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Flourite Crystal

  
 
runamuck
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Flourite Crystal


I put it on a cheap LED fashlight.




Fluorite crystal

  NIKON D7200    40mm    f/5.0    1/125s    200 ISO    0.0 EV  




Mar 14, 2024 at 07:45 PM
1bwana1
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Flourite Crystal


What are you doing with that crystal? Did you dig it up?


Mar 14, 2024 at 08:57 PM
Danpbphoto
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Flourite Crystal


I have "bookends" made of this mineral/rock and also of a few other stones. Your post gave me a great idea! Thanks!
Beautiful colors!
Dan



Mar 15, 2024 at 10:07 AM
runamuck
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Flourite Crystal


1bwana1 wrote:
What are you doing with that crystal? Did you dig it up?


Found them on Jeff's place. I just like rocks. It has been sitting on my desk for months and finally thought to get a pic of the translucence. I have 4 or 5 and this was the most photogenic. It is the same fluorite used as a lens coating. Ordianary room light it is a nondescript blue-gray-greenish rock. As usual, lighting makes all the difference.





ordinary room/lamp lighting




Mar 16, 2024 at 02:08 PM
1bwana1
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Flourite Crystal


runamuck wrote:
Found them on Jeff's place. I just like rocks. It has been sitting on my desk for months and finally thought to get a pic of the translucence. I have 4 or 5 and this was the most photogenic. It is the same fluorite used as a lens coating. Ordianary room light it is a nondescript blue-gray-greenish rock. As usual, lighting makes all the difference.


I also like rocks and collect them.

I think that there are Fluorite lenses cut from the mineral Fluorite, with the same molecular structure and optical characteristics as the natural mineral. I am not sure whether they use a synthesised version or mined version. The chemical composition of Fluorite is CaF2. Often called Fluorspar.

I think the Fluorine Coatings contain the element Fluorine not the mineral Fluorite. These are nano coating and very different is structure from the mineral. One interesting thing is that the element Fluorine is a gas at room temperature.



Mar 16, 2024 at 08:47 PM
sjms
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Flourite Crystal


https://optron.canon/en/domain/fluorite/process.html

https://nikonrumors.com/2014/12/18/direrence-between-nikons-fluorite-lens-and-fluorine-coating.aspx/



Mar 16, 2024 at 09:00 PM
runamuck
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Flourite Crystal


1bwana1 wrote:
I also like rocks and collect them.

I think that there are Fluorite lenses cut from the mineral Fluorite, with the same molecular structure and optical characteristics as the natural mineral. I am not sure whether they use a synthesised version or mined version. The chemical composition of Fluorite is CaF2. Often called Fluorspar.

I think the Fluorine Coatings contain the element Fluorine not the mineral Fluorite. These are nano coating and very different is structure from the mineral. One interesting thing is that the element Fluorine is a gas at room temperature.


From what I have read, Canon grows their own crystals to ensure purity. Their lenses are white because heat can affect fluorite lenses.



Mar 17, 2024 at 04:10 PM
runamuck
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Flourite Crystal


sjms wrote:
https://optron.canon/en/domain/fluorite/process.html

https://nikonrumors.com/2014/12/18/direrence-between-nikons-fluorite-lens-and-fluorine-coating.aspx/


Fluorite is the solid form and fluorine is the gaseous form. Thanks for the clarification.

They are the same, only different.



Mar 17, 2024 at 04:15 PM
runamuck
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Flourite Crystal


Looking at what I have I found one with an opaque deep purple vein. I guess I got lucky with this one. The others are not nearly as photogenic and the only one with green in it.


Mar 17, 2024 at 04:19 PM
1bwana1
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Flourite Crystal


runamuck wrote:
Fluorite is the solid form and fluorine is the gaseous form. Thanks for the clarification.

They are the same, only different.


No, not the same and very different. Florite is a proper mineral It has a chemical composition which is a combination of different elements. This gives it properties like hardness, crystal form, and cleavage(s).

Fluorine is a pure, single element. You can extract Fluorine from Fluorite because it is one of the elements contained in Fluorite. The color of Fluorite the mineral is caused by trace elements of contaminants in the Fluorite structure that change its absorption spectrum.

The way I understand it is that lens makers start with high grade Fluorspar (a mineral), with as few color inducing trace elements as possible. They then grind it up so thy can clean up any trace elements, and reconstitute a Fluorite mineral that is pure colorless, and has a structure free of defects. I don't think you could find Fluorite in a natural occurrence within tolerance for this application. Keep in mind that Fluorite the mineral is very soft, very brittle, and would be unsuitable for anything but an internal lens. It would not survive exposure to the environment, or any kind of touching without damage.

On the other hand, Fluorine the element is used to enhance the durability of lenses and is used on front element for just that purpose.

Edited on Mar 17, 2024 at 06:36 PM · View previous versions



Mar 17, 2024 at 05:36 PM
 


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KankRat
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Flourite Crystal


Now I have to buy one next time I am at the rock shop.
If you hit it with the de-fringe tool in post does it turn all white again? :-)



Mar 17, 2024 at 06:17 PM
1bwana1
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Flourite Crystal


runamuck wrote:
Looking at what I have I found one with an opaque deep purple vein. I guess I got lucky with this one. The others are not nearly as photogenic and the only one with green in it.


