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Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?

  
 
1bwana1
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p.11 #1 · p.11 #1 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?




newyork wrote:
You just made me want to hold out for a Leica. lol.



Well you had one before so know exactly how much you enjoyed the experience and why you miss having one. Once finances allow you will have another. It is good to have aspirations.



May 26, 2024 at 09:51 AM
newyork
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p.11 #2 · p.11 #2 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


The more I look the more I want a m10R or even an R but they just cost more than I can justify so I’m looking at the M10.

Came this close to a ZF yesterday. But I just want that Leica.

1bwana1 wrote:
Well you had one before so know exactly how much you enjoyed the experience and why you miss having one. Once finances allow you will have another. It is good to have aspirations.




May 26, 2024 at 10:07 AM
coralnut
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p.11 #3 · p.11 #3 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


newyork wrote:
You just made me want to hold out for a Leica. lol.


I'm glad to have done my part.



May 26, 2024 at 10:40 AM
scalanc2
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p.11 #4 · p.11 #4 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


newyork wrote:
You just made me want to hold out for a Leica. lol.


Soul will be ok.
Then you need an other camera to take pictures.



May 26, 2024 at 11:48 AM
newyork
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p.11 #5 · p.11 #5 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


I’ve got a Z8 too. Want something small. Edc.

scalanc2 wrote:
Soul will be ok.
Then you need an other camera to take pictures.




May 26, 2024 at 11:56 AM
chatcher
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p.11 #6 · p.11 #6 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


An M10 will remind you of what you liked about the M6/4/3/2 or whatever you once used, but there will be aspects that don’t quite measure up to your fond memories.

Nostalgia might be my trouble. It turns the old days into the “good old days”, and makes “they don’t make ‘em like they used to” seem like a bad thing.




May 26, 2024 at 12:12 PM
newyork
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p.11 #7 · p.11 #7 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


I’ve only had the M10 with a 50 1.2 on it.

chatcher wrote:
An M10 will remind you of what you liked about the M6/4/3/2 or whatever you once used, but there will be aspects that don’t quite measure up to your fond memories.

Nostalgia might be my trouble. It turns the old days into the “good old days”, and makes “they don’t make ‘em like they used to” seem like a bad thing.





May 26, 2024 at 12:27 PM
chatcher
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p.11 #8 · p.11 #8 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


newyork wrote:
I’ve only had the M10 with a 50 1.2 on it.



Well, if you ever want to take a trip down the rabbit hole, get an M6 body and a few rolls of film…



May 26, 2024 at 12:33 PM
newyork
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p.11 #9 · p.11 #9 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


Despite being close to 50, I only got I to photography 18 months ago. Wish that were not the case.


May 26, 2024 at 12:54 PM
elkhornsun
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p.11 #10 · p.11 #10 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


In the old days when the Leica and other rangefinder cameras were popular the photographers were limited to 35mm and 50mm focal length lenses unless they did not mind attaching a special optical finder on the camera. There is the belief that 50mm is ideal when for people it is actually short in several key respects, though not as bad as a 35mm focal length and the perspective distortion it can produce which is seen in so many posted photos of people.


May 26, 2024 at 10:09 PM
 


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taildraggin
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p.11 #11 · p.11 #11 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


Tool fetishes aside, name a camera that can help focus a MF lens better.


May 27, 2024 at 08:24 AM
philip_pj
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p.11 #12 · p.11 #12 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


I agree that 'the belief that 50mm is ideal when for people it is actually short in several key respects'. That is why there are quite a number of 55mm and 58mm lenses scattered through the history of 135 lenses, from Nikon, Voigtlander, Topcor, Carl Zeiss, Minolta, Pentax, Rollei, Mamiya and many more.

50mm is a kind of utilitarian focal length we are all 'forced' to use. If makers cared about artistic qualities, they would remake the great old lenses, but we won't even get an Otus 55mm in a decent size because Zeiss went away after making these Otus/Milvus monsters. In a way, it's a solid reason to use a midzoom for people but lens speed stymies you there.



