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Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

  
 
biggles2002
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p.28 #1 · p.28 #1 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


Pre-capture mode on canon ....someone sad it uses the video lanes on sensor output thats why you have to extract the "photos/frames" from the "videostream" .....so therefor 12 bits and not 14


Jul 10, 2024 at 10:40 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.28 #2 · p.28 #2 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


biggles2002 wrote:
Pre-capture mode on canon ....someone sad it uses the video lanes on sensor output thats why you have to extract the "photos/frames" from the "videostream" .....so therefor 12 bits and not 14


That is consistent with my testing of my r8 achieving 200 pictures before buffer is filled when light is good, so it sounds right. And it is consistent with the "one file / need to extract" iimplementation.

I suspect that there is using video and a more lossy compression, to get pre burst issue because the r8 in electronic (12bit, 40fps) still mode (60max) cannot get to 200 max pictures in good light, whereas pre burst can. Even R8 craw/12bit electronic only achieved 100 in burst so the video compression must be more compressed than stills.

Here is a good discussion of bit rate, multi frame compression, codec and all of which influences mb/s and file sizes.


It suggests to me that Canon r8 is using video for pre burst and uses a codec/settings that are more favourable (more lossy, 8bit ?, inter frame compression?, HEVC) setting for pre burst. eg the outcome is more lossy than electronic shutter mode. Maybe at high iso its not a big deal but it should be at low iso.




Jul 10, 2024 at 10:45 AM
biggles2002
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p.28 #3 · p.28 #3 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


Scott Stoness wrote:
That is consistent with my testing of my r8 achieving 200 pictures before buffer is filled when light is good, so it sounds right. And it is consistent with the "one file / need to extract" iimplementation.

I suspect that there is some kind of internal video lane better than still lane physical connections [of video is more compressed], to get pre burst issue because the r8 in electronic (12bit, 40fps) still mode (60max) cannot get to 200 max pictures in good light, whereas pre burst can. [although its possible that they did not implement pre burst the same
...Show more

I've used my R5 to do 8k 30p video with fast shutterspeed (appropriate to photo situation) to capture birds taking off..... but in video the AF is too slow so pretty useless. hopefully the mark2 with stacked sensor is faster and can work in this senario



Jul 10, 2024 at 11:22 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.28 #4 · p.28 #4 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


biggles2002 wrote:
I've used my R5 to do 8k 30p video with fast shutterspeed (appropriate to photo situation) to capture birds taking off..... but in video the AF is too slow so pretty useless. hopefully the mark2 with stacked sensor is faster and can work in this senario


The R8 pre capture implementation canon notes suggest it might work

-RAW images captured are saved in a single file (roll). These files have a .CR3 file extension.
-Picture Style, white balance, and Auto Lighting Optimizer settings configured for the first shot also apply to the next shots.
-The camera does not beep as you are shooting.
- [Shooting: RAW burst mode] reverts to [Disable] when the power switch is set to Power off.

It does not say af is impaired



Edited on Jul 10, 2024 at 03:18 PM · View previous versions



Jul 10, 2024 at 01:35 PM
robert_in_ca
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p.28 #5 · p.28 #5 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


I guess we’ll find out soon enough.







Jul 10, 2024 at 02:13 PM
RoamingScott
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p.28 #6 · p.28 #6 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


I just know you guys can add another 10 pages to this thread in a week, I'm rooting for you!


Jul 10, 2024 at 02:26 PM
artsupreme
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p.28 #7 · p.28 #7 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


RoamingScott wrote:
I just know you guys can add another 10 pages to this thread in a week, I'm rooting for you!


How about 8 more pages for the over/under? Place your bets. I'll take the under.



Jul 10, 2024 at 04:50 PM
arbitrage
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p.28 #8 · p.28 #8 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


Scott Stoness wrote:
I was curious - A9III

https://



Pros vs current R8/R7/R10 implementation [not implemented in r5]:
-Can use with various fps settings
-Can set precapture times up to 1second
-indicates pretty clearly pre and post shutter - this is minor, the r8 does it too but visually without as much precision
-culling nightmare - same as R8 but Sony can reduce time to say 0.2s from 0.5s which is better
-can take some pictures while buffer is cleared - R8 takes pictures but no pre buffer until clear when I tried it

Cons vs R8 implementation:
-uses battery life up - may be similar to r8
-screen dims
...Show more

To address a few of those points...

*Battery is for sure going to drain on any camera doing pre-capture...it is constantly writing and deleting from buffer and performing AF.

*I never noticed the EVF dim on the A9III but maybe it did as I was shooting outside in good light so may not have noticed

*A9III doesn't have any auto-off for the precapture. I assigned pre-capture on/off toggle to a custom button so I could just tap that button (I actually used joystick push) and it would be active, tap again and it was turned off. No menu diving involved.

*No bit drops on the A9III.

A few other notes about A9III pre-capture implementation:

A9III has a nice vertical bar on the left side in the EVF that shows how much of the buffer has been drained by the precapture being active depending on your FPS and pre-capture duration.

