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First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)

  
 
rscheffler
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


goodbokeh wrote:
- Finally a stacked sensor, the 50MP Sony A1 model. No mechanical shutter just like the Nikon Z8 & 9.


Yes, of course. I totally forgot the stacked option and it would completely eliminate the need for adding EFCS. IMO stacked would make so much sense for the M - fast and quiet - exactly what would suit its core strength as a discreet, stealthy camera. IMO it's what should have been in the M11 rather than the 60MP sensor with pathetic e-shutter readout speed that is fine if you're using an a7RIV/V on a tripod shooting landscapes...

flash wrote:
Or Leica will release an L mount camera in an M style, allowing the adaptor to take M lenses. I see no option where there won't be an M without an RF or a hybrid option.

Personally, I'd prefer the L mount option.


Agree completely. There was another thread recently and this is precisely what I advocated - an L mount EVF camera shaped like an M or Q. The benefit of the L mount is AF capability that most probably will want. Use of M mount lens via adapter is IMO an acceptable tradeoff.



May 11, 2024 at 02:31 AM
stgrove
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


RSSmith wrote:
I think I'll buy another M10.



I think I'll buy another M11.



May 11, 2024 at 07:36 AM
olegkin
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


Robin Smith wrote:
But it think that is exactly what the user base of Ms do not want. Peaking, magnified images all that junk. If you want that you can use the screen.


As long as I can still see through EVF with diopter adjustments I see no use for the screen, since I have to wear glasses to see screen, but no glasses to see the subject. But I also almost never used screen when eyes were fine and prefer cameras where it can be disabled or turned away. M-D FTW, in terms of this group




May 11, 2024 at 08:58 AM
olegkin
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


Robin Smith wrote:
But it think that is exactly what the user base of Ms do not want. Peaking, magnified images all that junk. If you want that you can use the screen.


Imagine a camera that gives you a little haptic feedback when it detected eyes in sharp focus on wide open lens. Or, even take a picture automatically. No more "creative" out of focus portraits on leica forums, end of era! I kind of agree that most implementations of peaking have a huge room for improvement. As for zoom, did Leica even learn yet to show full screen of what you shoot, or do they still do framing outlines only?



May 11, 2024 at 09:15 AM
stgrove
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


olegkin wrote:
Imagine a camera that gives you a little haptic feedback when it detected eyes in sharp focus on wide open lens. Or, even take a picture automatically. No more "creative" out of focus portraits on leica forums, end of era! I kind of agree that most implementations of peaking have a huge room for improvement. As for zoom, did Leica even learn yet to show full screen of what you shoot, or do they still do framing outlines only?


Yes, this exactly what the SL line of cameras all do after the 2023 FW upgrade. It puts one small square over each eye in green. You have the option to choose only one eye if preferred.



May 11, 2024 at 09:24 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


olegkin wrote:
Imagine a camera that gives you a little haptic feedback when it detected eyes in sharp focus on wide open lens. Or, even take a picture automatically. No more "creative" out of focus portraits on leica forums, end of era! I kind of agree that most implementations of peaking have a huge room for improvement. As for zoom, did Leica even learn yet to show full screen of what you shoot, or do they still do framing outlines only?


Yes, Leica M cameras have frame lines and some of us actually like the frame lines so we can see more of the scene through the viewfinder than the sensor will actually capture. We can see the scene unfolding and take the shot as the desired composition emerges; all while looking through the viewfinder. There is a long history of valuing this "seeing more than the lens captures," in the viewfinder. You may not value it, but many of us do. It isn't possible with an EVF unless you crop the image.

By the way, I also value magnification of the image in the viewfinder, which isn't possible with the rangefinder OVF unless you add optics to the OVF (some people regularly do this when they shoot telephoto lenses).

So, both EVFs and OVFs do things that the other type of viewfinder cannot. Different people will of course value different things, so one is not objectively better than the other, but rather you should pick the type of viewfinder that suits you best or perhaps have a camera or cameras that can do both and then you will still need to pick what you want in a specific situation.



