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Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

  
 
swldstn
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p.23 #1 · p.23 #1 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


stanj wrote:
Of all the things to complain about the Canon system being the aperture ring is a bit surprising to me. They have somehow survived since the 80s without it, and while my FD lenses had one, I always kept it in A and used the camera to set the aperture (A1, T90, still have both). I realize that now that the aperture ring is here (my Z has it) people are excited about it, but I wonder how many people choose a camera system based on the presence of an aperture ring - especially for stills.


I think you misunderstand me. I like aperture rings and first Fuji X cameras and now Sony G/GM have implemented them and that attracted me to those products. I would also enjoy it on Canon RF lenses if I thought it had been properly implemented but their new RF 24-105/2.8L and RF 35/1.4 L are really only a video implementation. Iíve read they actually only work in video mode. I love my Canon EF and now RF lenses and donít need it, as you say Canon has never had it on EF and RF glass until now but none of the 14 or so lenses I currently own have it so why add it now to the new RF 35/1.4L VCM lense?



Jun 19, 2024 at 02:30 PM
stanj
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p.23 #2 · p.23 #2 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


swldstn wrote:
so why add it now to the new RF 35/1.4L VCM lense?


Because video people want it, because on cinema lenses it's been always there, and video is becoming (overall) more important. And now still shooters are "hey me too!" which is on one hand understandable but also mostly a form of jealousy. I am also puzzled why it's enabled only in video and not stills, as an engineer I can't find a technical reason, but for me it ends with this curiosity and doesn't go to being upset or seeing conspiracies about forcing me to buy a new camera. If there are people who need to have a click-less aperture for stills I want to talk to them.



Jun 19, 2024 at 03:10 PM
garyvot
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p.23 #3 · p.23 #3 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


swldstn wrote:
I would also enjoy it on Canon RF lenses if I thought it had been properly implemented but their new RF 24-105/2.8L and RF 35/1.4 L are really only a video implementation.


Following up on my earlier comment, is there a reason you can't use the control ring on your RF lenses to control aperture?

as you say Canon has never had it on EF and RF glass until now but none of the 14 or so lenses I currently own have it so why add it now to the new RF 35/1.4L VCM lense?

Because is is a dedicated de-clicked iris control, as found on cine lenses, and generally not needed for stills. As these lenses are marketed as "hybrid" designs, it seems logical that Canon would add cine lens features not seen on regular RF photography lenses.

Edited on Jun 19, 2024 at 03:14 PM · View previous versions



Jun 19, 2024 at 03:12 PM
johnvanr
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p.23 #4 · p.23 #4 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


I like aperture rings, but only really need them for street shooting, combined with a depth-of-field scale. I donít use Canon for that, so I donít really care.

I do find it strange that Fuji lenses often lack an aperture ring and DoF scale and that the new Ďclassicí Nikon 40mm for the Zf also lacks both.



Jun 19, 2024 at 03:14 PM
swldstn
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p.23 #5 · p.23 #5 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


garyvot wrote:
Following up on my earlier comment, is there a reason you can't use the control ring on your RF lenses to control aperture?

Because is is a dedicated de-clicked iris control, as found on cine lenses, and generally not needed for stills. As these lenses are marketed as "hybrid" designs, it seems logical that Canon would add cine lens features not seen on regular RF photography lenses.


Hopefully I answer question. Iíve just not got used to using the control ring because some of the lenses itís near the front (different than traditional aperture rings) and in some itís closer and the EF to RF adapter I even paid the extra money for it but I understand itís closer and wish the native RF glass was like that.

I understand that itís a cine feature but I donít shoot video so I believe it still requires me to put each lens in A mode to get the camera to work for stills which is not something I have to do for my RF 50/1.2, RF 85/1.2, RF 135/1.8, etc, etc. Since it only works in A mode for still why not just have it disabled when I select Stills mode? Picky yes but a Paine to worry about since I donít believe there is an Iris Lock to keep it A mode on the lens.



Jun 19, 2024 at 04:28 PM
stanj
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p.23 #6 · p.23 #6 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


swldstn wrote:
I believe it still requires me to put each lens in A mode to get the camera to work for stills which is not something I have to do for my RF 50/1.2, RF 85/1.2, RF 135/1.8, etc, etc.


Yes. You do it exactly once, then you lock the ring, and leave it as-is. Once. I am quite certain that my Z came like that from the factory, so I didn't have to do it even once. I know that's an ergonomic challenge but it should be manageable by anyone who can figure out how to tun on the camera.



Jun 19, 2024 at 05:13 PM
swldstn
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p.23 #7 · p.23 #7 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


stanj wrote:
Yes. You do it exactly once, then you lock the ring, and leave it as-is. Once. I am quite certain that my Z came like that from the factory, so I didn't have to do it even once. I know that's an ergonomic challenge but it should be manageable by anyone who can figure out how to tun on the camera.


