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"Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.

  
 
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


I think this is a fairly easy choice to make-

1) do you have the money for a Leica? If no, stop here buy Fuji. If yes, continue to 2.
2) do you have the time/patience for film? If no, stop here buy Digital Leica. If yes, look into classic film Ms. They are wonderful.

A classic lens on a classic (mechanical) Leica M is an unmatched experience in the photography world. The feel and experience of using an old Leica with brass gears, worn leather, brassed edges, is just so dang satisfying. I miss it. I do not have the patience, nor the money, to justify getting another film M. I would consider getting one of the older/somewhat affordable full-frame M digital bodies. I would probably steer clear of the CCD cameras simply over concerns about sensor issues.

If you can afford a Leica, and want a tactile and deliberate experience, a Fuji X-Pro is not much more than a stopgap solution. It may scratch the itch, but the real thing will be much more fun, even though the Fuji X system is very capable. The Leica kit will also almost certainly appreciate in value, whereas the Fuji is not a sure bet.... Although in recent years, Fuji gear has strangely bucked the usual digital trend, not losing any value if you buy the right items and don't trash them.



Feb 25, 2024 at 09:33 PM
Geoff D F
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


The selling points for me would be to get the Leica if you can afford it and the lenses and like rangefinder focussing and don't mind post processing. The selling points for the X-Pro are the film sims and Fuji Weekly recipes and avoiding post processing. When I use my Fujis I think it is great fun to be able to keep 7 different favourite recipes in the camera and switch the "film" to whatever I think the scene dictates.




Feb 26, 2024 at 12:43 AM
ottokbre
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Me since about 2021:

Xpro3
M8
M240
Xpro3
X100F
Df
Xpro3
M4
M262

The Leica is engaging. Set a 50mm to f4 and shoot a portrait and it's wonderful. I love processing the M CMOS files. Colors grade well with a few presets as a starting point. Pull out some magenta when needed.

Fuji is great because you can hip shoot off the screen in a way you wont ever with the Leica, even with Live View. The OVF is wonderful with 35mm-50mm-75mm equivalent, and punch in the EVF for everything else. I love the Xpro with the 27/2.8, 35/1.4, and 50/2. Everything else starts to feel like regular old mirrorless. I didn't like the lens on the X100F for mechanical reasons as much as optical.

If you like to process in camera or use those dope film sims the Fuji is wonderful. You can certainly post-process Xtrans files but I never loved the process like I do with my Nikon and Leica files.

I think Leica and Nikon F are the best platforms for manual lens perfect on a digital body (I always wanted to try a Pentax K1 though). For AF primes the Fuji stuff is hard to beat.



Feb 26, 2024 at 08:59 PM
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


If I can add my two cents (probably worth a fraction of that) I come from a professional background using Hasselblad 501, Canon 5DsR, Nikon D4, and a "for fun" Original X100 all being in the same bag(s) depending on what I had to shoot that day.
I've since sold 99% of my stuff and invested into the Leica M mount system. Theres a lot of he said she said stuff when it comes to this system.. almost mythical. I dont know enough about ccd vs cmos vs whatever the new new is, but I do know that nothing (to me) has felt better than having a real range finder with a manual lens and nailing the focus on a moving subject.
For me personally I went with an M10 series camera, specifically the M10-R. I have not sat down and edited a photo on a computer in nearly two years. I simply wifi the .Jpeg to my iphone and do the very basic of adjustments with phone apps and call it good. I print by airdropping the files to my local lab's computer and usually print 16x20 or larger.
I personally own Zeiss ZM, Voigtlander VM, And Leica Summilux//Summicron/SuperElmar lenses and aside from the cool factor/status of shooting leica glass, I personally couldnt differentiate a print between something like a Leica 35 Summilux Steel rim and a Voigtlander Nokton Classic 1.4 ii.