May 11, 2024 at 10:22 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


There's something to be said about manually metering and manually focusing your images using the rangefinder. It's possible to achieve precise exposure and focus, even with ultra-fast lenses, and there's satisfaction in that. It's not the same when the camera handles everything electronically, but there are situations, particularly when shooting professional action, where all this technology is desired.
In the case shooting with a Leica M, which many use for street photography, none of the modern tech options are actually needed.

olegkin wrote:
Imagine a camera that gives you a little haptic feedback when it detected eyes in sharp focus on wide open lens. Or, even take a picture automatically. No more "creative" out of focus portraits on leica forums, end of era! I kind of agree that most implementations of peaking have a huge room for improvement. As for zoom, did Leica even learn yet to show full screen of what you shoot, or do they still do framing outlines only?




May 11, 2024 at 10:49 AM
goodbokeh
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


The Leica Rumors guy gets things wrong sometimes. So this rumored EVF M12 may not be the M12 at all. It may be an EVF model that stands alone with its own designation. An example would be this: "mirrorless" in German is "spiegein" so it could be called the SP.

Logically this rumored EVF model would have an M, not L mount, have ibis, and a stacked sensor possessing the traditional M design of canted corner pixels with a very thin cover glass to maximize M lens optical performance.

I don't think the price will be much less than the current M11-P but I do hope there is a generous amount of Panasonic DNA under the hood, like there is for the Q line. As we know, electronics is Leica's chronic weakness.



May 11, 2024 at 11:29 AM
Thury
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


goodbokeh wrote:
Logically this rumored EVF model would have an M, not L mount, have ibis, and a stacked sensor possessing the traditional M design of canted corner pixels with a very thin cover glass to maximize M lens optical performance.


Unless technology changes, when you add IBIS to a camera, you add things behind the sensor so you make a thicker body. If you keep the M Mount you also keep it's flange-focal distance so you get a camera where the thickness from back to M mount flange is notably increased. To avoid making a monster, logically you keep the body shape where your hands grip it as before and add some kind of tube in front to push the flange to the proper distance from the sensor. Once you've done this kind of "long nose body", you realize that this tube in front is just empty and that you could change the primary lens mount on the body to a L mount, flush with the front of the camera and use an adapter for M mount lenses.
Basically that's what happens when we adapt M lenses on an hybrid body (any brand you like): the total thickness from M lens flange to back of the body increases by the thickness of the adapter.



May 11, 2024 at 12:14 PM
BPsmith511
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


Bring back the M240 body and the monster battery then


May 11, 2024 at 02:45 PM
 


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SrMi
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


Thury wrote:
Unless technology changes, when you add IBIS to a camera, you add things behind the sensor so you make a thicker body. If you keep the M Mount you also keep it's flange-focal distance so you get a camera where the thickness from back to M mount flange is notably increased. To avoid making a monster, logically you keep the body shape where your hands grip it as before and add some kind of tube in front to push the flange to the proper distance from the sensor. Once you've done this kind of "long nose body", you realize that
...Show more

X100VI increased the body thickness by about 2mm because of IBIS. Eliminating the mechanical shutter (stacked sensor) could keep the main body thickness (where you hold the camera) the same, but one would have to move the lens mount 2 mm forward to preserve the flange-focal distance.



May 11, 2024 at 03:15 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


SrMi wrote:
X100VI increased the body thickness by about 2mm because of IBIS. Eliminating the mechanical shutter (stacked sensor) could keep the main body thickness (where you hold the camera) the same, but one would have to move the lens mount 2 mm forward to preserve the flange-focal distance.


They could still add IBIS and still reduce the body thickness without bumping out the mount by:

  1. Removing the mechanical shutter
  2. Thinner rear screen
  3. Moving the circuit boards behind the sensor to the side spaces freed up by the removal of the mechanical shutter and rangefinder linkage

The IBIS could also be fewer stops than most full frame IBIS units, which would allow for a more compact IBIS mechanism with less space needed for movement.



May 11, 2024 at 04:03 PM
johnvanr
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


The nice thing about Leica rumors is that they donít cause GAS, because the prices when new are so high I have to wait for used copies anyway.

I would like a smallish body that takes M lenses with the tech of the Nikon MF functions.



