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M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)

  
 
patotts
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


I've shot Leica rangefinder since late 90's back and forward, but no longer interested in using rangefinder (it doesn't help me "see" better) but I do really dig the smaller Leica M lenses. I've tried them on Sony and Canon mirrorless, but I am curious how they behave on the new Leica SL3? Anyone had a chance to try it yet? I'm especially curious about the 35'lux and 50'lux.


Mar 14, 2024 at 09:04 AM
Abuttolph
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


I can’t answer specifically about the SL3 or the two luxes, but I have been very happy with the results of M lenses on my SL2.


Mar 14, 2024 at 10:38 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


If you have the money, the SL series in general is a good option to adapt M lenses.
For a more cost-effective way, I would look into Nikon mirrorless FF cameras. Their sensor stack is also pretty thin and therefore allows good M lens adaptability, too (the thinner the sensor stack, the better for M-lens adaptability). In the past Sony was the go-to way before other brands offered FF-based mirrorless options but still today Sony mirrorless cameras have a thicker sensor stack potentially causing some issues with wider M lenses. Canon's sensor stack is also thicker than the one in current Nikon models.



Mar 14, 2024 at 11:41 AM
mranger211
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


You might also investigate a thin sensor modification (Kolari or other) on an older Sony. It works great with older M (and other) lenses, albeit at the cost of reduced performance with newer lenses optimized for digital cameras.


Mar 14, 2024 at 12:38 PM
Malabito
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


My m lenses work slightly better on the M, but they don't suck on the sl2s. They can be used, just some slight issues on the extreme corners...


Mar 14, 2024 at 12:53 PM
Luke_Miller
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


Malabito wrote:
My m lenses work slightly better on the M, but they don't suck on the sl2s. They can be used, just some slight issues on the extreme corners...


If I look very closely, I can see some slight softening in the extreme corners with my 21 and 24 Elmarit-M lenses, but not in longer local lengths.



Mar 14, 2024 at 01:39 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


Luke_Miller wrote:
If I look very closely, I can see some slight softening in the extreme corners with my 21 and 24 Elmarit-M lenses, but not in longer local lengths.


Makes sense - the SL series sensor stack is optimized to be used with DSLR-like lens constructions (meaning longer lens barrels compared to the M series etc). These kind of differences always play out in some softening in the corners of the frame and sometimes with purple color cast in corners. Rule of thumb I found from my days when adapting M lenses to Sony MLC is that the larger the end lens - in faster lenses - the better often the performance. F/2.8 with wider lenses was often borderline regarding performance. Sometimes newer f/2 based ASPH-based glass also gave some trouble with focus blur.



Mar 14, 2024 at 01:57 PM
johnvanr
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


I tried with the SL2s. Works fine, but the weight and size of the camera made it unpleasant for me.

For now, I’m sticking with my M11 and - if necessary - the Visoflex.

I had hoped the SL3 was significantly lighter and smaller, but it isn’t.



Mar 14, 2024 at 03:41 PM
flash
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


retrofocus wrote:
Makes sense - the SL series sensor stack is optimized to be used with DSLR-like lens constructions (meaning longer lens barrels compared to the M series etc). These kind of differences always play out in some softening in the corners of the frame and sometimes with purple color cast in corners. Rule of thumb I found from my days when adapting M lenses to Sony MLC is that the larger the end lens - in faster lenses - the better often the performance. F/2.8 with wider lenses was often borderline regarding performance. Sometimes newer f/2 based ASPH-based glass also gave
...Show more

The SL camera have offset and angled microlenses specifically to help with M lenses. They don't react like many other bodies. They're actually better with older wider M lenses than the M9.

But it's true that the longer or more modern a lens the better it performs on the SL bodies. Same for digital Ms.

Gordon



Mar 16, 2024 at 07:51 AM
Planetwide
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


Buy a low use SL2. 45mp and it will work just fine as a M camera.


Mar 16, 2024 at 08:32 AM
 


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stgrove
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


IMHO, why do we buy into the SL system. That is the question. Some want to use their beloved M lenses on it where they can focus with an EVF. Some just want an AF Leica camera and associated high quality lenses with a high rating for dust and moisture. Then there is the mix of the two, where once into the system one will decide how to use it if already owning M lenses or not. For me it also depends on what I plan to do with my final images. I print my favorites, but these days only out to 17x30 maximum.