May 27, 2024 at 11:09 PM
philip_pj
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p.11 #13 · p.11 #13 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


'help focus a MF lens better'

It's not that hard though, is it? Once you have your schtick down pat with your camera, that's it done. The B&H Zf user reviews barely mention manual focus lens usage.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1788062-REG/nikon_1761_zf_mirrorless_camera.html/reviews

Sony always knew their cameras were going to be used for MF lenses and designed them accordingly. Their EVFs are legendary, their IBIS was a sensation when introduced, and it dramatically improved MF portraiture with the lenses we want to use: 50-75-85-90-100mm. Fast MF is all about preparation and experience, however.

You can even use a Leica M. But why deal with focus shift, RF adjusts, infinity setting issues, artifical limits to focus accuracy at longer portrait FLs, And the big one: not seeing how/what the lens sees? RFs work pretty well in limited circumstances. Effectively, you are restricted to relatively close focus distances with middling focal lengths.

https://www.flickr.com/groups/leica-portraits/pool/with/53225699185

Not much good for candid (stranger) portraits, which require greater dexterity and more flattering perspectives. And the RF is artificial - a parallel engineered system placed above your natural vision. You work the mechanism rather than use the lens. You are divorced from the lens and you never see what it sees!

So, many prefer to see how the lens portrays the person with magnification. At full size, you see bokeh, focus fade, light direction - all of it actually from the sensor, the precious capture surface. Who you going to believe? The rangefinder mech or your lying eyes?

'I used to quite happily use the Leica Noctilux 50mm f1 lens on my Leica M8, M9 and M240. Once I saw how easy it is to focus with the Leica SL now I use that camera for fast glass every time without hesitation.'

https://mrleica.com/%F0%9F%94%B4-leica-portrait-photographer-best-leica-camera-for-portraits/



May 28, 2024 at 12:18 AM
1bwana1
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p.11 #14 · p.11 #14 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?



philip_pj wrote:
'help focus a MF lens better'

It's not that hard though, is it? Once you have your schtick down pat with your camera, that's it done. The B&H Zf user reviews barely mention manual focus lens usage.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1788062-REG/nikon_1761_zf_mirrorless_camera.html/reviews

Sony always knew their cameras were going to be used for MF lenses and designed them accordingly. Their EVFs are legendary, their IBIS was a sensation when introduced, and it dramatically improved MF portraiture with the lenses we want to use: 50-75-85-90-100mm. Fast MF is all about preparation and experience, however.

You can even use a Leica M. But why deal with focus shift,
...Show more

Any recent model M camera provides all of those MF features plus the Range Finder. You can choose EVF, Rear Screen, or RF, depending on subject and focal length. The mirrorless TTL methods provide all the focus assistance like WYSIWYG, zoom in, and focus peaking, along with excellent on sensor exposure metering.

Honestly however, I almost always just use the Range Finder. Candid street portraits are one of my most shot subjects. I understand the apeal of the SL camera, but I strongly prefer the M camera and lens form factor. End the end they both use the same sensor these days.



May 28, 2024 at 06:00 AM
Jepser
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p.11 #15 · p.11 #15 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


For me, long time (all my life) manual focus user who have and had Nikons and Leicas I would definitly say that the manual focus assistance on the Zf have more impact than I thought it would. Its just great. I never had such good hit-rate in action enviroments and in moving crowds.


May 28, 2024 at 06:05 AM
taildraggin
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p.11 #16 · p.11 #16 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


"Better" means better.

50/1.0 focusing is accurate, faster with the Zf, no contest. Canon RF is good, but doesn't have the eye confirmation, yet. Other cameras can... focus

I got a FE with the K split in 1978 (Meterless Leica guys were complaining then that its batteries would die in the field and where would you be?). It's about as quick and accurate to focus as that.

There are 2 pretty good reasons to get the Zf: it's the cheapest, smallest Nikon with good AF and it has great MF aids.
(I like Nikon 'cause of their solid auto exposure and the colors right out of the camera.)

Yes, the Zf competes functionally more directly with the larger, maybe not so great(?) SL, which would not be my first choice street camera.



