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"Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.

  
 
airfrogusmc
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


My advice is also learn to use the DoF scales and zone & hyper focus.


Mar 04, 2024 at 03:27 PM
wolfloid
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


“On the other hand the shutter lag is borderline intrusive.”

I’ve not experienced shutter lag on the M246 in quite a few years of use. Maybe you mean ‘wake-up time’? Providing you can anticipate using the camera while it is asleep, you can just tap the shutter before raising the camera to your eye. For me, that always works. Obviously, a quicker wake-up time would be good, but Leica has never been good at that.



Mar 04, 2024 at 04:57 PM
ISO1600
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


airfrogusmc wrote:
My advice is also learn to use the DoF scales and zone & hyper focus.


And get shots that look no better than what can be achieved by a good photographer with a modern phone.
I know the experience of holding and manipulating the camera is part of the whole thing, but if you are going to drop $10k to get one camera and one lens, I would hope it brings something to the image that my Google Pixel can't.
Literally the only reason I have a "big sensor" (full frame) camera is so that I can control DoF, and have imperfect lens characteristics shine through in my images, something that most our phones still struggle with reproducing.



Mar 04, 2024 at 05:28 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Well I haven't seen a phone yet that is immediate and the image quality from the M 10 Mono is just amazing. There is more to a good photograph than shallow DoF and one can control DoF when that is the vision for the shot. I never said that you should only shoot stopped down but using DoF scales in very fast paced shooting situations can be a very useful tool.

No Shutter lag with the M 10 series.



Mar 04, 2024 at 05:50 PM
1bwana1
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


ISO1600 wrote:
And get shots that look no better than what can be achieved by a good photographer with a modern phone.
I know the experience of holding and manipulating the camera is part of the whole thing, but if you are going to drop $10k to get one camera and one lens, I would hope it brings something to the image that my Google Pixel can't.
Literally the only reason I have a "big sensor" (full frame) camera is so that I can control DoF, and have imperfect lens characteristics shine through in my images, something that most our phones still struggle with
...Show more

So, any camera, any lens, and any image not shot with a narrow DOF is no better than a phone image? On top of that lens aberrations are the primary driver for the emotive power of a photograph? I can't help but feel that if your understanding of photography is based on that, it needs considerable reevaluation.



Mar 04, 2024 at 06:41 PM
ZdevilH1
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Get the range finder if you have the funds. I have gone thru Fuji with their xpro line as well as the x100v. However, if you are up to a challenge, the Leica range finder is pure fun. From knowing where your lens tab is and understanding distance to subjects, it's been a true joy. To me it has just clicked, pun intended.
Add to the mix real world glass from Leica, Voigtlander, or Zeiss and you'll have a camera that won't get old.
Take your time and go thru some of the threads here to visualize images.



Mar 04, 2024 at 06:48 PM
 


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RexGig0
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Some personal* thoughts:

I was interested in rangefinders, as found in optical instruments other than cameras, before I was aware that Leica cameras used rangefinders to achieve focus. So, when I learned that I could enjoy playing with a rangefinder, while also capturing images, an interest in rangefinder cameras was born. This was long before I had a Leica M budget.

Images captured with specific Leica 50mm lenses, showing “character,” captured my attention, before I had developed a specific interest in Leica cameras. Eventually, I narrowed my priorities to acquire a Summilux-M 50mm ASPH. If I remember correctly, the M9 was extant, when I was considering the various 50mm M lenses. (Pre-M Type 240.) I still did not yet have a Leica M budget.

I did try X100-series cameras, at a large local camera store. The concept was interesting, but, the execution was, well, not fun. My Nikon Coolpix A could do what the X100 could do, or, close enough. The Fuji X Pro cameras were more my cup of tea, but I did not buy.

When a modest post-retirement financial windfall enabled me to entertain the idea of finally adding a Nikon “exotic super telephoto” lens, I was blessed to find a pristine, well-preserved, pre-owned Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, at a nearby Leica dealer. I was blessed to be able to try this lens, on pre-owned and demonstrator M9 and M Type 240 cameras, during several visits, while being coached by patient employees. I made my buying decision before I knew which camera I would be using as a rear dust cover for this lens. I was aware that at least one excellent M-to-Fuji X adapter existed, but, was leaning toward acquiring a new or pre-owned Type 240.

