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Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?

  
 
GMPhotography
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p.8 #1 · p.8 #1 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


snapsy wrote:
Who do you believe purchases more flagship cameras - pros or hobbyists? To help answer that question, consider how much time and money Sony spends on prosumer/hobbyist-targeted influencers.


Hobbyist carry the market no question but this cam as well as the A1 was built more for Pro use. Most A1 shooters on this site are birders which they need that speed. I never shot past 10 fps in my life.



Apr 17, 2024 at 09:43 AM
GMPhotography
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p.8 #2 · p.8 #2 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


I honestly don't think Sony had any vision that this would sell like hotcakes far from it. This was their marketing camera to say one they build the most advanced camera and to test the global shutter market and dive deeper into it later. Basically a test bed


Apr 17, 2024 at 09:45 AM
snapsy
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p.8 #3 · p.8 #3 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


GMPhotography wrote:
Hobbyist carry the market no question but this cam as well as the A1 was built more for Pro use. Most A1 shooters on this site are birders which they need that speed. I never shot past 10 fps in my life.


Absolutely agree, the A1/A9 series are designed and built for pro-use. But that's also what makes them so attractive to hobbysits like me and others who are part of the "aspirational pro" crowd.

What's interesting is how the premium cost of these cameras has an inverted impact on purchasing decisions. Pros like yourself are much more likely to heavily weigh cost in the purchasing decision - the gear has to earn its keep and prove itself worthy of the premium over alternatives. Hobbysits aren't constrained by that practicality.



Apr 17, 2024 at 09:50 AM
GMPhotography
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p.8 #4 · p.8 #4 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


More important at least to me is that the hobbyist grow and learn what a camera like this can acomplish in there shooting. People are so hung up on the price. Photography is not about what it costs, it's all about the ART you can create. Costs are costs and Sony is entitled to make a profit and we want them too as products like this not only grow the market but help shooters solve problems. Heck I hate the 6 k price tag but the relive and ease of us not to mention the abilities it can do than I understand it . This cam is short one thing for me the MPX but for many shooters that's enough. I bet you see hundreds of these being used at the upcoming Olympics


Apr 17, 2024 at 09:53 AM
jhapeman
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p.8 #5 · p.8 #5 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


snapsy wrote:
Absolutely agree, the A1/A9 series are designed and built for pro-use. But that's also what makes them so attractive to hobbysits like me and others who are part of the "aspirational pro" crowd.

What's interesting is how the premium cost of these cameras has an inverted impact on purchasing decisions. Pros like yourself are much more likely to heavily weigh cost in the purchasing decision - the gear has to earn its keep and prove itself worthy of the premium over alternatives. Hobbysits aren't constrained by that practicality.


Hobbyists are limited by disposable cash and cognitive dissonance over spending on something that will never pay for itself. A pro can write off the expense, and as long as the tool works, the only justification has to be whether you have the free cash flow and will it benefit you. Much more likely for a pro to buy one as a result--and they are vastly less likely to spend the time navel-gazing and posting on forums like this. It's a tool, not something to have fun with.



Apr 17, 2024 at 09:53 AM
snapsy
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p.8 #6 · p.8 #6 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


jhapeman wrote:
Hobbyists are limited by disposable cash and cognitive dissonance over spending on something that will never pay for itself. A pro can write off the expense, and as long as the tool works, the only justification has to be whether you have the free cash flow and will it benefit you. Much more likely for a pro to buy one as a result--and they are vastly less likely to spend the time navel-gazing and posting on forums like this. It's a tool, not something to have fun with.


Speaking to your disposable cash statement, there are 24.5 millionaires in the USA alone. In contrast, there are 293,339 career photographers. The Venn diagrams between the two is orthoginal.



Apr 17, 2024 at 09:58 AM
GMPhotography
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p.8 #7 · p.8 #7 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


snapsy wrote:
Absolutely agree, the A1/A9 series are designed and built for pro-use. But that's also what makes them so attractive to hobbysits like me and others who are part of the "aspirational pro" crowd.