May 28, 2024 at 04:03 PM
philip_pj
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p.11 #17 · p.11 #17 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


'Any recent model M camera provides all of those MF features plus the Range Finder. You can choose EVF..'

Does a modern M camera have an integrated EVF in the manner of all mirrorless cameras? Not talking about the optional stick on device (the 'Visoflex') that is exposed to the weather (light use only), sells for $740 and can be easily dislodged and damaged in harsh environments and crowds.

That Visoflex pseudo-solution has less than half the resolution of Sony's a7rV EVF (3.7md vs 9.4md). It indeed does flex apparently, tilt might be better word though. It's an optional extra!

And it is huge - all of two inches on each dimension! It dominates the body totally, and is the very antithesis of aesthetic appeal. It also adds 180 grams to the camera, bringing the M11 up to 710 grams. I would not want that one either. Readers can see it here:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1682572-REG/leica_levf2_visoflex_2_electronic_viewfinder.html/reviews

These Rube Goldberg workarounds are not something most people would equate with the elegant and now standard design of our mirrorless cameras, which are really best called 'EVF cameras', such is their functional integration around these sophisticated new age innovations. So I don't beleive we can say Leica have an EVF in a meaningful and functional way, just this fudge.



May 28, 2024 at 07:04 PM
philip_pj
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p.11 #18 · p.11 #18 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


When will they jump in and find the water warm enough? It's an intriguing battle, reminiscent of the DSLR vs mirrorless days, when the old school spent five years demeaning the technological leap forward of Sony's cameras (toy cameras they called them), before shrugging their shoulders and entering the modern age.

'When is the Leica M with built in EVF (Electronic Viewfinder) coming? Leica, a brand synonymous with luxury, precision, and photographic heritage, may be on the precipice of a transformative evolution here..I speculate that Leica will come to offer a version of their Leica M with an EVF and the same thing as a traditional rangefinder.'

The hybrid idea seems unpopular with Leica too:

'The conclusion Leica reached was that a hybrid viewfinder (as in for example Fujifilm X-Pro) would be a compromise: The quality of the OVF would be less than now, and the digital viewfinder wouldn’t pass the test either. Thus hybrid viewfinder is off the table and have been for years.'

https://www.adaminsights.com/leica-m-with-built-in-evf-will-it-happen/
(October 2023)



May 28, 2024 at 07:04 PM
1bwana1
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p.11 #19 · p.11 #19 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


philip_pj wrote:
'Any recent model M camera provides all of those MF features plus the Range Finder. You can choose EVF..'

Does a modern M camera have an integrated EVF in the manner of all mirrorless cameras? Not talking about the optional stick on device (the 'Visoflex') that is exposed to the weather (light use only), sells for $740 and can be easily dislodged and damaged in harsh environments and crowds.

That Visoflex pseudo-solution has less than half the resolution of Sony's a7rV EVF (3.7md vs 9.4md). It indeed does flex apparently, tilt might be better word though. It's an optional extra!

And it
...Show more

The VisoFlex performs in line with the industry, and works fine for focusing and WYSIWYG shooting. Yes the top end Sony cameras have better EVFs as I am aware on my A1. But the adjustable angle, and the ability to remove, provide convenience the fixed EVFs don't. There are tradeoffs and compromises in all solutions. So, yes I do say the the Visoflex provides meaningful EVF functionality.


The whole M system is for light weather only and the Visoflex holds up to that same standard. Your M lenses whether VM or Leica are also not weather sealed when you mount them on your SL body. So both system are equal in that regard.




May 28, 2024 at 07:15 PM
JustShootMe
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p.11 #20 · p.11 #20 · Nikon Zf, the perfect street photography camera?


The difference is not only does the ZF have great manual focus tools , it also has autofocus . I use it with a 800mm lens daily , then slap on a Voigtlander 50 1.5 and go shoot a band with manual focus , or slap on an adapter and use the same manual focus lens with full AF subject detection etc. You can’t do that on an M, you just can’t . Yes the Nikon doesn’t have a rangefinder , but the potential to shoot different scenarios is much greater. It’s personal choice , but let’s not discount the choice of others because of some BS elitism.


May 28, 2024 at 09:07 PM
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