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"Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.

  
 
BPsmith511
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Yeah, this is gonna be a polarizing thread but I'm debating my next "fun" camera purchase, strictly for me entertainment and slowing down and focusing on my photography. I have my Z8 and associated lenses for workhorse/wildlife work, have an X100VI on the way for documenting life etc (I had an X100F in the past for this and loved it). Really consolidating my kit after selling a bunch of Z-mount stuff I wasn't using and as I love RF styling/bodies when shooting I'm looking that way. This camera will be used for personal projects/daily life stuff. I don't really care about megapixel count etc.

For the X-Pro 3, I don't care about the screen because I don't chimp even as it is. I really loved using the film sims on my X100F, and am looking forward to it on the upcoming VI. Obviously the hybrid OVF/EVF is different and unique. The camera is more affordable and has nice primes that I would be using (likely 35/75mm equiv). USB-C Charging, newer etc. Not many true negatives that I can see.

Then the Leica option - I've never full-time used a true rangefinder, but every time I play with one it seems so intuitive and fun (who knows if that will hold true). I'm actually interested in the older CCD sensors like the M8 or M9 (despite the known issues with both). Yeah, I know "No difference" vs the "CCD is king" crowd - I just happen to like the overall look of the files out of them call it film-like or what you want. The obvious downsides to this are the overall price (body + lenses), age of the camera and the unknown of the rangefinder style to me.

Is the outlay worth it? Spend less and focus on photography with the Fuji? Lots of "only you can answer" type questions I know, mainly looking for advice from users of similar cameras as to the overall experience I guess?



Feb 24, 2024 at 06:04 PM
RustyRus
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Get the Rangefinder-

I have owned and still own Fuji's, Sony's and Cannons-

The Leica is the most fun I have ever had and continue to have in photography- Period. Most specifically the Leica M series.

I use an M11, M11m, Leica M-A film camera,
I still use the Leica Q3, Sony A7rv and Fuji X100's when I need AF or what something different but 10 out of 10 times- I always want my M-Body over anything else.

Thats it- Get any Rangefinder camera you want- Hell start with an M3 film body off the used board with a nice Voigtlander lens and have at it-

Take CCD, vs picture quaility vs M11 this, bad investment that- take away all the negative BS you will find-


Using a RangeFinder camera with an MF focus lens is fun and makes photography fun again. PERIOD

Thats as honest as I can be-

Good Luck




Feb 24, 2024 at 06:26 PM
theHUN
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


You want to slow down? Get a manual focus film camera.

Range finder? I recommend a 6x9. Either a Fuji G(S)W690 if you want something more clinical (in image quality) or current. Alternatively, if you want something more compact and don't mind a 75 year old camera, get a Voigtlander Bessa II. 8 frames per roll will make you spend more time thinking about your shot. And when you get that shot, you will be rewarded with a monster negative. Better not ruin it with a squeegee!

Is it as good/fun as they claim? No, it is sooo much better.



Feb 24, 2024 at 06:46 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Personal opinion...I'd lean towards the X-Pro/Leica type solutions simply because film is/can be a real PITA depending on how close/far you are from a lab and the prices for developing/scanning are through the roof. Plenty you can do in post combined with filters to get filmic photos.

That said, I don't ever shoot slower than when I'm shooting film, so



Feb 24, 2024 at 07:16 PM
mboy
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


As much as I hate the Leica rangefinder monopoly(excluding pixii) id have to recommend the rangefinder purely for the optical 'lagless/evf screen' experience to see the scene as refreshing natural and as close as your eye would see, which shouldn't be undervalued in digital screen environment we now live.

The xpro has always felt a fraction behind instant so much so I felt Ive missed the moment.It might be negligible now for others compared to say dslr as Ive understand it has been measured now to 0.15 +- of of Fuji bodies, but it's still perceptible. YMMV on how much one can tolerate. But after many years I can notice it

BTW Fuji released the x100vi with an Electronic Rangefinder ERF

The "Electronic Range Finder" (ERF) function allows a small EVF to be simultaneously displayed on the OVF, permitting the photographer to capture the subject in the OVF and magnify the in-focus area in the small EVF, thereby increasing the capabilities of the viewfinder. The ERF function is highly convenient for snapshots, etc.

