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Super telephoto lens rumors?

  
 
alundeb
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


crisdesign wrote:
the nikon alternative is the z8+z600 f4 with 1.4 teleconverter – a much better setup indeeed



[irony]
But the Nikon setup does not feature an upgradable teleconverter. The Nikon forum is flooded with people not wanting to buy the lens because they fear that the teleconverter will be outperformed in 20 years.
[/irony]

There is a possibility to create a new niche. The clever move of reducing the max aperture of 1/3 stop, combined with integrated teleconverters. Imagine having a 500/4.5 and 600/4.5 with integrated teleconverters. That would really be competitive in the higher end. Only surpassed by a 200-500 f/4 zoom for the badass no compromise crowd.



Apr 14, 2024 at 03:18 AM
crisdesign
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


The problem is that canon unless forced never gives you anything, if it wasn’t for sony canon would still selling DSLR and come up with “innovative solutions” for microfocus adjustments.

It’s a shame because if they want they can come up with amazing cameras and lenses but as soon they get a honerun they take the foot off the gas.

I saw many wildlife influencers shooting canon for years now trying nikon stuff but unfortunately wildlife photography is a niche and for things like wedding and photojournalism canon offering is still very good so I don’t expect canon to match nikon in that area any tine soon




Apr 14, 2024 at 08:16 AM
alundeb
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · Super telephoto lens rumors?




crisdesign wrote:
if it wasn’t for sony canon would still selling DSLR and come up with “innovative solutions” for microfocus adjustments.


Maybe. Canon had DSLR video with AF before Sony launched their first mirrorless (Nex), and they launched Dual Pixel AF at the same time as Sony launched A7 with Phase Detect AF.



Apr 14, 2024 at 09:08 AM
garyvot
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · Super telephoto lens rumors?




crisdesign wrote:
The problem is that canon unless forced never gives you anything


That is a bit hyperbolic, but leaving brand allegiance aside I would argue this is broadly true of every market leader everywhere. That's why competition is good.

I think it is fair to say that each of the three major ILC manufacturers is delivering unique and innovative products in various parts of their portfolios.

Nikon has amazingly compact PF lenses and long primes with built-in teleconverters, whereas Cannon has groundbreaking high speed zoom lenses and a new lens line designed specifically for hybrid shooters.

Both of these product focuses are valuable though maybe for different audiences.



Apr 14, 2024 at 09:30 AM
AmbientMike
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


Canon Rf 800/5.6 is over 3 lbs lighter than the 10lb Nikon 800/5.6 some are apparently still using over the 800pf. So the Canon is not so embarrassing, after all

Canon has more super telephotos than anyone else. Led with the 1st <7lb 600/4, lighter 100-500 vs the 200-600 and 200-500 and then came out going to 800mm on their zoom. Rhe Rf 100-400 is probably the lightest 100-400 available, and you might not like f/11, but it looks pretty usable especially on ff. And the competition on under 3lb 800mm (the 600/11 is closer to 2lbs IIRC) is pretty thin.

So i don't buy into arguments that Canon isn't competing or innovating. They are.




Apr 14, 2024 at 10:51 AM
Z250SA
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


garyvot wrote:
That is a bit hyperbolic, but leaving brand allegiance aside I would argue this is broadly true of every market leader everywhere. That's why competition is good.

I think it is fair to say that each of the three major ILC manufacturers is delivering unique and innovative products in various parts of their portfolios.

Nikon has amazingly compact PF lenses and long primes with built-in teleconverters, whereas Cannon has groundbreaking high speed zoom lenses and a new lens line designed specifically for hybrid shooters.

Both of these product focuses are valuable though maybe for different audiences.


Agreed!

May I add the f/11 600 and 800mm to the list. Not super fast but super cheap and not more OT than Sonykon in a Canon forum, all the cheap line RF lenses in general. The RF28, 24-105 STM and 24-240 STM are my main goto lenses now, with the ZEs for any really critical work. With the high resolution of the R5 and especially the R7 I have found myself limited by the temp shimmer very often. No lens at any price point would add to the sharpness of these images. So I am super happy with Canons choice of lenses this far. But in small bursts of empathy I can feel the pain of those who suffer from the no show parts of the lineup.

Of course any addition of superb lenses, especially at the long end is exciting and accelerates the peristaltics on the forums to the horror or amusement, depending on view.




Apr 14, 2024 at 11:07 AM
Imagemaster
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


crisdesign wrote:
......unfortunately wildlife photography is a niche and for things like wedding and photojournalism .........