I found for birds 0.3s was ideal...0.2s can work and 0.4s was sometimes better. But most of the time 0.3s, set it and forget it. With 0.3s for a bird launching I'd always get a couple static frames of it still sitting there and then all the launch shots.



Jul 10, 2024 at 05:17 PM
ruralmontanan
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p.28 #9 · p.28 #9 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


middlerockies wrote:
Is it just me or has the Canon Rumors site become complete garbage over the last few years? That guy has serious issues; every time I check the site now the comments are just loaded with him going off on people. Not sure why I visit anymore, TBH. It’s been useless for rumors, which is his actual business, I thought.


Craig (the site owner) has screwed over a lot of people over the years. Various scams and lies and coverups. He'll put stuff out and delete it...then hide comments of anyone mentioning it. He curates his forums so they're an echo chamber and has been caught with many accounts himself...talking to himself.

As others mentioned Nokishita was the main source for most of these sites and now that he's gone dark they're flailing around sharing random tips they get from people guessing just like you and me. We will find out the real camera details in a week!



Jul 10, 2024 at 06:00 PM
rscheffler
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p.28 #10 · p.28 #10 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


arbitrage wrote:
To address a few of those points...

*Battery is for sure going to drain on any camera doing pre-capture...it is constantly writing and deleting from buffer and performing AF.

*I never noticed the EVF dim on the A9III but maybe it did as I was shooting outside in good light so may not have noticed

*A9III doesn't have any auto-off for the precapture. I assigned pre-capture on/off toggle to a custom button so I could just tap that button (I actually used joystick push) and it would be active, tap again and it was turned off. No menu diving involved.

*No bit drops on
...Show more

Does Sony package the images from a burst in a proprietary container that cannot be accessed by third party software? This is the primary reason I don't use 'raw burst' with my R6II. The other reason, as mentioned, is that once you start a sequence, the camera is locked out from shooting another one until the buffer is completely clear of the first burst. For things like birds launching, this might not be a big deal because it only happens once within a few seconds. For sports situations you might have anticipated a play incorrectly and started a burst, but half a second later the actual play you expected happened. Yet you let off the shutter release too soon because of the aborted first attempt and are now left waiting for the buffer to clear while watching the play you wanted to capture. Kind of reminds me of early digital cameras like the D30 (the one way before the 30D), which I think locked you out after a sequence until the buffer cleared. Don't want to go back to that experience. It's already bad enough having only 2.5-3 seconds of buffer depth at 40fps and CRAW. But then it's also my fault for buying a prosumer camera and not the R3 a couple years ago... (no real regrets not getting the R3, just mid-tier model annoyances from time to time).




Jul 10, 2024 at 06:55 PM
 


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arbitrage
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p.28 #11 · p.28 #11 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


rscheffler wrote:
Does Sony package the images from a burst in a proprietary container that cannot be accessed by third party software? This is the primary reason I don't use 'raw burst' with my R6II. The other reason, as mentioned, is that once you start a sequence, the camera is locked out from shooting another one until the buffer is completely clear of the first burst. For things like birds launching, this might not be a big deal because it only happens once within a few seconds. For sports situations you might have anticipated a play incorrectly and started a burst, but
...Show more

No proprietary container. Just saves the RAW files like it would if you weren't using pre-capture.
Sony doesn't lock you out, as long as there is some room in the buffer it will let you shoot even if it is at a reduced FPS.
Really with the A9III the only limitation to the implementation of pre-capture is that there is a buffer so depending on your settings you can run into trouble with slowing FPS.
Shooting at 120FPS was only good for very specific situations because the buffer was full in a second or two. But I started using pre-capture on all the time at 30FPS...there I could pretty much shoot like normal but was catching a bunch of shots my reaction time would have had me miss without it.
Even just quickly raising the camera to my eye to get on an unexpected BIF, I always wait to see that AF is engaged and tracking and then fire. With the no pre-capture that would always result in a few missed shots. With the pre-capture I'd still hit the shutter when I saw the AF was engaged but got a few shots that happened before I could react. It was really game changing.
I actually found I was accumulating less shots on the card because I could just react after I knew something cool had actually happened. Like tracking an osprey diving I really am looking for that talons on water...well normally I fire most of the dive, now I just hit the shutter once I saw it hit the water. Same with a swallow in flight...I have a million swallow in flight shots so the only shots I really try for anymore is bug in the mouth shots, normally with swallow I have to keep firing as it approaches and hope to snag the moment it darts in a different direction and goes for a bug. Now I can just keep AF active, tracking it without firing and only fire once I see the change in direction.
Game changing for my type of shooting...can't wait to have this feature in an A1II (the 24MP of the A9III was just too much of a step back after many years at 45+ MP so I didn't end up buying my own copy).



Jul 10, 2024 at 08:04 PM
koenkooi
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p.28 #12 · p.28 #12 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


rscheffler wrote:
Does Sony package the images from a burst in a proprietary container that cannot be accessed by third party software? [...]


