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First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)

  
 
retrofocus
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


Fred Miranda wrote:
Update: Leica is considering different options for the next M:

https://leicarumors.com/2024/05/14/here-are-the-different-viewfinder-options-leica-is-considering-of-the-next-generation-of-m-cameras-leica-m12.aspx/

Peter is still uncertain whether this is a M-EVF or the M12, but there is an announcement coming on May 16th.


Interesting - too early to draw a conclusion, but the photos might indicate a combination between EVF and OVF-based rangefinder. Maybe it is an user option to select from in the camera if with traditional rangefinder, purely EVF, or combination of both.

One thing gets more clear at least - Leica has heard the request for an EVF-M in whatever form it will see the light of the day.



May 14, 2024 at 12:10 PM
foto16
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


If they are open to different VF designs, wouldn't it be useful if they also throw in an official autofocus adapter that pushes the lens forward and backward to focus, similar to those made by TECHART? It may help to achieve focus precision on today's high MP sensors. Not sure MF through the rangefinder is accurate enough to fully utilize 60MP of sensor resolution.

Maybe they can also include eye detection and focus confirmation for MF, like in the Nikon ZF.



May 14, 2024 at 12:29 PM
retrofocus
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


foto16 wrote:
If they are open to different VF designs, wouldn't it be useful if they also throw in an official autofocus adapter that pushes the lens forward and backward to focus, similar to those made by TECHART? It may help to achieve focus precision on today's high MP sensors. Not sure MF through the rangefinder is accurate enough to fully utilize 60MP of sensor resolution.

Maybe they can also include eye detection and focus confirmation for MF, like in the Nikon ZF.


Yes - but potential in-house competition with their current Q- and SL-series might push such option back. More likely that such adapter will be sold separately by another manufacturer to accommodate exactly what you mentioned.

Focus confirmation might be part of the new camera if we believe the photos Fred posted earlier here with the red marked focus areas.



May 14, 2024 at 12:43 PM
rscheffler
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


rscheffler wrote:
If they could somehow integrate phase detect-based focus confirmation within the rangefinder patch overlay, I think it would be manual focus nirvana.

I guess in theory an EVF-based system capable of knowing in which direction the point of intended focus is mis-focused, through use of phase detection pixels on the sensor, could implement a virtual RF patch showing the degree of focus misalignment. And given the RF patch would be virtual, it could be repositioned anywhere in the frame. This would just be a different visual implementation of the 'match needle' system Canon uses.

Whether the M community would accept a
...Show more
gordec wrote:
I think they implement a classical mechanical RF and a virtual RF based on sensor readout for focus confirmation. They probably shouldn't overlay the 2 mechanisms. If RF and virtual EVF are overlayed, this would drive people crazy. Sensor readout is likely going to be more accurate than the RF. If you get lens calibration variations, the RF may always seems a little off from the sensor readout.


Yes, I think the sensor would be more accurate but the value of integrating it with the mechanical RF mechanism IMO is two-fold - the RF patch quickly and visually tells you which direct to focus and in situations where the sensor might be unable to reliably generate focus information, the RF patch can usually display enough contrast information to visually focus quickly in low light.

With my M the RF patch has been out of calibration for a long time. Depending on the lens I'm using, I know how much to intentionally mis-align the RF patch for correct focus. So I'm already dealing with this kind of problem, but having off-the-sensor focus confirmation would be welcome. I'm uncertain how well such a hybrid system would account for parallax correction.

Taking a page out of the conventional mirrorless playbook, elimination of the mechanical RF, substituted by a virtual RF patch overlay generated by phase detect focus information off the sensor, would vastly simplify the M's mechanics and potentially increase focus reliability in most situations. But for this to happen I think it would need to be slowly integrated in the M system over the span of several models to allow time for the new 'RF' to be accepted by the broader user base.

Edited on May 14, 2024 at 01:46 PM · View previous versions



May 14, 2024 at 01:38 PM
gordec
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


I think the M12 will also have an antifreeze chamber where you can pour antifreeze in it. Then you can use whatever SD card you want.


May 14, 2024 at 01:44 PM
ksrhee2405
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


gordec wrote:
I think the M12 will also have an antifreeze chamber where you can pour antifreeze in it. Then you can use whatever SD card you want.


Better yet, the Leica M12 will be the Sony A2 with all the bells and whistles. Finally, all Leica shooters will get what they want and more. It will also have a stacked BSI 100 Mp sensor. Finally, the camera will be so complex that you would need a doctorate in photography to operate it . . .



May 14, 2024 at 01:50 PM
1bwana1
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


All I know is that if I don't get damn good IBIS in the new M12 I will end up with a shaved head, and in one of these contraptions which they will use to burn holes in my brain to stop my essential tremors (thanks Dad).

Leica, Save me....







May 14, 2024 at 02:00 PM
retrofocus
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


rscheffler wrote:
But for this to happen I think it would need to be slowly integrated in the M system over the span of several models to allow time for the new 'RF' to be accepted by the broader user base.


I would accept this in a split second.....



May 14, 2024 at 02:50 PM
RustyBug
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


ksrhee2405 wrote:
As you know, Fuji did not make a true ranger finder hybrid viewfinder. Unfortunately, many folks outside the forum always get confused and suggest how easy it is to do it with the M given that Fuji has done it. Leica tried and found is not satisfactory in the past. As far as I know there is no true ranger finder hybrid viewfinder.