My experience to date:

I have found that over time after acquiring some L glass, a few long, some regular (35 and 50 for me) and a wide APO 28, I stopped using M lenses since they are not AF and I like the AF on the SL system, especially while using back button focus which separates the focus from the exposure settings, giving me the camera control over automation. This will magnify subjects using an manual focus lens.

It all started once the SL2S came out and I started to explore the SL system since I always thought 24MP was a sweet spot for me when using my older M cameras. Then I found that many pros had similar thoughts due to the larger pixel sizes of the 24MP sensor with what some call larger micrometers and thus the theory was less noise due to larger micrometers. Then the SL2S Reporter was introduced and I liked the look of it since the huge L-E-I-C-A letters where there, but not painted white, in fact they were not painted at all and there was no Red Dot logo either. I liked the Reporter paint color since I had also had the Q2 Reporter. I liked it so much I searched for a second SL2S Reporter model and secured one. Then I even got a third black SL2S since I had originally thought this would be the camera for shooting in wind and blowing sands and occasional rain and if no lens changes would be necessary it would be shoot til you drop. On my second journey, I decided to leave the M system at home (mainly due to longer lenses being available for the SL system) on long trips of drive-fly-drive taking over 10-12 or more hours, I would take just use 3 zoom lens in order to minimize lens changes in the conditions described above - the Leica 24-90, Pan 70-200 with 1.4x, Leica 100-400 with 1.4x. In 10 days of shooting on only one quiet morning did I change lenses out in the Death Valley wild and in the end that was not necessary. I also took the Q3. This was a camping trip of 6 nights so that long drives in the dark for sunrise would be mitigated. I slept in the back of a pickup truck with a heavy goose down sleeping bag and my driver/guide preferred sleeping on the sand with potential scorpions to keep him alert. This was during the late January- early February time period.

To date my favorite M lens on the SL is the Noctilux 0.95 which is unique on an SL and balances very well with its heavier weight. That said I seldom use it on the SL ever since getting a few APO primes. Talking with others that has been their experience too.

In rapid succession I took one trip to shoot Navajo in traditional dress (here I mainly used the APO 28 and found it perfect for interior shots and even environmental portraits) and on another separate trip I went to Death Valley during extensive flooding and some rain too, which is VERY rare in Death Valley. Blowing sand was present on both shoots.

Then once back home I compared some Q3 shots with 24MP SL2S shots and often preferred the Q3 resolution except when I used the SL2S in multi-shot mode giving 96MP images on a single DNG. Even though I very much like the 24MP results the 60MP sensor has many benefits as well, especially for intense cropping which I find myself doing from time to time.

Since already being familiar with the 60MP sensor in the M11 and M11M and now the Q3, I acquired the SL3. The SL2 was never on my radar as I felt that if all other models had the 60MP sensor then the SL would also get this sensor in the next model. The SL3 has not been used very much for shooting in earnest as I am spending lots of time getting used to the new UI, which for me is welcomed. Once I have decided on my settings I imagine going into the menu system will not be needed due to its new flexibility. On this model at least my User Profile I was using when turning it off, still appears when I turn it on again. I had been caught out on more than one occasion with that not happening on the UI of the SL2S. Perhaps user error-I do not know.

That has been my reasoning for getting the SL3 in stead of the SL2. Your mileage my vary.




Mar 16, 2024 at 08:41 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


flash wrote:
The SL camera have offset and angled microlenses specifically to help with M lenses. They don't react like many other bodies. They're actually better with older wider M lenses than the M9.

But it's true that the longer or more modern a lens the better it performs on the SL bodies. Same for digital Ms.

Gordon


Agreed only that I personally never observed any issue with vintage LTM lenses on my digital M 240 based camera bodies. They actually work extremely well on this sensor at least. I have no experience with the M9 - possible that depending on the camera the functionality with vintage LTM lenses is limited.

I have seen in the past posts from SL users describing some issues with wider M lenses adapted to the SL. But it seems to occur less than with adapted M lenses on MLCs from other brands.



