announcement.


ilkka_nissila wrote:
Sony bought Konica-Minolta's camera division which at the time had, e.g., 300/2.8, 400/4.5, 500 mm reflex, and 600/4. Among other things Sony acquired expertise to make such lenses. However, Minolta didn't have as extensive range of long lenses as Canon and Nikon did. I am not sure what AnotherMike had in mind, but Sony/Konica-Minolta/Minolta didn't and don't have as extensive experience on this segment of lenses as Canon does, and the availability of second hand lenses makes it easier to get started on long lenses with the Canon (or Nikon) long lens ecosystems. Yes, the newest lenses are the best,
...Show more

I assume you are not referring to me with "buy and sell gear and entire systems" ?




May 20, 2024 at 06:56 AM
 


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Sy Sez
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p.9 #11 · p.9 #11 · Canon r1 official announcement.




They seem to have done Ok. The lens mount size is less important than either Canon or Nikon would have you believe, though there are some small advantages. The short flange distance can negate most of the problems that the smaller mount can do. With that said, it does give Canon and Nikon a little more flexibility in their lens designs.


I'd rather they had kept the smaller mount, whatever the minor disadvantages, and that my RF 100-500 could zoom fully back with a TC attached.



May 20, 2024 at 08:52 AM
robert_in_ca
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p.9 #12 · p.9 #12 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Granted some people do jump to different systems, thinking it will make them a better photographer. However, contrary to your ridiculous statement some people, including myself, like to try out different gear because itís apart of the hobby. I never understood why people like you care to make a point to ridicule what other people choose to do with their money.

ilkka_nissila wrote:
Sony bought Konica-Minolta's camera division which at the time had, e.g., 300/2.8, 400/4.5, 500 mm reflex, and 600/4. Among other things Sony acquired expertise to make such lenses. However, Minolta didn't have as extensive range of long lenses as Canon and Nikon did. I am not sure what AnotherMike had in mind, but Sony/Konica-Minolta/Minolta didn't and don't have as extensive experience on this segment of lenses as Canon does, and the availability of second hand lenses makes it easier to get started on long lenses with the Canon (or Nikon) long lens ecosystems. Yes, the newest lenses are the best,
...Show more


Edited on May 22, 2024 at 10:08 AM · View previous versions



May 20, 2024 at 08:54 AM
Jman13
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p.9 #13 · p.9 #13 · Canon r1 official announcement.




I'd rather they had kept the smaller mount, whatever the minor disadvantages, and that my RF 100-500 could zoom fully back with a TC attached.


I mean, the 100-500 TC design isn't a mount design issue, but just the way Canon designed that lens. The Nikon Z mount is similar in diameter, with an even shorter flange distance, and yet the 180-600mm can take a TC with no impact on the zoom range (as can the 100-400).



May 20, 2024 at 09:20 AM
garyvot
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p.9 #14 · p.9 #14 · Canon r1 official announcement.




I mean, the 100-500 TC design isn't a mount design issue, but just the way Canon designed that lens. The Nikon Z mount is similar in diameter, with an even shorter flange distance, and yet the 180-600mm can take a TC with no impact on the zoom range (as can the 100-400).


Yes.

I am actually a fan of the RF 70-200 2.8L redesign. It's way more compact and much lighter than my EF 70-200 f/2.8L II. I even will carry it for travel, something I would be hard pressed doing with the older lens. For me, that's a decent tradeoff.

For the 100-500 though, I think the odd limitation with TCs is harder to justify.



May 20, 2024 at 10:00 AM
molson
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p.9 #15 · p.9 #15 · Canon r1 official announcement.


garyvot wrote:
For the 100-500 though, I think the odd limitation with TCs is harder to justify.



The RF 100-500 is much smaller than the Nikon 180-600 zoom, and optically a lot better than the Nikon 100-400 with a TC, so for me it's a worthwhile tradeoff for the rare times I use it with a TC.