The dnglab tool can extra the frames, but will save them as un-demosaiced DNGs, not as CR3s. I tried it with a 'roll' from my R8, it extracted the files and both LR and DxO could read them. The viewable area metadata was set incorrectly though, the edges included the calibration pixels. I'll see if I can work up some motivation to submit a proper, useful bugreport about that.

See https://github.com/dnglab/dnglab for more details.

Anyway, even with the dnglab tool it's a massive time sink, so I hope future bodies get a more user friendly pre-capture mode.



Jul 11, 2024 at 05:27 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.28 #13 · p.28 #13 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-r5-mark-ii-unconfirmed-specifications/ hmmm

[- maybe not new Jun 10th but new to Northrup - summary]

New Canon EOS R5 Mark II Information (Unconfirmed) from Canon Rumours):

-No blackout during continuous shooting
-A better implemented pixel-shift high resolution mode (no details)
-“Some” illumination with the buttons
-LCD resolution more than doubled
-Focus sensitivity of -8EV
-Increased battery performance (don't expect a quantum leap here)
-Maximum Electronic Shutter Speed “beyond” 1/8000s
-Dynamic range claim of 16 stops (claimed vs real world can differ)
-Full Size HDMI Port
-New “firsts” for Canon in AF algorithms (I'm sure the EOS R1 would also have those firsts and more)
-Slightly heavier body (Probably not noticeable)
-New IBIS performance modes (No details)


As well as last rumours:

Previously Reported EOS R5 Mark II Specifications

45mp BSI Stacked Sensor
New EVF design
12fps Mechanical & 30fps Electronic max burst rates
Eye Controlled AF from the EOS R3
New passive cooling design with two new vents
Active cooling grip accessory
Battery grip accessory
8K60P (with cavaets)
CFexpress Type B / SD card configuration
Launch Price: $3999 USD
Announcement: July 17, 2024
Shipping: August, 2024




Jul 13, 2024 at 04:05 PM
stanj
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p.28 #14 · p.28 #14 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


Northrup is a punk.


Jul 13, 2024 at 04:59 PM
armd
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p.28 #15 · p.28 #15 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


The anticipation is palpable and I'll bet the under. If they don't add pre-capture, zebras, etc. it's a pass.


Jul 13, 2024 at 06:29 PM
gkinard1952
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p.28 #16 · p.28 #16 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


Was looking forward to the R5II, but now with the new LR Denoise it has solved one of my problems with the 7D II. I had two problems with the 7D series, noise which has been solved. AF which I will just have to live with. Although interested in trying it. There is no way I would spend 4K on it.. Picked up a used 7DII and 18-135 years ago for 800 bucks. Now will just wait until the R5 drops.. The Japanese Yun is in the toilet against the US dollar. Hopefully a few E-bayers from Japan will list a new one for rock bottom prices. Or even better yet a used one from Japan. Then I might bite..



Jul 14, 2024 at 11:15 AM
Alan Kefauver
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p.28 #17 · p.28 #17 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


armd wrote:
The anticipation is palpable and I'll bet the under. If they don't add pre-capture, zebras, etc. it's a pass.


I'll bet there will be no Zebras for stills.

Can someone explain to me why there is this need for Zebras for stills? Why is this better than the peaking indicators we have now?



Jul 15, 2024 at 06:26 AM
numbertwo
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p.28 #18 · p.28 #18 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


Alan Kefauver wrote:
I'll bet there will be no Zebras for stills.

Can someone explain to me why there is this need for Zebras for stills? Why is this better than the peaking indicators we have now?


Zebras are for exposure, peaking is for manual focus.



Jul 15, 2024 at 07:03 AM
Hairy Heron
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p.28 #19 · p.28 #19 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


gkinard1952 wrote:
Was looking forward to the R5II, but now with the new LR Denoise it has solved one of my problems with the 7D II.


That's kinda funny b/c I'm looking forward to the R5 II exactly so I don't have to use software denoise as much for shots taken at high ISO. Should be a great body for the RF 100-500 and 200-800. For me no software is ever going to match an original file that starts with limited noise.



Jul 15, 2024 at 09:05 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.28 #20 · p.28 #20 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


Hairy Heron wrote:
That's kinda funny b/c I'm looking forward to the R5 II exactly so I don't have to use software denoise as much for shots taken at high ISO. Should be a great body for the RF 100-500 and 200-800. For me no software is ever going to match an original file that starts with limited noise.


I have 200-800, 200-400 and 600/f4 and R5 - and I think you will still be using software denoise at iso 12k even if the r5ii gets 1 stop better - because shooting at strong light just does not look as good as dusk and dawn - and you will want to keep your shutter speed up. 1 more stop will be nice but you will still want more ISO and reach performance. the R5 is okay now at 12k ISO and 200-800 (f9) but R5ii will just push me further into the dark.




Jul 15, 2024 at 09:17 AM
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