Mar 16, 2024 at 09:49 AM
LBJ2
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


Is there any official Leica documentation or interview comments describing specialized micro lenses on the SL2 sensor to support M lenses? I see this mentioned many times on the threads, but I don't think I've seen an official description.

Also I think I read somewhere the BSI sensors in the SL2-S and maybe in the SL3 as well, might not require specialized micro lenses for wider M lens performance. But maybe this is just some forum speculation as I can't remember where I read this one.



Mar 16, 2024 at 03:10 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


LBJ2 wrote:
Is there any official Leica documentation or interview comments describing specialized micro lenses on the SL2 sensor to support M lenses? I see this mentioned many times on the threads, but I don't think I've seen an official description.

Also I think I read somewhere the BSI sensors in the SL2-S and maybe in the SL3 as well, might not require specialized micro lenses for wider M lens performance. But maybe this is just some forum speculation as I can't remember where I read this one.


I'm interested in this too. I've tried out the SL and SL2, and I've found that M-lenses work really well on these sensors. They perform just slightly worse than on a Leica M, depending on the lens design and focal length. Way better than on any other body like Sony and Nikon.

I'm hopeful that the SL3 will perform similarly because with 60MP, imperfections become more noticeable.



Mar 16, 2024 at 03:45 PM
stgrove
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


Guess I should take my favorite wide M lens the 18mm and try it on my SL3 and then M11.


Mar 16, 2024 at 04:28 PM
serhan_
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


Jono's review from 2016 - Old and New Leica 28mm Summicron Asph tested on the Leica M(240) the Leica SL and the Sony A7 mark II:
https://www.slack.co.uk/leica-m-resolution.html

"Test shows that if you want to use this (and other) M lenses for landscape work, then the SL does a much better job than the Sony, but if you want the very best performance, then the Leica M is still the best camera to use with M lenses."

If you use some of newer Voigtlander lenses such as VM 21mm f3.5, they behave better with digital sensors. But then Sigma dg dn L mount lenses are usually small and behave better than M lenses.



Mar 16, 2024 at 05:22 PM
LBJ2
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


stgrove wrote:
Guess I should take my favorite wide M lens the 18mm and try it on my SL3 and then M11.


Just curious, is your M 18mm lens made for analog or digital ?



Mar 17, 2024 at 07:36 AM
LBJ2
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


Fred Miranda wrote:
I'm interested in this too. I've tried out the SL and SL2, and I've found that M-lenses work really well on these sensors. They perform just slightly worse than on a Leica M, depending on the lens design and focal length. Way better than on any other body like Sony and Nikon.

I'm hopeful that the SL3 will perform similarly because with 60MP, imperfections become more noticeable.


"...60MP, imperfections become more noticeable."

I think this is one of the concepts behind Leica's marketed "Triple Resolution" approach: e.g., in-camera pixel binning to produce smaller files/less data of the same image: 36MP or 18MP vs full 60MP

With this approach the same image produced at 18 or 36 MP files sizes at normal viewing might "appear" less flawed simply because less data = less magnification of the flaws at normal or sometimes even at 100% zoom viewing.



Mar 17, 2024 at 08:46 AM
Rob L
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


I'm pretty certain that the SL2 literature played up the offset micro-lenses. Don't know about the BSI sensors though. I have not seen it.


Mar 17, 2024 at 09:38 AM
LBJ2
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · M glass on Leica SL3 (or SL SL2)


Rob L wrote:
I'm pretty certain that the SL2 literature played up the offset micro-lenses. Don't know about the BSI sensors though. I have not seen it.


Yes. I think a lot of people feel certain. Plenty of forum comments in that direction. I just haven't found any Leica reference that describes specialized micro lenses on the SL2...yet. Last I've read/heard Leica describing specialized micro lenses was with the introduction of the M10-R ( by Stefan Daniel)

I am however happy adapting my Leica M lenses ( all made for digital I believe) on the SL2 whether that's due to thinner filter stack and/or specialized micro lenses, I don't know. I also have the same question for the SL3 which no doubt will be a popular Leica M lens adaptable camera too.



Mar 17, 2024 at 10:05 AM
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