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Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

adamx12m
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

Since the 1dx2 Canon has dragged their feet with the 1 series which leads me to believe they think the sports market revenue is decreasing while nature, birds, and portraits is on the rise. That later group is buying a lot of R5/6/7/8 bodies and more lenses these days unlike the old sports guy with a 14 year old EF 400 that shoots perfect stills.

Mar 14, 2024 at 09:14 PM

docusync
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

This is just a compilation of random rumors though… Nobody knows what that camera will be. My personal wish is the same resolution but in a stacked sensor, preferably a new generation stacked sensor with 1/500s or faster readout speed so I could do xsync close to that speed. I think Canon won’t disappoint anyways. The original R5 was and still is an amazing camera.

Mar 14, 2024 at 09:18 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

lighthound wrote:
I suspect Canon will be using the R5II to demonstrate to the world that a stacked sensor or global shutter isn't needed to essentially make rolling shutter a thing of the past.
The original R5 was almost there already so it'll happen this time around.

The ancient R5 is in an interesting middle-ground position. In respect to rolling shutter it smokes the Sony 60MP sensor but for some applications, it's still a noticeable step back from stacked sensors.

I agree that it doesn't need to be stacked as long as it's comparable in respect to rolling shutter of the a1/z8/z9.

Mar 14, 2024 at 09:22 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

Scott Stoness wrote:
Which leaves you and I (landscape focussed people but me willing to have a separate body for landscape) frustrated by Sony, Nikon and Canon - who continue to wage war on autofocus, fps, global shutter, and video features - instead of resolution.

Hopefully Sony will realize there is an opportunity to scoop the landscape focussed market with a 100mpx, no AA, weighing 450 grams - without any video or wildlife features. That that kick Canon in the competitive pants to get going.But maybe that market (100% landscape focus) is too small.

If I were to buy another system it would...Show more →

There’s no perfect system, but Canon was above the competition in the high MP space before the R system was introduced. I’m just surprised that they may have surrendered that so easily.

I could afford the Fujifilm system, but I have concerns about lenses there. Their lenses appear to be quite good, but… their system is oddly configured, with strange overlaps and gaps… and missing entirely on the longer focal lengths that I rely on.

At the moment, Sony is looking much more interesting to me than it previously has.

Of course, I have to keep in mind that we are basing all of this on mere rumors.

Time will tell.

Mar 14, 2024 at 10:06 PM

Imagemaster
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

middlerockies wrote:
People have been saying similar things since the days of film. Nobody really needs any of these tools to get good photos. And yet we’re all still here spending our money on upgrades and chatting about each brand’s competitive advantages.

So what? Cameras have been getting better since the days of film and can do many things that film cameras just can’t do. Even mirrorless cameras can do things that dslr’s can’t do. If that contributes to helping one capture better images or not, anyone is free to choose and discuss whatever tools they want for whatever reason they want.

In case you have not noticed, that is what photographers do on photography forums.

Mar 14, 2024 at 10:13 PM

action99
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

Scott Stoness wrote:
4k 120fps is great. I won't have to drop to 1080p for slow motion (but I rarely use video).

log 1,2,3 is already there in r5 - does not seem like a big improvement. (and for me colour grading is a pain).

8k raw likely means improved 8k which is good for editing. (but its already good enough for me)

The above is not correct and not new to R5 II, the current R5 has already 4k 120, it does have also 8k RAW 30fps and it does not have CLog 2 (only 1 and 3).

Current R5 4k 120 is pixel binned if they do oversampling would be a good step forward but then it means that they are able to read 8k at 120 fps..... at the moment only RED Raptors can do this.

CLog 2 would mean that R5 II would have more video DR that is probably the biggest weakness of R5 for video.

Hopefully they will do 8K RAW at 60fps (like the R5c does) but without the need of an external battery.

For video shooter like me if they will offer 8K RAW at 60fps with better RS and DR is a big upgrade.

Mar 15, 2024 at 02:59 AM

Planetwide
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

My prediction:

R1 = 45MP
R5 II = 60MP

Caution, I have been known to be wrong...

Edited on Mar 15, 2024 at 07:37 AM · View previous versions

Mar 15, 2024 at 06:32 AM

Pete73
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

This would make a lot of sense by separating the R-1 and R-3 a bit, Also, it would put the R system resolution above the EF system hopefully capturing the last of the 5Ds-r hold outs, but sensible things don't always happen.

