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16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?

  
 
snegron7
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?


I'm not going to mention any particular lens because I'm looking for opinions regarding the differences/similarities of these two focal lengths. Also, the 1 stop aperture between both hypothetical lenses plays a part in this overall comparison.

Hypothetically, if both lenses are from the same manufacturer, same build quality, same AF performance, is there truly a major difference between 16mm and 17mm? Also, would one stop difference between the two really make a major difference?

I know there are several other factors to consider like IQ, weight, distortion corrections, etc. However, I'm trying to determine if there truly is a noticeable difference between the two focal lengths.



Feb 29, 2024 at 05:34 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?


You have to compare images from the two lenses, or at least have MTF, distortion, and etc. graphs in hand. Otherwise, you're pretty much debating opinions based on insufficient information. Like politics.


Feb 29, 2024 at 05:43 PM
snegron7
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?




jcolwell wrote:
You have to compare images from the two lenses, or at least have MTF, distortion, and etc. graphs in hand. Otherwise, you're pretty much debating opinions based on insufficient information. Like politics.



True, however I'm looking to see if there truly is a difference between both focal lengths.



Feb 29, 2024 at 05:51 PM
runamuck
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?


The difference between 16 and 17 is a few steps. Not enough to worry about.


Feb 29, 2024 at 05:56 PM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?


It's more about field of view that the lens sees. You have to compare both to see that. Some 16mm for instance maybe a couple degrees either way as that 16mm/17mm is just a number they use to describe the lens focal length. They may round up or down to give you that number as a 16mm maybe a 15.7 so they round up to 16mm. Thats very typical but what your after is the field of view each lens sees


Feb 29, 2024 at 06:06 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?


Also, if one lens is corrected for distortion before it is evaluated as, say 16mm, then it could be apparently much wider than a 17mm lens that's evaluated as 17mm, before its distortion is corrected. IOW, if you want an image of this example 17mm with little distortion, the 'fix' will cost some effective focal length.


Feb 29, 2024 at 06:25 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?


Regarding the difference in speed: will the wide open image quality of either be sufficient for your needs? Or how much do you have to stop down lens A or B to meet your requirements? If the f/1.8 lens is sharp from wide open, then it would offer some potential advantages, say perhaps for astro. Or if it's sharp enough by f/2.8 for your needs, and the f/2.8 lens needs to be stopped down another stop or two, it still has an advantage even though it might not meet your needs wide open. Also is there a significant size/weight penalty for the f/1.8 lens? As we've seen recently with the ultra-fast, UWA releases, they're not small. For me at least, UWA has become increasingly a niche focal length that is nice to have but not used all that often, therefore I wouldn't want to lug around a lens that might only be used for <5% of images. But a much more compact, slower lens that maybe stacks under another lens in a slot in the bag will see that use because I'll bring it more often. For example I bring the Canon RF 16/2.8 much more often than I do my EF 16-35/4 even though the 16/2.8 is not as strong optically in the image periphery.


Feb 29, 2024 at 06:38 PM
snegron7
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?




rscheffler wrote:
Regarding the difference in speed: will the wide open image quality of either be sufficient for your needs? Or how much do you have to stop down lens A or B to meet your requirements? If the f/1.8 lens is sharp from wide open, then it would offer some potential advantages, say perhaps for astro. Or if it's sharp enough by f/2.8 for your needs, and the f/2.8 lens needs to be stopped down another stop or two, it still has an advantage even though it might not meet your needs wide open. Also is there a significant size/weight penalty
...Show more


Good point! My luck with lenses has varied, but I usually end up stopping down a couple of stops with pretty much every lens I've ever owned! In the examples of tgese two hypothetical lenses, I would probably be shooting them at f4.0 to get better contrast, edge to edge sharpness, etc. I also agree that fast primes usually tend to weigh a lot as well!



Feb 29, 2024 at 07:32 PM
snegron7
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?




jcolwell wrote:
Also, if one lens is corrected for distortion before it is evaluated as, say 16mm, then it could be apparently much wider than a 17mm lens that's evaluated as 17mm, before its distortion is corrected. IOW, if you want an image of this example 17mm with little distortion, the 'fix' will cost some effective focal length.



Very valid point! I'm thinking both lenses would probably rely heavily on software distortion corrections, so they probably wouldn't be either a true 16mm or 17mm. Lenses that need little to no software correction are usually super expensive because of their optical construction.



Feb 29, 2024 at 07:35 PM
snegron7
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?




GMPhotography wrote:
It's more about field of view that the lens sees. You have to compare both to see that. Some 16mm for instance maybe a couple degrees either way as that 16mm/17mm is just a number they use to describe the lens focal length. They may round up or down to give you that number as a 16mm maybe a 15.7 so they round up to 16mm. Thats very typical but what your after is the field of view each lens sees


I believe one of them would have 103° while the other has 105° field of view (I'm not sure if that would be before or after corrections though).