The Leica M, with a rangefinder, was SO MUCH MORE FUN than any Fuji.

The M10 had been introduced, but, more than a year had passed, with M10 cameras still being a waiting-list proposition, during my first visits to try that pre-owned Summilux. Then, on the day I decided to buy the Summilux, it just so happened that the Leica dealer had just been able to finish fulfilling the waiting list, with two M10 cameras available, in stock, that day. The Summilux, and a new M10, would cost less than any of the big telephoto lenses I had been considering, plus, I had injured my left shoulder, so, would not be using a big-heavy telephoto lens, anytime soon, anyway. I accepted the opportunity to test my Summilux on a new M10. It did not take long for me to decide to scuttle the big telephoto idea.

Almost six years later, my Summilux-M 50mm APSH remains my favorite M lens. My M10 remains the camera I am most likely to take with me. My left shoulder healed, completely, but, my aging back and knees are glad that I did not buy a 600mm f/4 or 400mm f/2.8 telephoto lens. My Nikon D5 does see frequent use, but, my wife and are more likely to be chasing wee beasties at very close range. (A Texas Master Naturalist, she has gravitated toward native plants, fungi, insects, amphibians, reptiles, and other often-overlooked beasties.)

I still do not want a Fuji.

*None of this may apply to any other person. My way is not “the” way.



Mar 05, 2024 at 12:10 PM
BPsmith511
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Circling back to this thread I've freed up funds and am heading into the "dark side" of Leica. I think I really want to at least try a full RF experience. Will most likely pick up an M10 or Mp240 or M262. Honestly leaning more towards the MP240/262 and save more to spend on glass. I don't care about video, don't use live view much (have Fuji for that) and I tend to leave ISO on auto. Like the looks and the buffer size of The M-P better, but the 262 can almost be used as a poor-mans M-D.. guess there's always choices to be made


May 06, 2024 at 07:26 PM
bjhurley
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


BPsmith511 wrote:
onestly leaning more towards the MP240/262 and save more to spend on glass. I don't care about video, don't use live view much (have Fuji for that) and I tend to leave ISO on auto.


Depending on the lenses you have, you might regret not having live view as a backup. I got a film Leica last summer (wasn't really planning on it but a friend offered to sell me one at an impossible-to-refuse price), and most of my M-mount lenses have focus shift, which makes them largely impractical for use with a rangefinder. I still use them but avoid certain f-stop ranges where the focus shift makes rangefinder focusing inaccurate. Most Sonnar lenses have focus shift and I have a couple of those in M-mount, plus some of the MS Optics lenses have strong focus shift. These issues are easily overcome with live view.

I found rangefinder focusing very frustrating at first and it's still hard-to-impossible on subjects with a lot of complex textures and no clear vertical lines, but eventually I got used to it and now I mostly enjoy it. You'll find that stopping down will help you since the larger depth of field will compensate for any focusing inaccuracies.



May 06, 2024 at 07:44 PM
BPsmith511
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


I'm pretty much a 50mm guy, never wider than 35/28mm or longer than ~70mm so pretty standard primes.


May 07, 2024 at 07:20 AM
bjhurley
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


BPsmith511 wrote:
I'm pretty much a 50mm guy, never wider than 35/28mm or longer than ~70mm so pretty standard primes.


Okay, but some lenses with the strongest focus shift are 50mm, like the ZM C-Sonnar 50/1.5. If you get a rangefinder camera without live view, just look at reviews for your 50mm lenses to make sure they don't have focus shift and you'll be fine.



May 07, 2024 at 07:23 AM
BPsmith511
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


bjhurley wrote:
Okay, but some lenses with the strongest focus shift are 50mm, like the ZM C-Sonnar 50/1.5. If you get a rangefinder camera without live view, just look at reviews for your 50mm lenses to make sure they don't have focus shift and you'll be fine.


Yeah I had heard of that with some of the Zeiss lenses, being calibrated to ~2.8 for focus and shifting around that. One of the things I've been considering when debating which 50mm to start with, though I'm leaning toward the Summicron for the full experience.



May 07, 2024 at 08:34 AM
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