Purple is probably the most common color, followed by green. But it comes in some pretty amazing colors.

https://www.geologypage.com/2018/02/why-does-fluorite-have-different-colors.html



Mar 17, 2024 at 06:38 PM
wfektar
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Flourite Crystal




1bwana is right, fluorine to fluorite is the same as chlorine gas is to table salt: a gaseous element to a mineral compound. Fluorite is CaF2.

The color of Fluorite the mineral is caused by trace elements of contaminants in the Fluorite structure that change its absorption spectrum.

The way I understand it is that lens makers start with high grade Fluorspar (a mineral), with as few color inducing trace elements as possible. They then grind it up so thy can clean up any trace elements, and reconstitute a Fluorite mineral that is pure colorless, and has a structure free of defects. I don't think you could find Fluorite in a natural occurrence within tolerance for this application. Keep in mind that Fluorite the mineral is very soft, very brittle, and would be unsuitable for anything but an internal lens. It would not survive exposure to the environment, or any kind of touching without damage.

On the other hand, Fluorine the element is used to enhance the durability of lenses and is used on front element for just that purpose.


This part is mostly right. Impurities can lend color to fluorite, though usually the bigger problem is fluorescence (so called because the phenomenon was first noted in fluorite). Fluorite's colors arise primarily from crystal defects ("f-centers") which is why it's so important to anneal the material.

As for coatings, nobody uses fluorine as a coating. It's a gas, for starters. But there have been many many fluorine-based coatings and they go a LONG way back, starting with MgF2. I haven't been following the field very closely recently but suspect the new hydrophobic/oleophobic fluorine based coatings are some sort of fluorosilane (fluorinated silicon compounds).



Mar 17, 2024 at 10:59 PM
shuttersmasher
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Flourite Crystal


It is hard to believe that the artificial CaF2 cousin is actually used in high end lenses


Mar 18, 2024 at 01:58 PM
1bwana1
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Flourite Crystal


shuttersmasher wrote:
It is hard to believe that the artificial CaF2 cousin is actually used in high end lenses


I think that lab crown crystals will become commonplace in all kinds of applications. I expect we will see Lab Grown Diamond lenses in the not too distant future. I am partners in a Lab Grown Diamond Company, and the speed with which we are making advances is incredible. We are now growing Diamonds faster. larger, and less expensively than I ever thought possible. I know of some labs growing clean white rough in excess of 25mm these days. I have heard that satellite cameras already using this technology for military applications. Diamond lenses are also being used in industrial applications.


https://www.diamond-materials.com/en/products/threedimensional-diamond-products/lenses/



Mar 18, 2024 at 05:20 PM
wfektar
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Flourite Crystal


One optical property about diamond: its optical dispersion is very high. That's really valuable for gemstone purposes (it gives diamond its high brilliance) but really not for imaging purposes (think massive CA). The reason fluorite is a good choice for lenses is that its dispersion is low.


Mar 19, 2024 at 12:35 AM
1bwana1
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Flourite Crystal


wfektar wrote:
One optical property about diamond: its optical dispersion is very high. That's really valuable for gemstone purposes (it gives diamond its high brilliance) but really not for imaging purposes (think massive CA). The reason fluorite is a good choice for lenses is that its dispersion is low.



You are of course correct about the dispersion so would be the wrong choice for a solid lens. I was more thinking of using the CVD process to apply a molecular level thickness for durability purpose. It is also possible that high dispersion elements property shaped can help correct for aberration by bending the different frequencies to converge at a calculated place.

Another negative I have thought about may be Diamonds proclivity to attract grease. It is so strong that back in the day it was used as parting of the mining and sorting process of diamonds.

In gemstones it is the high refractive index that provides Diamond's brilliance, not dispersion. It is dispersion that provides it's "fire". in diamonds. The difference in dispersion is one attribute that we use to visually differentiate Diamond's from simulants. as it has a particular character and degree about it that is visible.


Edited on Mar 19, 2024 at 12:53 PM · View previous versions



Mar 19, 2024 at 07:21 AM
shuttersmasher
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Flourite Crystal


1bwana1 wrote:
I think that lab crown crystals will become commonplace in all kinds of applications. I expect we will see Lab Grown Diamond lenses in the not too distant future. I am partners in a Lab Grown Diamond Company, and the speed with which we are making advances is incredible. We are now growing Diamonds faster. larger, and less expensively than I ever thought possible. I know of some labs growing clean white rough in excess of 25mm these days. I have heard that satellite cameras already using this technology for military applications. Diamond lenses are also being used in
...Show more

Diamond lenses, that sounds amazing. Thank you very much for sharing the future of lenses



Mar 19, 2024 at 12:38 PM
1bwana1
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Flourite Crystal


shuttersmasher wrote:
Diamond lenses, that sounds amazing. Thank you very much for sharing the future of lenses


We are already using a number of lab grown minerals like Quartz for electronics, Corundom (Sapphire and Ruby), and different Garnets to make lenses for different purposes like laser lenses of certain frequencies, and hardened lenses (watch crystals) for products, and other military applications. This will only get more broadly applied as our technology gets better.

Here is a nice paper on using CVD Diamond on optical glass.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0257897223000622



Mar 19, 2024 at 01:02 PM







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