I will be waiting to see what the R-1 looks like before investing in an R5II. I really like the 1-series bodies but I have been shooting with the R-5 since the transition to the R system.

Planetwide wrote:
My prediction:

R1 = 45MP
R5 II = 60MP

Caution, I have been know to be wrong...

Mar 15, 2024 at 07:16 AM

Planetwide
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

Pete73 wrote:
This would make a lot of sense by separating the R-1 and R-3 a bit, Also, it would put the R system resolution above the EF system hopefully capturing the last of the 5Ds-r hold outs, but sensible things don't always happen.

I will be waiting to see what the R-1 looks like before investing in an R5II. I really like the 1-series bodies but I have been shooting with the R-5 since the transition to the R system.

The R1 at 45mp would be a very compelling camera, especially if it can do lower resolution crops at extremely high frame rates... Plus 8k. I find it hard to believe, that after 4+ years Canon will only upgrade the R5 to a BSI sensor and some AI trinkets. At 33mp and 45mp respectively, they would effectively be ceding the high ground to Sony and Nikon.

Mar 15, 2024 at 07:41 AM

Planetwide
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

Mar 15, 2024 at 07:44 AM

arbitrage
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

lighthound wrote:
I'd rather have a super fast readout on a 45mp body then a 100mp sensor with rolling shutter or the extra expense of a stacked sensor.
I suspect Canon will be using the R5II to demonstrate to the world that a stacked sensor or global shutter isn't needed to essentially make rolling shutter a thing of the past.
The original R5 was almost there already so it'll happen this time around.

The higher mp R5 will arrive with the R5III. Which is perfectly fine by me as I plan on skipping one generation anyhow. If I can't take good pics with my...Show more →

I get what you are saying but I just don't think they are going to be able to eliminate rolling shutter without a stacked sensor.
I'd also be happy with 45MP....having owned 50MP (A1) and 61MP (A7RIV) sensors I don't find any advantage to them over 45MP cameras I've owned (R5, Z9). I'm happy anywhere in that range and I also don't lust for more than that.

Yes the R5 is the fastest non-stacked sensor camera. But it is still 1/4 the speed of the Z9/A1 and now that we've seen bird wingtips out of the A9III we can see that even those stacked sensors are showing some distortion in the wing tips (all be it to an extent that really doesn't matter) compared to a global shutter. I have no lust for a global shutter but I've become very accustomed to shooting a stacked sensor where I don't have to worry about leaning lines in the background (the R5's biggest weak point, more so than any wing distortion). Beyond that, the big advantage is the EVF experience when shooting and especially when lifting off the shutter. As good as the R5 is with its read speed and EVF, the experience is just way better with the stacked sensor cameras.

I hope the R5II does use a stacked sensor and stays around 45MP. And I hope Canon can bring the stacked sensor EVF experience to their beautiful EVF which IMO is best in class for clarity, DR and exposure preview. The Z9/Z8 is absolute garbage for exposure preview and DR. The Sony EVFs (I haven't tried the A9III) is just not as nice as the R5....although because of live zebras in stills it is easier to expose despite not having as good of a view as the Canon EVF. If Canon could give us a high quality EVF, without frame jump and bring in live zebras it would be class leading in all aspects (Even if it doesn't go above 5million dots).

Finally with the Z8 showing us that you can sell a 45MP stacked sensor for $3,999 and the R5 release price was $3,899, I don't see having a stacked sensor in the R5II making it more expensive than the R5 was.

Mar 15, 2024 at 07:44 AM

Critters
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

I totally agree with arbitage. I use my R5 for critters, large and small, but I really prefer my Sony A7R5 for landscapes for several reasons, not the least is live view zebras! If the R52 doesn't have a stacked sensor, I will not buy it.

Mar 15, 2024 at 08:26 AM

Scott Stoness
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

Critters wrote:
I totally agree with arbitage. I use my R5 for critters, large and small, but I really prefer my Sony A7R5 for landscapes for several reasons, not the least is live view zebras! If the R52 doesn't have a stacked sensor, I will not buy it.

Not disagreeing with either you or arbitrage but stacked sensor and zebras do nothing for me who is really focussed on landscape on a tripod in early light.