That's kinda my take on it, too.

Fuji had a few different "options" ... including an emulation for a split prism focusing, but implementation left me lacking there, too. Certainly nothing remotely close to the 100% silver mirror onto ground glass ... (but, that ship sailed when we went digital) experience from the film era.

Will be interesting to see if / how they enhance the RF focusing experience, even if it is only a "partial" enhancement. Personally, I just would like the RF to be brighter / higher contrast. The process of lining up the rangefinder is fine, it's just the aging eyes struggle in lower light / lower contrast. A built in diopter / magnifier option wouldn't hurt my feelings, either.



May 14, 2024 at 08:52 PM
ksrhee2405
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


RustyBug wrote:
Will be interesting to see if / how they enhance the RF focusing experience, even if it is only a "partial" enhancement. Personally, I just would like the RF to be brighter / higher contrast. The process of lining up the rangefinder is fine, it's just the aging eyes struggle in lower light / lower contrast. A built in diopter / magnifier option wouldn't hurt my feelings, either.


I would suggest you check out the Light Lens Lab’s 1.4x magnifying viewer option. It as a built-in +3/-3 diopter and the magnification helps to focus using certain lenses (especially longer focal length). I found it to be helpful.

Edited on May 26, 2024 at 04:30 PM · View previous versions



May 15, 2024 at 04:51 AM
 


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Fred Miranda
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


Leica M12 camera mockups/leaks from Leica Rumors:













May 21, 2024 at 11:31 AM
Andrew CD
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


These M12 possibilities are fascinating, but what I really want is a Tri-Summilux 35-50-75. No larger than my 50mm Summicron-M v5, please.


May 21, 2024 at 12:03 PM
Desmolicious
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


Fred Miranda wrote:
Leica M12 camera mockups/leaks from Leica Rumors:


The M13 will bring back the ISO dial and then everyone will want that one.
It will then be removed on the M14.



May 21, 2024 at 10:31 PM
Arka
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


Fred Miranda wrote:
It appears that the rumored Leica M12 is shifting towards a more computerized and touchscreen-driven direction, possibly at the expense of the classic German engineering and mechanical feel. Traditional Leica fans might stick with film or current models, but these options could become rarer as Leica tries to attract a broader, younger audience.


I do think the removal of physical buttons and dials from a Leica would be unfortunate. That said, I would welcome a hybrid EVF viewfinder. My aging eyes don't work well with an RF anymore.



May 21, 2024 at 10:35 PM
Desmolicious
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


rscheffler wrote:
Yes, I think the sensor would be more accurate but the value of integrating it with the mechanical RF mechanism IMO is two-fold - the RF patch quickly and visually tells you which direct to focus and in situations where the sensor might be unable to reliably generate focus information, the RF patch can usually display enough contrast information to visually focus quickly in low light.

With my M the RF patch has been out of calibration for a long time. Depending on the lens I'm using, I know how much to intentionally mis-align the RF patch for correct focus.
...Show more

All Leica has to do is give the new M to a Kardashian and everyone will accept it. Even those who have never heard of Leica before.

FYI adjusting the rf on your camera is very easy. We could have done it in 5 mins w a little hex wrench…

Pointers here: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1845240/



May 21, 2024 at 10:39 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


Desmolicious wrote:
All Leica has to do is give the new M to a Kardashian and everyone will accept it. Even those who have never heard of Leica before.

FYI adjusting the rf on your camera is very easy. We could have done it in 5 mins w a little hex wrench…

Pointers here: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1845240/


It's inevitable that the Leica M will become less mechanical and more electronic in the years to come. They probably have to in order to broaden their base. Personally, I'm attracted to their mechanical engineering, so I'm not enthusiastic about changes like removing the mechanical shutter, tactile dials, and the classic rangefinder.



May 26, 2024 at 11:36 AM
Desmolicious
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


Fred Miranda wrote:
It's inevitable that the Leica M will become less mechanical and more electronic in the years to come. They probably have to in order to broaden their base. Personally, I'm attracted to their mechanical engineering, so I'm not enthusiastic about changes like removing the mechanical shutter, tactile dials, and the classic rangefinder.


Yup the whole reason I got into digital Ms is because I wanted a camera that felt and handled like a traditional film camera, but had a digital back. The M was and still is the only game in town. The Pixxi isn’t because it crops the traditional lenses, the DF wasn’t because it focuses like cr@p as well as all the buttons everywhere and the cheap hollow feeling (a Nikon FM or F3 doesn’t feel like that), the ZF is kinda close but is EVF only etc.



May 26, 2024 at 11:54 AM
1bwana1
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


Desmolicious wrote:
All Leica has to do is give the new M to a Kardashian and everyone will accept it. Even those who have never heard of Leica before.



I don't know. If you sent me a Kardashian and a Leica, I would just send the Kardashian beck and keep the Leica. A Kardashian could even sell me a used TV.



May 26, 2024 at 12:01 PM
Desmolicious
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


1bwana1 wrote:
I don't know. If you sent me a Kardashian and a Leica, I would just send the Kardashian beck and keep the Leica. A Kardashian could even sell me a used TV.


Butt would you borrow one?



May 26, 2024 at 01:32 PM
1bwana1
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


Desmolicious wrote:
Butt would you borrow one?


Nope, not my style. Sort of reminds me of a Z9, oversized and unnecessarily heavy.



May 26, 2024 at 01:43 PM
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