May 20, 2024 at 05:14 PM
arbitrage
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p.9 #16 · p.9 #16 · Canon r1 official announcement.


ilkka_nissila wrote:
This forum seems to have a lot of such people and it's the most ridiculous thing ever.


Some of us just like to try the latest and greatest. It is not all about chasing that last 1% advantage. I can get the shots I want with all the latest gear. But I still like to try out the new stuff. Although over the past 6 years I'm not doing major complete system switches anymore...I mainly buy or borrow the new stuff, test it, and if it really blows me a way I might keep it. So far nothing I've tried has blown me away in comparison to my A1 so that has been saving me a lot of $$ over the past 3 years....money saved to buy the A1II I guess



May 20, 2024 at 06:28 PM
TakesRandomPics
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p.9 #17 · p.9 #17 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Funnily enough I would have ended up in the Sony camp if could actually buy an A1 when I was looking. I ended up with the R5 and now have too much in glass to consider moving. Now I've actually shot Canon since the AE-1 so there's some familiarity bias for sure. But I remember shooting my dad's friend's Nikon (no idea what body) with the aperture display a moving needle on the right side of the viewfinder. What schoolboy me lusted over was the Olympus ad on the back cover of National Geographic. I still remember the gorgeous lineup of lenses. My first mirrorless was an Olympus in fact. Oh and I still have a Coolpix 950 somewhere with a ONE MEGAPIXEL sensor, all metal body and AA battery requirement.

What does all of this have to do with an R1? If it's a good camera I'll buy it. But the Sony A1 is a fine camera and the Nikon lens lineup is tempting to say the least. If you want a brand war there's always iOS vs Android these days.



May 20, 2024 at 09:53 PM
Gochugogi
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p.9 #18 · p.9 #18 · Canon r1 official announcement.


ilkka_nissila wrote:
It is also very strange to buy and sell gear and entire systems just because one brand has an advantage in one area for the moment, only to realize that another brand has an even better solution for that a couple of years later, and then a third repeats the advantage, each time wasting potentially tens of thousands of dollars just to get a temporary advantage in one area, and to sniff new gear. This forum seems to have a lot of such people and it's the most ridiculous thing ever.



No need to sell your system or play leapfrog. Many hereóat least the well heeled or those with abundant creditórun multiple systems. It doesn't have to make sense as a business investment since the majority here are hobbyists and collect gear and shoot as a passion. Not that different from motorcycle crazies, vintage guitar buffs, audiophiles and gun collectors. I used to shoot 3 systems, each with a full complement of lenses and accessories. I enjoyed the variety and differing feel but am back to just shooting Canon. Heck, as a hobby, photography is much less expensive and dangerous than gambling, keeping mistresses or racing vintage prop planes!

If you're a professional you have to worry about the bottomline and be fast and efficient when you work, so none of that "most ridiculous thing ever" shit. You're stuck with your system for a long time and probably use multiple copies of the same camera so you can play them like a piano when out on a job.



May 20, 2024 at 09:59 PM
goalerjones
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p.9 #19 · p.9 #19 · Canon r1 official announcement.


I definitely fall into the "advanced hobbyist" category. My wife however made it clear we were sticking with Canon, so that keeps me from brand-hopping.

As for the new camera circus, I love to see advances in tech, and new ways to solve problems, but my main income does not come from my cameras, so I can sit back and let everyone else beta-test the latest and greatest, e.g. by the time I got my R5, the overheating issue was mostly solved, so it never inconvenienced me.



May 20, 2024 at 10:28 PM
Tony Ross
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p.9 #20 · p.9 #20 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Jman13 wrote:
The first real MILC was Panasonicís G1 for Micro 4/3 in 2008. Panasonic and Olympus had the initial head start, and the the NEX joined the party with a larger sensor. Samsungís NX line joined around the same time, but died shortly after they released the NX1, which is a shame because that camera was fricking awesome for the time.


I made no claim that Sony was first. I said the Sony did not follow Canon or Nikon, but rather preceded them. Can you argue with that?



May 21, 2024 at 06:01 AM
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