I will say if you want slow and methodical and to really "hone your craft" and to test yourself, i think you will be best served by a Leica. Aside from the auto ISO or Auto shutter speed option (I personally do not use) you're offered a basic light meter and other than that all the decisions are yours. You physically select an aperture, you physically set an ISO as well a shutter speed.
::end of rant::




Feb 27, 2024 at 01:37 AM
Sax45
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


I shoot film, but recently decided to upgrade to a digital camera Iíd enjoy more than the ones I have (which will soon be sold). For me the top two choices were the X-Pro 3 and Leica M 240.

I love rangefinders. On the film side of things, I also just got an M3. I find RF focusing fun and intuitive, and there are times when the X-Pro 3 feels like it has two many options and settings to deal with. I also donít love that the X-Pro crops my vintage lenses.

That said, there is plenty of fun to be had with the X-Pro! Snap shooting one-handed,, with pretty good auto focus, is sometimes very fun. Film simulations are fun. Handing the camera to someone else, so that you can actually be IN the photo for once, is fun. Having a somewhat compact and very sexy camera ďfunĒ camera, that can also do everything your workhorse cameras can do, is fun. Buying a full set of Fujicrons for less than a Summicron is fun, and leaves money for other forms of fun.

As much as the Leica tempts me, selling the X-Pro would definitely be a step back in a number of ways. Maybe one day I will end up with a 240, alongside a more cost-effective Fuji setup with the same capabilities. A 240, plus an XT-3 or -4 with just the 16-80, would probably meet all my needs.



Feb 27, 2024 at 10:55 AM
panos.v
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.



BPsmith511 wrote:
Yeah, this is gonna be a polarizing thread but I'm debating my next "fun" camera purchase, strictly for me entertainment and slowing down and focusing on my photography. I have my Z8 and associated lenses for workhorse/wildlife work, have an X100VI on the way for documenting life etc (I had an X100F in the past for this and loved it). Really consolidating my kit after selling a bunch of Z-mount stuff I wasn't using and as I love RF styling/bodies when shooting I'm looking that way. This camera will be used for personal projects/daily life stuff. I don't really care
...Show more

Not wanting to repeat what everyone else said I'll add one thing.

While the M8/9 have their own CCD appeal, I would think seriously before getting those vs a 240 from a usability point of view. The 240 is just about reaponsive. Anything slower and I might as well use film. There is "slow" as in I have to crank this and advance that in film and there's "slow" as in ok I just wait now for the camera to do it's thing.

For example, I find the meter in the 246mono crap. It is frustrating but I can live with it as I'm happy using an external meter. On the other hand the shutter lag is borderline intrusive. The startup time is indeed intrusive. And so on. The EVF is downright embarrassing (but nobody buys a Leica for live view, right!).



Feb 27, 2024 at 01:56 PM
weatherproof
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


panos.v wrote:
For example, I find the meter in the 246mono crap. It is frustrating but I can live with it as I'm happy using an external meter. On the other hand the shutter lag is borderline intrusive.


There's noticeable shutter lag on the M246? I thought it was mechanical like all the other digital Ms (except the M11).


retrofocus wrote:
If only Fuji made any of their X-Pro series bodies with FF sensor....I would be there, too.


If Fuji made a full frame M-mount and sold it for under $3000 USD, it'd win over a lot of people. But they wouldn't be able to make any money selling lenses (printer ink). But I dream of this. Whose ear do we need to whisper into to make this happen??



Feb 27, 2024 at 02:08 PM
johnvanr
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Iíve tried the Fuji X-pro models several times and never liked them in real life, even though they look the part. I do like the X-100 models.

If you have the money, buy a used Leica (doesnít really matter which one, though I think Leica finally got it right with the M10) and a M-mount and try it out. Cheaper than renting, because they retain their value.

I like my M11 (bought used), but I also use my other gear.



Feb 27, 2024 at 02:30 PM
olegkin
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Different cameras exist for us to play. If you feel like you want to try Leica, go ahead and try it.