Feb 29, 2024 at 07:37 PM
 


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rscheffler
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?


jcolwell wrote:
Also, if one lens is corrected for distortion before it is evaluated as, say 16mm, then it could be apparently much wider than a 17mm lens that's evaluated as 17mm, before its distortion is corrected. IOW, if you want an image of this example 17mm with little distortion, the 'fix' will cost some effective focal length.

snegron7 wrote:
Very valid point! I'm thinking both lenses would probably rely heavily on software distortion corrections, so they probably wouldn't be either a true 16mm or 17mm. Lenses that need little to no software correction are usually super expensive because of their optical construction.


One benefit of this is if you have scenarios where the uncorrected distortion is not obvious, can be minimized through composition, etc, you will have an even wider field of view, with likely better sharpness, than when distortion corrected. This is kind of the situation with the RF 16/2.8, which relies a lot on software distortion correction. It's definitely noticeably wider without software correction, but I haven't yet had a close look comparing peripheral image sharpness with/without correction.



Feb 29, 2024 at 10:09 PM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?




snegron7 wrote:
I'm not going to mention any particular lens because I'm looking for opinions regarding the differences/similarities of these two focal lengths. Also, the 1 stop aperture between both hypothetical lenses plays a part in this overall comparison.

Hypothetically, if both lenses are from the same manufacturer, same build quality, same AF performance, is there truly a major difference between 16mm and 17mm? Also, would one stop difference between the two really make a major difference?

I know there are several other factors to consider like IQ, weight, distortion corrections, etc. However, I'm trying to determine if there truly is a noticeable
...Show more

16 vs 17 wouldn't make a difference to me I don't think.

1.8 might be great for some stuff but mostly I'd use it 5.6+ if I could. 20/4 might be good for me even, I didn't notice a difference between switching to 21mm from 17mm at one point



Mar 01, 2024 at 12:15 AM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?


snegron7 wrote:
I believe one of them would have 103° while the other has 105° field of view (I'm not sure if that would be before or after corrections though).


103.7 vs 107.1 (before corrections)

Also check this out, If you put in 14 and 21 either side you'll see how little difference there is between 16 and 17
https://vahonen.info/fov/





Mar 01, 2024 at 05:33 AM
Ross Martin
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?


I’ve used both 16mm and 17mm in the past, and I prefer 16 because to my eye it is noticeably wider for how I use it (not dramatically, but enough that I appreciate it), and because that focal length for me is the widest I can go in my work without too much foreground /background size exaggeration for my tastes. I use 16mm in the excellent 16-35/4 PZ and the outstanding Viltrox 16/1.8 which on my copy is sharp corner to corner at f/1.8, which opens up some fun low light shooting possibilities.


Mar 01, 2024 at 11:32 AM
Craig Gillette
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?


Not having either lens nor insight into any rounding up or down and actual fields of view, I guess maybe the aperture difference would be more significant (maybe price, weight and size, too?).


Mar 01, 2024 at 03:22 PM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?


Just for reference I bought many super wides and for me my main buying choice always was wrapped around distortion more than anything as that one is a pesky bear to tame plus killed that field of view. I kinda liked the Laowa zero distortion products. The 15mm was really nice as the distortion was minimal and IQ at least on my copy was quite good plus it was fast.


Mar 01, 2024 at 05:33 PM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?


Got to thinking about it, I'd probably prefer 18-19mm vs 20mm I mentioned above. Once I got done straightening the horizon and correcting distortion might leave me at 20mm.

I really like the low distortion of the 11-16 Tokina



Mar 01, 2024 at 07:27 PM
Jeff
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?


snegron7 wrote:
I'm not going to mention any particular lens because I'm looking for opinions regarding the differences/similarities of these two focal lengths. Also, the 1 stop aperture between both hypothetical lenses plays a part in this overall comparison.

Hypothetically, if both lenses are from the same manufacturer, same build quality, same AF performance, is there truly a major difference between 16mm and 17mm? Also, would one stop difference between the two really make a major difference?

I know there are several other factors to consider like IQ, weight, distortion corrections, etc. However, I'm trying to determine if there truly is a noticeable
...Show more

For astro, a 1-stop difference could be quite significant (or not). The 1mm, not so much, as many lenses are not exactly as advertised (slightly wider/narrower), let alone the fact that most people couldn't say one way or the other (without a test reference).



Mar 02, 2024 at 09:39 AM
snegron7
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?




Jeff wrote:
For astro, a 1-stop difference could be quite significant (or not). The 1mm, not so much, as many lenses are not exactly as advertised (slightly wider/narrower), let alone the fact that most people couldn't say one way or the other (without a test reference).



Very valid point! How do we determine if the lens is actually what the manufacturer advertises it to be? In other words, how do we determine if the lens is truly a 16mm or 17mm and not a 16.5, 17.5, etc.?



Mar 02, 2024 at 09:48 AM
IlyaSnopchenko
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 16mm f1.8 vs 17mm f2.8?


If you're considering the Viltrox 16/1.8 (the only lens with such parameters in the town), all the reviews indicate that it's awesome. I would've totally gotten one if not for three things: a) a 16mm prime would be a little redundant in my lineup between the 16-35/4 IS and the 14/2.8; b) I'm a little short on cash because I've only just returned the loan for the Z9; c) I'm a little unsure that the Viltrox is already out in Z mount.


Mar 02, 2024 at 10:02 AM
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