Well for now I guess Iím sticking with my EF 35/1.4 L II lens that I picked when I switched to RF. With the EF to RF adapter itís bigger and heavier than I would like but itís still a great lens. Just curious, does the new hybrid have an iris lock to keep those lenses I their A mode or is it just a friction detent? Friction detents, without a lock have a tendency to get pushed around in an equipment bag/backpack so not that fond of that approach.



Jun 19, 2024 at 06:37 PM
stanj
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p.23 #8 · p.23 #8 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


swldstn wrote:
Just curious, does the new hybrid have an iris lock to keep those lenses I their A mode or is it just a friction detent?


The Z has a screw knob to lock it in A. Can't speak for the 35 because I haven't handled it.



Jun 19, 2024 at 07:01 PM
Photonadave
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p.23 #9 · p.23 #9 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


^ I took a look at photos of the RF 35mm f/1.4 L VCM Lens on B&H and saw one the shows a slider switch marked with "IRIS" located next to the aperture/iris ring that I think that it is safe to assume that it is the aperture ring lock. The new RF24-105 Z also has the same slider switch.


Jun 20, 2024 at 01:56 AM
PhilH
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p.23 #10 · p.23 #10 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


Photonadave wrote:
^ I took a look at photos of the RF 35mm f/1.4 L VCM Lens on B&H and saw one the shows a slider switch marked with "IRIS" located next to the aperture/iris ring that I think that it is safe to assume that it is the aperture ring lock. The new RF24-105 Z also has the same slider switch.


Can confirm that is what that does when I used the lens at Cine Gear earlier this month.



Jun 20, 2024 at 02:09 AM
 


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swldstn
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p.23 #11 · p.23 #11 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


Photonadave wrote:
^ I took a look at photos of the RF 35mm f/1.4 L VCM Lens on B&H and saw one the shows a slider switch marked with "IRIS" located next to the aperture/iris ring that I think that it is safe to assume that it is the aperture ring lock. The new RF24-105 Z also has the same slider switch.


With a proper iris switch maybe I will consider it. How many people program the control ring on the RF lenses for apeture then? Or what else do people use it for?



Jun 20, 2024 at 06:03 AM
garyvot
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p.23 #12 · p.23 #12 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


swldstn wrote:
With a proper iris switch maybe I will consider it. How many people program the control ring on the RF lenses for apeture then? Or what else do people use it for?


Since Canon launched the original EOS-1 30 plus years ago, shutter speed and/or aperture have been controlled by the front (or main) dial (top of the grip near the shutter release) when in Tv or Av modes respectively.

In M mode, the Quick Control Dial (the wheel on the back of the camera near your thumb) is additionally used to control one or the other setting (they swap depending on your dial customizations).

So that was a wordy way of saying that most Canon shooters are probably *not* using the control ring on the lens for aperture, although it can certainly be configured that way. I think the most common use is probably for controlling ISO or exposure compensation. On cameras with three wheels, like the R1/R3/R5/R6 series, sometimes it's probably not used at all.

One nice thing about the Canon UI is that you can set the control ring to only operate when the shutter or AF-On button is half-pressed. This avoids inadvertently changing settings, as the control ring is easy to spin.


Edited on Jun 20, 2024 at 09:06 AM · View previous versions



Jun 20, 2024 at 08:56 AM
stanj
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p.23 #13 · p.23 #13 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


garyvot wrote:
Since Canon launched the original EOS-1 30 plus years ago


The T90 in 86, actually. The first EOS camera was the 650, in 87. At that point, Minolta already dominated the AF SLR market, at least at my high school, and I was looking at it with great skepticism. The EOS 1 came out in 89. I used to be young and naive then



Jun 20, 2024 at 09:03 AM
garyvot
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p.23 #14 · p.23 #14 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


stanj wrote:
The T90 in 86, actually. The first EOS camera was the 650, in 87. At that point, Minolta already dominated the AF SLR market, at least at my high school, and I was looking at it with great skepticism. The EOS 1 came out in 89. I used to be young and naive then


Yes, I sometimes forget the T90 because I was on hiatus from photography at that point and missef the whole tail end of the FD era. Great camera by all accounts. Thanks for the reminder.

I think I reference the EOS-1 because it was iconic of Canon's new approach to camera controls and electronic signaling compared to the Nikons of the day.



Jun 20, 2024 at 09:12 AM
lighthound
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p.23 #15 · p.23 #15 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


Staying with this threads intention.
I've heard the new R5II is going to allow you to control aperture simply by spinning a dial near your thumb.

Oh wait.... never mind.

I can not understand why anyone would want to fumble around reaching for a ring on the lens to make aperture adjustments. That seems like a giant step backwards to me considering the rear wheel is so intuitive and easy to use.