May 11, 2024 at 04:40 PM
FrozenInTime
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


highdesertmesa wrote:
They could still add IBIS and still reduce the body thickness without bumping out the mount by:

  1. Removing the mechanical shutter
  2. Thinner rear screen
  3. Moving the circuit boards behind the sensor to the side spaces freed up by the removal of the mechanical shutter and rangefinder linkage

The IBIS could also be fewer stops than most full frame IBIS units, which would allow for a more compact IBIS mechanism with less space needed for movement.


The limited availability of very thin COTS OLED displays might tie in with the rumours suggesting a TL like rear panel.



May 11, 2024 at 04:46 PM
flash
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


highdesertmesa wrote:
They could still add IBIS and still reduce the body thickness without bumping out the mount by:

  1. Removing the mechanical shutter
  2. Thinner rear screen
  3. Moving the circuit boards behind the sensor to the side spaces freed up by the removal of the mechanical shutter and rangefinder linkage

The IBIS could also be fewer stops than most full frame IBIS units, which would allow for a more compact IBIS mechanism with less space needed for movement.


The shutter mech is in front of the sensor so I don't see how that would help/ An M-D style camera would. Or they could just push the lens mount ring out a few mm and keep the body the same.

Gordon



May 11, 2024 at 04:49 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


BPsmith511 wrote:
Bring back the M240 body and the monster battery then


I just bought an M-D 262 and have been shooting for 3 days. The battery is still at 75%! I missed that when upgrading to the M10.



May 11, 2024 at 06:18 PM
1bwana1
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)




Fred Miranda wrote:
I just bought an M-D 262 and have been shooting for 3 days. The battery is still at 75%! I missed that when upgrading to the M10.


Long battery life is back with the M11.



May 11, 2024 at 06:41 PM
BPsmith511
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


Fred Miranda wrote:
I just bought an M-D 262 and have been shooting for 3 days. The battery is still at 75%! I missed that when upgrading to the M10.


Enjoying it? Considered it heavily but decided it's a bit too niche for my first Leica. Debating a 262 to at least have some screen, though no live view.



May 11, 2024 at 07:28 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


1bwana1 wrote:
Long battery life is back with the M11.


Yeah, that's a great feature for the M11! If you mainly use the rangefinder and don't rely much on the screen, the battery lasts a long time. The M10 drains quickly even with just the rangefinder. Carrying extra batteries helps, but the larger battery in the M240 and M11 series is definitely a plus.
---------------------------------------------

BPsmith511 wrote:
Enjoying it? Considered it heavily but decided it's a bit too niche for my first Leica. Debating a 262 to at least have some screen, though no live view.


It's love at first sight. I love the 24MP DNG files and the simplicity of the design. There are no menus, no screen, no buttons, no Wi-Fi, just like shooting film. The only setting that can be changed is the date and time! There is a custom button, though, that allows for exposure compensation when using aperture mode. This same button lets you know the battery level (in percentage) and the number of remaining shots (on the OVF). There isn't even auto ISO. Glory for some, nightmare for others.




Lovely reds. Image straight out of the camera using the Leica (Voigtlander 28/2.8 Color-Skopar)

  LEICA M-D (Typ 262)    not selected lens    f/3.4    1/4000s    200 ISO    0.0 EV  




May 11, 2024 at 07:46 PM
BPsmith511
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · First M12 Rumors (Leicarumors.com)


Fred Miranda wrote:
Yeah, that's a great feature for the M11! If you mainly use the rangefinder and don't rely much on the screen, the battery lasts a long time. The M10 drains quickly even with just the rangefinder. Carrying extra batteries helps, but the larger battery in the M240 and M11 series is definitely a plus.
---------------------------------------------

It's love at first sight. I love the 24MP DNG files and the simplicity of the design. There are no menus, no screen, no buttons, no Wi-Fi, just like shooting film. The only setting that can be changed is the date and time! There is a
...Show more

Yeah, the digital-film aspect really appeals to me. Honestly I'd grab an M3 or M6 or something but at this point in life the film workflow is not for me. But seeing at it's my first Leica I don't think going all in with an M-D is my brightest idea. That's why the regular 262 interested me, no live-view so more minimal but a screen there if you need to review/change setting.



May 11, 2024 at 08:02 PM
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