I personally used m4 for a few months last year after not shooting film for more than a decade. I worked, but I was happy to return it to owner and get back to my usual digital routine. It did not make me a better photographer. It did not change the way I shoot. I just had to fiddle with camera more instead of thinking about the picture/composition/background etc.
If you listen to Leica fans they will explain to you how film/rangefinder etc makes you slow down, but in the same time you don't focus so you shoot faster If you for no good reasons want to slow down, get a tlr, or 4x5. You will be "slowing down" more than shooting! I got c330 and I enjoy a completely different experience working with it from time to time.



Feb 27, 2024 at 02:42 PM
ottokbre
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


weatherproof wrote:
There's noticeable shutter lag on the M246? I thought it was mechanical like all the other digital Ms (except the M11).


No. Leica got shutter lag to a minimum. But on/off and waking up the camera isnt instant. On my M262 it's about 2.5 seconds from start up to fire. I'm sure this is improved with an M10.



Feb 27, 2024 at 03:08 PM
 


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BPsmith511
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Lots of great points made in this thread, and I appreciate them all. I've not yet firmly decided yet as I'll be focusing on the X100VI arriving shortly. But I think I am actually leaning more towards the X-Pro due to small, tiny things adding up into the "pros" column. Things like USB-C charging, the film sims, similar UI to the X100VI, screen for waist-level shooting etc. are pushing me in that direction.

I expected the price difference going the Leica route (probably a M240?) to be more of an issue for me but honestly it is not - its the little things that make no appreciable difference but I guess matter to me, like having to sit down end of week and edit photos (not a big deal, but still have to), or the coding of lenses/lack of EXIF info (don't ask me why, but I love data and having full EXIF on my shots) pushing me away.

I can always re-sell the X-Pro and still go Leica, or more than likely just pick up a Leica anyway down the line because as they say "It's never enough, always have to have one more..."



Feb 27, 2024 at 03:11 PM
ottokbre
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


The X100 cameras are appreciably smaller than the Leica and Xpro (which are almost the exact same dimensions, except weight). I did love how I could strap on an X100 and basically forget that it was there.


Feb 27, 2024 at 03:21 PM
retrofocus
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


weatherproof wrote:
If Fuji made a full frame M-mount and sold it for under $3000 USD, it'd win over a lot of people. But they wouldn't be able to make any money selling lenses (printer ink). But I dream of this. Whose ear do we need to whisper into to make this happen??


I don't think it will happen. There were rumors that Fuji has an agreement with Sony to distinguish themselves from Sony's dominance in the FF MLC sector. Sony on the other hand does not offer medium format cameras and slopped most of their cropped ones, too.....not sure if this is true or just worked out this way - who knows.

Not having lenses is IMO a much lesser issue. Same situation was with Sony in 2013 when they released their first gen of the A7 series cameras. They actually gave in Australia the Metabones adapter for free to allow mounting Canon EF lenses on their bodies. It took Sony several years to get an E-mount lens program going. Fuji possibly could do the same - relying on the fact that users could use their third party lenses with adapter on their hypothetical FF MLCs.



Feb 27, 2024 at 03:21 PM
retrofocus
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


panos.v wrote:
For example, I find the meter in the 246mono crap. It is frustrating but I can live with it as I'm happy using an external meter. On the other hand the shutter lag is borderline intrusive. The startup time is indeed intrusive. And so on. The EVF is downright embarrassing (but nobody buys a Leica for live view, right!).


The meter of the MM246 has just to be used a bit differently - it is certainly not crap! This is related to the missing Bayer pattern on the sensor which makes the sensor more sensitive to light. It is a good idea in many photo situations with the MM246 to underexpose one third or half a stop. I did not see a difference here to an external meter either.

The VF-2 is not the latest EVF technology but otherwise works fine as long as you don't get to quite underexposed areas where the EVF will show greenish tint in shadows (much more than in the final image).