Slow read out speed is a a meh for landscape.

I much prefer assisted focus with manual on my tripod to zebras that mess up the colour on the screen so much you can't tell if you have a good picture. Zebras are popular - in the colour vs focus - I think colour with slow focus on the screen with a tripod is superior - it does not distract from the most important element of composition. But I understand colour vs zebras is a personal preference. The R5 has zebras though, I thought.

But what this whole conversation says is that Canon is targeting BIF and video issues (45mpx fine, fast sensor speed, and video features) and ignoring landscape (mpx, weight, magnified focus, AA, dynamic range equivalent of AEB/exposure blending). Thus those pursuing landscape for the majority of their usage, they are not likely to desire R5II, over 5DSR or R5, without at least 60mpx (even thought 15% more resolution is modest) .

Mar 15, 2024 at 10:45 AM

artsupreme
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

arbitrage wrote:
I get what you are saying but I just don't think they are going to be able to eliminate rolling shutter without a stacked sensor.
I'd also be happy with 45MP....having owned 50MP (A1) and 61MP (A7RIV) sensors I don't find any advantage to them over 45MP cameras I've owned (R5, Z9). I'm happy anywhere in that range and I also don't lust for more than that.

Yes the R5 is the fastest non-stacked sensor camera. But it is still 1/4 the speed of the Z9/A1 and now that we've seen bird wingtips out of the A9III we can see that even...Show more →

I'm torn on the whole stacked sensor feature for the R5 because I don't need rolling shutter to be totally eliminated for what I shoot. I'm not a chip expert but if the R5 chips are 5+ years old I would guess they would be able to improve readout speed 30-40% with newer chips? Maybe get it close to the 10ms range? If yes, then I would be totally happy with it as it would eliminate the majority of rolling shutter. This would keep the same form factor, keep weight down, and leave more room inside for cooling during video use.

I know FM is basically a large birding community but there's a huge market of people out there who don't shoot birds and don't even notice rolling shutter on the current R5. With that said I think Canon could go either way with stacked or non-stacked and the R5II will still be a popular camera as it will likely be better than the competition in other areas like AF, EVF, ergonomics, etc. I could easily see them acknowledging they cannot make a flagship body and split it into two lines like they always have. R3/R1 for speed and stacked sensors, R5 for everything else.

For me personally, I hope it's not a stacked sensor and just an improved readout speed with the same form factor and similar weight. The R1 should be designated for the fast high MP stacked sensor camera. As for zebras, I've never had the need for it for stills but I guess it could be something welcome if they implement it in the R5II.

Mar 15, 2024 at 11:05 AM

Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

I'm more of a generalist photographer, mostly what I see when traveling and the 5 series has always been an excellent do everything camera. Not the fastest but good resolution and excellent IQ. The speed and capabilities have improved over these nearly 20 years. The R5 is the current best of this line. I was using it to focus stack desert flower closeups two days ago and track and capture diving boobies two months ago with excellent results and I still get beautiful landscapes as I always have. With its 45 MP and the 100-500 I don't have to lug an APS-C body and can often just use the 100-400 f8.

I don't know what the R5 II will bring but I'm sure it will be an excellent all-rounder like its predecessors. Probably along the lines of what Artsupreme is looking for. Look at the delta between the R6 and the R6 II and expect similar change.

Say, Scott, doesn't that over hyped firmware update that just gave us high megapixel images by shaking the sensor suit your landscapes on a tripod needs? I've never tried it.

Mar 15, 2024 at 12:29 PM

action99
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

Scott Stoness wrote:
I much prefer assisted focus with manual on my tripod to zebras that mess up the colour on the screen so much you can't tell if you have a good picture. Zebras are popular - in the colour vs focus - I think colour with slow focus on the screen with a tripod is superior - it does not distract from the most important element of composition. But I understand colour vs zebras is a personal preference. The R5 has zebras though, I thought.

You are mixing things up.
Zebras is an exposure tool and is a "bw pattern" that is used to alert you which areas are above a certain exposure level.
Focus peaking is what you seem to be referring above, where it colors the areas of strong contrast showing what it is in focus.

R5 does have zebras and peaking but only in video mode not in photo mode. Peaking is available only when in manual AF. R5c has peaking also when in AF mode.