What makes wildlife photography any more of a niche than wedding and photojournalism?



Apr 14, 2024 at 11:31 AM
John330
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


Imagemaster wrote:
What makes wildlife photography any more of a niche than wedding and photojournalism?


Well, that's easy; for most of us birders it's a hobby. The money goes one way, out of my account and direct to Japan.

And until Sonykon comes out with a 2lb 600 2.8 I'm sticking with Canon.



Apr 14, 2024 at 12:09 PM
JWilsonphoto
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


jedibrain wrote:
Just a whole lot of radio silence from Canon. Seems like they've locked down the rumor mill pretty good.

The RF 600F/4 is already pretty light an optically excellent. Don't think you'll see a new one of those for a while though.

Brian


You are exactly right, even the Canon reps are miffed over the lack of communication this year.



Apr 14, 2024 at 12:46 PM
thedutt
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


I think those are just lens watchers and gear heads. Every single serious wildlife photog I know on nikon side has it, and every one of us on the canon/ sony side would gladly have paid a premium to have it. Having a build in TC makes a huge difference in the field.



alundeb wrote:
[irony]
But the Nikon setup does not feature an upgradable teleconverter. The Nikon forum is flooded with people not wanting to buy the lens because they fear that the teleconverter will be outperformed in 20 years.
[/irony]

There is a possibility to create a new niche. The clever move of reducing the max aperture of 1/3 stop, combined with integrated teleconverters. Imagine having a 500/4.5 and 600/4.5 with integrated teleconverters. That would really be competitive in the higher end. Only surpassed by a 200-500 f/4 zoom for the badass no compromise crowd.





Apr 14, 2024 at 12:57 PM
 


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ivancook
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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


JWilsonphoto wrote:
You are exactly right, even the Canon reps are miffed over the lack of communication this year.


Yeah, I got impatient and switched. I'm sure others are too. I really enjoyed the R5/R3 and 100-500, but so far the Z8's been great too. You really can't go wrong with either one these days. It all comes down to which glass you want/need and which experience you prefer.



Apr 14, 2024 at 12:58 PM
Imagemaster
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p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


John330 wrote:
Well, that's easy; for most of us birders it's a hobby.


And wedding and photojournalism photography are niches that do it for money.



Apr 14, 2024 at 01:12 PM
alundeb
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p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · Super telephoto lens rumors?




thedutt wrote:
I think those are just lens watchers and gear heads. Every single serious wildlife photog I know on nikon side has it, and every one of us on the canon/ sony side would gladly have paid a premium to have it. Having a build in TC makes a huge difference in the field.



I was kidding, sorry. Nobody has mentioned it. Your comment makes sense anyway.



Apr 14, 2024 at 01:50 PM
garyvot
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p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


Who knows, maybe a switchable TC will be a feature the rumored 200-500 f/4. If so, that might quiet some of the criticism.

To my knowledge, there's nothing to suggest this, but just because it's not present on the 100-300 may not necessarily mean anything. You can make the argument that, as the successor to the EF 200-400, a switchable TC should be expected in this lens.

However, either way I am guessing this will be a 7+ pound lens and probably 12K USD, so it won't do much to compete with the PF lenses.

That said, Canon might justifiably feel that they have the budget wildlife market covered with the 100-400, 100-500, the DO STMs, and now the 200-800.



Apr 14, 2024 at 04:31 PM
jcolwell
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p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


garyvot wrote:
... just because it's not present on the 100-300 may not necessarily mean anything.


For sure. I've owned both models of the Sigma EX 120-300/2.8, and two copies of the EF 300/2.8L IS. I'd be much more comfortable having a built-in extender on a longer lens, like a 200-500mm f/4 or 500mm f/6.3, than on a 100-300/2.8 or 300/2.8. I used these lenses for shooting indoor performance and sports, and a longer lens would not be appreciated, there.



Apr 14, 2024 at 04:52 PM
AmbientMike
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p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


Every major brand has something different that nobody else has. Canon has 200-800, 100-500, lightweight 600/11 & 800/11, and a 1.5 lbs 100-400 that goes to 1:2 at the long end. Plus the 1200/8

The pf's don t look as different and appealing as they once did. I'm sure they're fine if you already use Nikon though



Apr 14, 2024 at 06:47 PM
ivancook
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p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


AmbientMike wrote:
Every major brand has something different that nobody else has. Canon has 200-800, 100-500, lightweight 600/11 & 800/11, and a 1.5 lbs 100-400 that goes to 1:2 at the long end. Plus the 1200/8

The pf's don t look as different and appealing as they once did. I'm sure they're fine if you already use Nikon though


So true. We're in a golden age I think and there's something for everyone.