There is shutter lag on the M 240 camera series especially when the camera defaults in sleep mode. It takes a few seconds after pressing the shutter button to be fully active. I got used to it and don't see it as biggie.



Feb 27, 2024 at 03:32 PM
olegkin
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


retrofocus wrote:
I don't think it will happen. There were rumors that Fuji has an agreement with Sony to distinguish themselves from Sony's dominance in the FF MLC sector. Sony on the other hand does not offer medium format cameras and slopped most of their cropped ones, too.....not sure if this is true or just worked out this way - who knows.

Not having lenses is IMO a much lesser issue. Same situation was with Sony in 2013 when they released their first gen of the A7 series cameras. They actually gave in Australia the Metabones adapter for free to allow mounting
...Show more

There is a L-mount. Both OM System (Olympus) with their advanced firmware and Fuji with film simulations could have started their full frame journey with it. And I bet both would have done fine.



Feb 27, 2024 at 11:05 PM
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


A full frame mount Fuji for 3K or less would be a very very serious proposition.
However, I have to agree with one of the other posters that as nice as the Fuji system is, in comparison to a Leica. It just has a whole lot more going on and simplicity isn't really what the Fuji is good at... Yes, it's far more simple than a Sony, but a modern Fuji camera still has a lot of settings to dive into and a lot of different ways you can set the camera up.
A large part of the beauty in the Leica m system is the simplicity.



Feb 28, 2024 at 02:37 AM
retrofocus
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


olegkin wrote:
There is a L-mount. Both OM System (Olympus) with their advanced firmware and Fuji with film simulations could have started their full frame journey with it. And I bet both would have done fine.


The Leica L-mount? It came later (in 2014) long after Fuji was already so embedded into their APS-C centric MLC route. Olympus? It still exists with its name....



Feb 28, 2024 at 08:11 AM
wolfloid
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


ď It just has a whole lot more going on and simplicity isn't really what the Fuji is good at... Yes, it's far more simple than a Sony, but a modern Fuji camera still has a lot of settings to dive into and a lot of different ways you can set the camera up.Ē

I hear this a lot, but there are different ways of looking at it. I own and use both M cameras (more than 25 yrs) and a Fuji X 100V. Setting the Fuji up takes a few minutes, when you are used to it, and you can leave it so it is as simple as an M. Auto ISO, Aperture priority, and good to go. The only difference is the autofocus. Why is that so complicated? Sure, you can change the set up - to full manual, or speed priority, or fill-flash - extremely easily, but thatís up to you. Itís called versatility. Or you can make a choice and stick with it, and use it just like your beloved M. The only issue here is the wavering mind.



Feb 28, 2024 at 12:09 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


I sold all my Canon digital gear in 2015 and went all Leica M at that point. I bought my first digital Leica in 2012. I picked up the M 9 Mono then and had it for 9 years until I sold it to help fund the M 10 Mono. I now have 2 M 10s and the M 10 Mono and have never regretted the decision to move to all Leica M. The big plus for me is the Leica M is it is a true rangefinder. It really fits the way I see and work. When I fifnally full retire I will sell my to color bodies and most of my glass. But I will always keep my M 10 Mono and my Leica 35 1.4 Summilux FLE asph v1 and my Leica 24mm 2.8 Elmarit asph.

I never warmed up to Fuji. Never liked the way they functioned. The same for Sony. Great cameras but not for me. Just to much stuff I don't want or need. One of the reasons I moved away from Canon.

To the OP as already mentioned rangefinders aren't for everyone. If you are really thinking about making a move then try one for more than a day or two to see if it works for you.



Feb 28, 2024 at 02:47 PM
BPsmith511
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


airfrogusmc wrote:
To the OP as already mentioned rangefinders aren't for everyone. If you are really thinking about making a move then try one for more than a day or two to see if it works for you.


Yes I have heard that it is more of a "try for a few months" kinda thing to see if the rangefinder focusing gets along with you.



Mar 04, 2024 at 01:39 PM
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