RF control ring = EC for me on all my lenses.
Although, I still have the set button set-up for EC as well so that whenever I have an EF lens attached, muscle memory still works from the EF days.



Jun 20, 2024 at 09:15 AM
swldstn
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p.23 #16 · p.23 #16 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


stanj wrote:
The T90 in 86, actually. The first EOS camera was the 650, in 87. At that point, Minolta already dominated the AF SLR market, at least at my high school, and I was looking at it with great skepticism. The EOS 1 came out in 89. I used to be young and naive then


I rebought the Canon EOS 1VH in mint condition. Itís one of three Canon film bodies I own. Have an original EOS 3 and an Elan IIe. So none of Canon back to them days had aperture rings on their lenses. Still donít need it for Canon since I donít do video.




Jun 20, 2024 at 11:19 AM
garyvot
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p.23 #17 · p.23 #17 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts




swldstn wrote:
I rebought the Canon EOS 1VH in mint condition. Itís one of three Canon film bodies I own. Have an original EOS 3 and an Elan IIe. So none of Canon back to them days had aperture rings on their lenses. Still donít need it for Canon since I donít do video.


Wait, so your concern is not that the iris ring cannot be used for stills, but that it is present at all?

If so, I completely misread your comment.

As others have said, you can effectively ignore this ring because it can be locked out altogether with a slider, and with current cameras it is non-functioning for stills in any case.

I never shoot video and so have no use for it, but having it on a lens would not prevent me from considering it for purchase. In fact, I just bought the 24-105 F2.8Z as a photography, not video, purchase.



Jun 20, 2024 at 01:37 PM
swldstn
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p.23 #18 · p.23 #18 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


garyvot wrote:
Wait, so your concern is not that the iris ring cannot be used for stills, but that it is present at all?

If so, I completely misread your comment.

As others have said, you can effectively ignore this ring because it can be locked out altogether with a slider, and with current cameras it is non-functioning for stills in any case.

I never shoot video and so have no use for it, but having it on a lens would not prevent me from considering it for purchase. In fact, I just bought the 24-105 F2.8Z as a photography, not video, purchase.


On Canon, for stills, Iíve never had an aperture ring, and originally did not know there was an Iris Lock to prevent it from getting out of the required ďAĒ setting for stills. Once I found out about an Iris Lock switch Iím OK with it being here. If it had a real working click/declick aperture ring that would be great since I would use it for stills but can easily live without it since Iíve always owned a Canon body with three dial/ring that can be used for aperture, shutter speed and ISO. Scotty for any confusion Iíve caused.

The programmable control ring to me is not a great aperture ring substitute or solution because, depending on the lens or adapter, itís not in the same place on every RF mount lens. So I do wonder what other people use it for which is why I asked that question.

New separate question, how do you like the RF 24-105/2.8 Z. Seems like an interesting lens. Do you own the Power Zoom attachment for it ven though you donít shoot video?



Jun 20, 2024 at 03:56 PM
rscheffler
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p.23 #19 · p.23 #19 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


swldstn wrote:
New separate question, how do you like the RF 24-105/2.8 Z. Seems like an interesting lens. Do you own the Power Zoom attachment for it ven though you donít shoot video?


Probably better to take this to the 24-105Z image thread where there's some discussion. But I'll give my 2Ę here in the meantime. I've had one on loan from CPS for a couple weeks and for stills I don't think there is a need for the power zoom attachment. The zoom ring on this lens is very light (but doesn't drift) and it's very easy to quickly zoom it to where you need it. Most of the recent Canon L zooms I've used have had quite heavy zoom rings that IMO require too much effort to turn. I guess it holds the lens at a given focal length better, considering that many are now external zoom, but I don't like it compared to some earlier EF models (some later EF zooms also have heavy zoom rings; the 70-200/2.8 II/III and 200-400 are two that come to mind). The Z is wonderful to use in part because of the ease of zooming it. I feel like the PZ attachment would get in my way when shooting stills because I'd be waiting for it to zoom to where I need it.

For video, the lens's low zoom resistance is probably sufficient for smooth enough zoom pulls in many situations. I've been impressed by how well jerky zoom pulls can be fixed later in post. But the power zoom attachment would be a surefire way to do as much right in the camera as possible.



Jun 20, 2024 at 05:06 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.23 #20 · p.23 #20 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts


I am going to repeat the latest rumour I have heard because the post is wandering about, and someone will start another soon without it:

$3999 USD
45mpx
stacked sensor
SD and CFx B card slots
better heat management
beta is out in the wild
likely lots of improvements on a/f, and buffer and clog
[possible a built in ND filter - added]
possible July announcement



Jun 23, 2024 at 01:02 PM
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