What's interesting is how the premium cost of these cameras has an inverted impact on purchasing decisions. Pros like yourself are much more likely to heavily weigh cost in the purchasing decision - the gear has to earn its keep and prove itself worthy of the premium over alternatives. Hobbysits aren't constrained by that practicality.


Absolutely these cams have to prove their worth or it's just a paper weight. I can see the advantages of it for sure but hobbyists don't always shoot what the Pros shoot but having a tool with little limitations is worth any costs .

Have to tell you this story. I put on and produced about 30 destination workshops all over the US and Puerto Rico and what the hobbyist would spend on gear was frightening . Most where Medium Format workshops and folks would show up far better gear than I had and at huge costs. Im talking maybe even 100 grand in gear . Go look at prices of Medium Format backs it will scare you. I had 5 of them and I spent an absolute fortune on them BUT I was making money they are not. So the money thing for hobbyists is really a mixed bag. It's just like golf I have the absoulte best gear at whopping pricing but I also have the mentality im buying my golf game( Silly but I am pretty good at it). No difference hobbyist do the same thing in photography buy the best gear they can get there hands on to buy skill or at least think they can

Edited on Apr 17, 2024 at 10:08 AM · View previous versions



Apr 17, 2024 at 10:00 AM
GMPhotography
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p.8 #8 · p.8 #8 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


jhapeman wrote:
Hobbyists are limited by disposable cash and cognitive dissonance over spending on something that will never pay for itself. A pro can write off the expense, and as long as the tool works, the only justification has to be whether you have the free cash flow and will it benefit you. Much more likely for a pro to buy one as a result--and they are vastly less likely to spend the time navel-gazing and posting on forums like this. It's a tool, not something to have fun with.


My gig doing the runway shows I can buy about 3 A9III per show. I can justify anything but you try to be smart too and try not to buy over the need at least I do

Edited on Apr 17, 2024 at 10:03 AM · View previous versions



Apr 17, 2024 at 10:02 AM
chez
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p.8 #9 · p.8 #9 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?




jhapeman wrote:
Hobbyists are limited by disposable cash and cognitive dissonance over spending on something that will never pay for itself. A pro can write off the expense, and as long as the tool works, the only justification has to be whether you have the free cash flow and will it benefit you. Much more likely for a pro to buy one as a result--and they are vastly less likely to spend the time navel-gazing and posting on forums like this. It's a tool, not something to have fun with.


Iíd say the high end market is much larger for enthusiasts than it is for pros. I know my share of pros that just continue to use the same equipment theyív been using for years. The pro photography market has been heavily hit the last 10 years and disposable income is not what it used to be.



Apr 17, 2024 at 10:02 AM
1bwana1
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p.8 #10 · p.8 #10 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


A74me wrote:
its not ridiculous, the a74 can outperform th gfx100ii download dustin abbots images if you want the facts.


Interesting that you started with the Z8 then switched to A74. The resolution of the A74 is so much lower that it will never compete with the GFX in IQ except possible in very low light. It is also 14 BIT only.

You are aware of course that the GFX100II is not a true medium format sensor. It is actually somewhere between full frame and true medium format.

This quote from your own source Dustin Abbot:

"Before we dive in to the good stuff, letís get a few relevant details out of the way. Purists will point out that Fujifilmís GFX sensor is not actually true medium format. Itís true that the sensor size (43.8 x 32mm) is about halfway between a full frame sensor (35.9 x 24mm) and Hasselbladís 53 x 40mm sensor size. You can see a comparison of sensor size below:"

https://dustinabbott.net/2023/10/fujifilm-gfx100-ii-medium-format-camera-review/

But even so the Dynamic range of even the Fuji is miles ahead of the Z8, and the true med format of the Phase One is at an even higher level. Click this link to see them graphed against each other. I did include the A74 just to cover your bases. You will see the differences are huge.

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#FujiFilm%20GFX%20100%20II,Nikon%20Z%208,Phase%20One%20IQ4%20150MP,Sony%20ILCE-7M4

Then we move on to Bit Depth. The Z8 is 14-BIT, the GFX is 16 BIT (but not a great implementation), and the Phase 1 is a full 16 BIT. This has a big influence on IQ.