Mar 15, 2024 at 12:53 PM

RoamingScott
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

artsupreme wrote:
I'm torn on the whole stacked sensor feature for the R5 because I don't need rolling shutter to be totally eliminated for what I shoot. I'm not a chip expert but if the R5 chips are 5+ years old I would guess they would be able to improve readout speed 30-40% with newer chips? Maybe get it close to the 10ms range? If yes, then I would be totally happy with it as it would eliminate the majority of rolling shutter. This would keep the same form factor, keep weight down, and leave more room inside for cooling during video...Show more →

The most general boon stacked gets you is blackout free shooting, which any burst mode shooter would benefit from. Rolling shutter is mostly a concern for people tracking a subject while quickly panning (edge case shooting).

Mar 15, 2024 at 12:56 PM

artsupreme
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

RoamingScott wrote:
The most general boon stacked gets you is blackout free shooting, which any burst mode shooter would benefit from. Rolling shutter is mostly a concern for people tracking a subject while quickly panning (edge case shooting).

Yes, and I shoot sports/action and it doesn't bother me as I have become used to it. So any improvement is welcome, but it doesn't need to be blackout free. You can still get the shot with some blackout.

Mar 15, 2024 at 01:07 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

Yeah, I have mixed feelings about blackout shooting sports. It's different than what I experienced with the 1DX series. With those cameras I could usually follow erratic motion with little difficulty. With the R6II in EFCS H or H+, the longer the sequence the more I feel like I'm falling behind, trying to catch up to the subject, particularly if shooting verticals and shooting as tight as possible. The EVF jumpiness Geoff mentioned in his post is also another annoyance. In e-shutter it's less of a problem because there isn't the blackout caused by the mechanical second curtain shutter, but there is still some cumulative lag due to apparent still-frame insertion. But likewise, at its price point, the R6II is apparently a better action camera than its competitors.

I agree though it doesn't have to be stacked as long as there is significant improvement in sensor read speed. Canon has shown that non-stacked can be reasonably fast and certainly faster than comparable non-stacked BSI models from Sony. Everyone was over the moon with the a9 back in 2017 and that sensor is about 1/150. If the R5II can come close, it would be good enough for most uses. 1/250 stacked could be for the R1, R3II, etc. Global is just splitting hairs even more. Sure, eventually we'll all be there (global) and will be happy with it, but IMO most sports coverage will gain marginal benefits over decent stacked performance.

Jeff Nolten wrote:
I don't know what the R5 II will bring but I'm sure it will be an excellent all-rounder like its predecessors. Probably along the lines of what Artsupreme is looking for. Look at the delta between the R6 and the R6 II and expect similar change.

R6 -> R6II was only about two years and the seemingly minimal improvement are reflective of this. But in actual use, the R6II is a better experience (smoother EVF even though the same panel due to underlying processor improvments), battery life, better sensor, AF customizability, high frequency flicker compensation, slightly faster sensor read speed than the R5, etc...

So for the 4-year R5-R5II gap, there *should* be more revolutionary than just evolutionary changes. At minimum considerably more powerful processor performance to allow significant speed improvements coupled with newer sensor tech to really speed up overall performance. I agree it will still be a generalist camera, like the 5 series always has been, but with a much smaller performance gap than the 1, 5 and 6 series cameras had in the DSLR era, as we've already seen with the R3, 5 and 6 models.

Edited on Mar 15, 2024 at 01:26 PM · View previous versions

Mar 15, 2024 at 01:24 PM

RoamingScott
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Newest R5II Rumours and Thoughts

rscheffler wrote:
Yeah, I have mixed feelings about blackout shooting sports. It's different than what I experienced with the 1DX series. With those cameras I could usually follow erratic motion with little difficulty. With the R6II in EFCS H or H+, the longer the sequence the more I feel like I'm falling behind, trying to catch up to the subject, particularly if shooting verticals and shooting as tight as possible. The jumpiness Geoff mentioned in his post is also another annoyance. In e-shutter it's less of a problem because there isn't the blackout caused by the mechanical second curtain shutter, but there...Show more →

You're not shooting true blackout free if you're using an old non-stacked sensor in H/H+.

Try an A1/A9iii/Z8/Z9 and you'll immediately know the difference...and likely never want to go back.

Mar 15, 2024 at 01:25 PM

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