Apr 14, 2024 at 07:58 PM
middlerockies
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p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


crisdesign wrote:
The problem is that canon unless forced never gives you anything, if it wasn’t for sony canon would still selling DSLR and come up with “innovative solutions” for microfocus adjustments.

It’s a shame because if they want they can come up with amazing cameras and lenses but as soon they get a honerun they take the foot off the gas.


I've shot with all brands at this point and consider myself brand agnostic. This is how I feel about Canon, as well. Canon innovates when it needs to, then takes the foot off the gas.

To their credit, and also my frustration, they're a company that knows their numbers and prefers to capture the lower end in mass over putting out fantastic products that they're capable of, which they'd only sell a few of. Consequently, we occasionally get a product that the Marketing department loves, like 8K, and they'll be first to market with that, but then we've got looooooooooooong periods of time where they milk that reputation and wind up lagging everyone else for much longer.

We all have different experiences with each brand because we shoot different genres and want different things, but I learned a long time ago never to wait around and hope Canon sees it my way. They're great business people, they know the math and their market, and unfortunately I just don't seem to fit in it most of the time. I'm glad they exist, though, and it's great for competition.



Apr 14, 2024 at 08:37 PM
rscheffler
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p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


Sony's primary advantage is their lead in semiconductors which is seen in their higher end sensors. They also have some very nice lenses for the FE system. But IMO in the super-tele space they're more stagnant than Canon. 400/2.8 and 600/4 rehashes of what have been available for decades, but with modern weight reduction. The 300/2.8 is cool, but only if you want a prime, and only just came out ~10 years into the FE system. Currently Nikon seems to be doing the best with super-tele variety across a range of price points that aren't just budget models or high-end. But I don't buy that Canon isn't giving us anything interesting. The problem is they're probably not giving you what you specifically want. In my case, I love some of their RF 'innovations' such as the 28-70/2, 100-300/2.8, the compact 70-200s, 28/2.8 pancake, 16/2.8 semi-pancake (despite its optical compromises), 24-105/2.8Z and the capabilities they're able to squeeze out of ancient FSI sensor tech, such as considerably better rolling shutter performance than Sony non-stacked sensors. But for sure, I'm not getting everything I want from Canon either. Still waiting on a 70-135/2 to pair with the 28-70...

Considering the size of Canon, they definitely cannot just rely on the upper end enthusiast/pro market to sustain their photo/video division. And I don't think they're going to become something like Leica, which would certainly be unpopular with many considering how much more expensive the equipment would become than it already is now.



Apr 14, 2024 at 10:16 PM
nmerc_photos
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p.7 #20 · p.7 #20 · Super telephoto lens rumors?


AmbientMike wrote:
Canon Rf 800/5.6 is over 3 lbs lighter than the 10lb Nikon 800/5.6 some are apparently still using over the 800pf. So the Canon is not so embarrassing, after all

Canon has more super telephotos than anyone else. Led with the 1st <7lb 600/4, lighter 100-500 vs the 200-600 and 200-500 and then came out going to 800mm on their zoom. Rhe Rf 100-400 is probably the lightest 100-400 available, and you might not like f/11, but it looks pretty usable especially on ff. And the competition on under 3lb 800mm (the 600/11 is closer to 2lbs IIRC) is pretty
...Show more

As everyone has already said, the RF 800 F5.6 is garbage when considering price to performance. You need to stop picking the worst parts of Canon's lineup and trying to use them in your arguments lol.

You can't argue about the RF 800/5.6 being so much lighter, when the IQ is so much lesser. It would be one thing if the two lenses were comparable in IQ - but they're not.

Canon's wildlife offerings are embarrassing currently. Full stop. No ifs, ands, or butts.

Based on your responses, I'm guessing you've never used many of the lenses and bodies that you're trying to discuss. Which is pretty silly.

Canon only has "more super telephotos than anyone else" if you include decades of old lenses that nobody wants to use. People only use them if they don't have a choice.

the RF 100-500 and RF 200-800 are the only innovations Canon has shown for wildlife in a long time

Edited on Apr 15, 2024 at 10:52 AM · View previous versions



Apr 15, 2024 at 08:22 AM
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