So your assertation that the Z8 will match a medium format is ridiculous on its face. Dustin Abbott is a very nice Canadian Minister who does enjoyable anecdotal style reviews. There is better technical information available elsewhere.

I can imagine a shooting condition where the faster sensor speed of the Z8 will give it an advantage, but it cannot match medium format in IQ. In fact if you chart the Dynamic Range of the Z8 against the other FF sensors in similar resolutions it is mostly lower. Not enough to make a significant IQ difference for most viewers however.

In the end medium format has strong advantages in resolution, dynamic range, and bit depth. These are the building blocks of IQ. Your statement to the contrary is ridiculous.

Edited on Apr 17, 2024 at 10:43 AM · View previous versions



Apr 17, 2024 at 10:03 AM
 


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jhapeman
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p.8 #11 · p.8 #11 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


snapsy wrote:
Speaking to your disposable cash statement, there are 24.5 millionaires in the USA alone. In contrast, there are 293,339 career photographers. The Venn diagrams between the two is orthoginal.


Useless math though. You don't have to be a millionaire to afford this camera. You also don't know what Sony's sales goals for a model like this are. Data on working photographers and millionaires are just data points in a vacuum without more relevant information.



Apr 17, 2024 at 10:03 AM
GMPhotography
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p.8 #12 · p.8 #12 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


I had 5 Phase one Medium format backs as high as 80 mpx and they are amazing. 35mm can't touch it but what 35mm can do is make it far easier to shoot Professionally with all it varies abilities as a better working cam. I could not shoot many things when I had MF as the bodies where not there in to this day are still are not


Apr 17, 2024 at 10:06 AM
snapsy
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p.8 #13 · p.8 #13 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


jhapeman wrote:
Useless math though. You don't have to be a millionaire to afford this camera. You also don't know what Sony's sales goals for a model like this are. Data on working photographers and millionaires are just data points in a vacuum without more relevant information.


You mentioned disposable cash of hobbyists as a factor in the purchase of this camera, so it's not clear to me why you believe the relative wealth of a nation of non-pros/hobbyists vs photographers is not relevant to the discussion. You're right that you don't have to be a millionaire to afford this camera - which argues for my point, that money is not a significant barrier to hobbyists ownership of this camera because if there are 24.5 millionaires consider how many more non-millionaire hobbyists there are.



Apr 17, 2024 at 10:12 AM
GMPhotography
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p.8 #14 · p.8 #14 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


My point in this whole thread is not to hate this thing this is the future hopefully coming prices will drop and bodies go up in abilities. I was there at the start of digital back in 1991 and it has grown so much since than. You don't have to buy it but understand it as the key of what the future may hold for us.

This is exciting stuff



Apr 17, 2024 at 10:15 AM
jhapeman
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p.8 #15 · p.8 #15 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


A lot of this reminds me of discussions around computer hardware or things like the newest iPhones--people (especially enthusiasts) are disappointed with the new releases--almost always. The reality is that manufacturers are not targeting everyone with every release. If you don't have an A1 and are say using an older A7III or an A9 the A9III can be a very compelling purchase right now. Same if you're say a Canon shooter looking to go to Sony and you use the 1Dx MarkIII or an R3.

If you've got an A1 and you want an upgrade...the best thing for you will to wait for an A1II. I got the A9III because it can do things for my style of photography that an A1 can't do right now. But as others have mentioned here, the naysayers are a bit over the top on what this camera can and can't do. In my real world use it turns out that the very slight noise difference is inconsequential, and for many more cases than I realized, I don't really need the cropping capabilities the extra megapixels of the A1 give you.

Just because it's not the right camera for you, or you can't justify the cost does not mean in any way it's not perfect for someone else in their situation.



Apr 17, 2024 at 10:20 AM
jhapeman
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p.8 #16 · p.8 #16 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


GMPhotography wrote:
My point in this whole thread is not to hate this thing this is the future hopefully coming prices will drop and bodies go up in abilities. I was there at the start of digital back in 1991 and it has grown so much since than. You don't have to buy it but understand it as the key of what the future may hold for us.

This is exciting stuff


This is where I'm coming from too. I started messing around with digital imaging about 1993 and those were...interesting times, and stuff was *crazy* expensive compared to today. I am confident that in a decade we'll almost all be using global shutter cameras and the advantages they bring will be taken for granted. This is just the first step in that direction in a prosumer MILC and a pretty darned amazing first step at that.

No need to hate on it if it doesn't fit your use case or budget. It's an amazing tool for many tasks, and the only one that can be reliably used for many cases. There are better tools for other tasks, and better tools for general-all-around shooting. So be it. That's always been the case.



Apr 17, 2024 at 10:24 AM
snapsy
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p.8 #17 · p.8 #17 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


I don't think there's much hate for the A9 III, not around here at least. There's certainly some open debate on whether the camera's unique features and compromises warrant its cost vs the available alternatives but I wouldn't classify that as hate.


Apr 17, 2024 at 10:32 AM
GMPhotography
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p.8 #18 · p.8 #18 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


Well some of its abilities are earth shattering the quote from someone was the LED banding is gone for good is priceless as I fight it on those big runway shows even though I get by with the A7RV it be nice never to not think about the hassle I go through to solve it. In my book anything that can solve issues when shooting frees up the mind and lets you create even better. Those type of solutions are priceless. I have done this a long time and the fight to solve issues has been a big task. Im good at it but anything that can solve stuff is a big deal when your neck is on the line. The tiger sync speed or really limitless sync speed is a major big deal to fashion , wedding shooters and so on or anyone that shoots outside and needs fill light is also a very big deal. That's probably even bigger than the banding issue from LED but LED is going to get worse as more arenas and venues will update there lighting and for good reason . They are cheaper, lighter , more cost effective energy wise and ability to change color temp as they run with no heat . That's a big deal for those places and saves money to operate. So that issue may get worse for us.

We have not even brought up its sheer FPS speed and the big feature sets involved. A lot more as we go down the road



Apr 17, 2024 at 10:43 AM
jhapeman
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p.8 #19 · p.8 #19 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


snapsy wrote:
I don't think there's much hate for the A9 III, not around here at least. There's certainly some open debate on whether the camera's unique features and compromises warrant its cost vs the available alternatives but I wouldn't classify that as hate.


Hmmm, there's definitely some very hostile commentary in this thread alone.

Cost is relative though. For fun I went back and looked at the launch price in the past of some pro bodies that broke new ground and adjusted for inflation:

Canon 1D Mark II, 2004: $4500; that would be $7350 today
Canon 1Ds Mark II, 2004: an eye watering $8000 at launch, that would be $13,000 today

Nikon D3, 2007: $4999, that would be $7400 today

At all of those times there were also other options available for a lot less that could do much of what those cameras could. Things really aren't all that different today--the latest cutting edge technology comes at a price--and adjust for inflation, that price is actually down today (which makes sense). The capabilities we get today are incredible compared to the past. That makes some of the gaps between the best of the best and everything else smaller--but it doesn't change the economics of developing those capabilities and what must be done to recoup those costs.




Apr 17, 2024 at 10:57 AM
snapsy
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p.8 #20 · p.8 #20 · Is the Sony A9iii hype fading away?


jhapeman wrote:
Hmmm, there's definitely some very hostile commentary in this thread alone.

Cost is relative though. For fun I went back and looked at the launch price in the past of some pro bodies that broke new ground and adjusted for inflation:

Canon 1D Mark II, 2004: $4500; that would be $7350 today
Canon 1Ds Mark II, 2004: and eye watering $8000 at launch, that would be $13,000 today

Nikon D3, 2007: $4999, that would be $7400 today

At all of those times there were also other options available for a lot less that could do much of what those cameras could. Things really aren't all
...Show more

The Canon 1DM2 had pro AF and shot at 8.5fps in 2004 - what options were available for a lot less? The Nikon D2x shot at 8fps in the same year, and was close in price to the 1DM2.

The D3 was Nikon's first FF DSLR. It offered 2.4x more light collection than their DX cameras. What option was available for a lot less?



Apr 17, 2024 at 11:27 AM
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