If Leica ever made a EVF of sorts with rangefinder coupling they'd probably rip the idea from Fuji

https://www.fujifilm.com/th/en/news/unveiling-fujifilm-x100vi-the-one-and-only-compact-digital-camera-with-sophisticated

Edited on Feb 24, 2024 at 08:13 PM · View previous versions



Feb 24, 2024 at 07:56 PM
BPsmith511
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


RoamingScott wrote:
Personal opinion...I'd lean towards the X-Pro/Leica type solutions simply because film is/can be a real PITA depending on how close/far you are from a lab and the prices for developing/scanning are through the roof. Plenty you can do in post combined with filters to get filmic photos.

That said, I don't ever shoot slower than when I'm shooting film, so


Honestly I *love* film but the long-term developing/scanning costs are not appealing to me (which I get is hilarious when talking about $3000+ cameras).



Feb 24, 2024 at 08:05 PM
ocean2059
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Personally, I think shooting Leica M rangefinder is very different than that of Fujifilm X100/X-Pro bodies even though they have similar style of OVF. There have been several good discussions about getting into Leica M system:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1744063, and
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1802832




Feb 24, 2024 at 08:27 PM
theHUN
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


BPsmith511 wrote:
Honestly I *love* film but the long-term developing/scanning costs are not appealing to me (which I get is hilarious when talking about $3000+ cameras).


I did the math for Rodinal, and a roll of 120 film costs me $0.78 to develop (10 rolls need 120 mL of Rodinal, 30 mL of stop, and 120 mL of fixer), after a one-time purchase of ~$200. A refurbished Epson V850 runs around $800, but you can scan with your existing digital camera as well. Never settle for lab scans.



Feb 24, 2024 at 09:04 PM
stgrove
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


IMHO, one must ask what will I be doing with my images (jpg, RAW-and then online, print, print size etc.) and also what type of photography will this new camera be used for by myself. Moving subjects take some getting used to with a Leica RF.
Do you need FF or is APS-C OK? Do you like to have a file size with room for extensive cropping sometimes? Are you saying you want to get into another system with interchangeable lenses? Of course there are many more questions to ask, but this is the internet.


Perhaps contemplating an earlier Q or Q2 might suffice and it is FF and then Iridient x-Transformer is not needed to convert Fuji files to DNGs if you shoot mainly RAW..

Edited on Feb 24, 2024 at 09:25 PM · View previous versions



Feb 24, 2024 at 09:13 PM
theHUN
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Another thing I like about film is the ability to "swap the sensor" so to speak. You will not be "stuck" with either CMOS or CCD or color or b/w. With film you can easily swap between color negative, slide, traditional b/w, C41-based b/w. It can be super fun.


Feb 24, 2024 at 09:21 PM
 


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RoamingScott
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Time is money too, which you did not factor in at all (if one reasonably could).

theHUN wrote:
I did the math for Rodinal, and a roll of 120 film costs me $0.78 to develop (10 rolls need 120 mL of Rodinal, 30 mL of stop, and 120 mL of fixer), after a one-time purchase of ~$200. A refurbished Epson V850 runs around $800, but you can scan with your existing digital camera as well. Never settle for lab scans.




Feb 24, 2024 at 09:49 PM
1bwana1
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Since all the cameras produce very fine images, it is the experience we are after in our personal cameras. If it is the Range Finder experience one enjoys, then there really is only one answer. It is Leica. Leica offerers the best Range Finder experience available today, and by a huge margin. The other attributes of the Leica M line are also very special. Yes, there is a premium, but it is also a premium experience. The price premium can largely be mitigated through the active used market.

For me, the Laica experience has been worth every cent of the cost.



Feb 24, 2024 at 10:13 PM
BPsmith511
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


theHUN wrote:
I did the math for Rodinal, and a roll of 120 film costs me $0.78 to develop (10 rolls need 120 mL of Rodinal, 30 mL of stop, and 120 mL of fixer), after a one-time purchase of ~$200. A refurbished Epson V850 runs around $800, but you can scan with your existing digital camera as well. Never settle for lab scans.


Unfortunately space also takes into the equation as well. I live in a small apartment as a couple, with animals, and I barely have room to store my photo equipment. I do plan to look into home developing/scanning when I purchase a home in a few years, but that is not set in stone yet.



Feb 24, 2024 at 10:23 PM
BPsmith511
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


stgrove wrote:
IMHO, one must ask what will I be doing with my images (jpg, RAW-and then online, print, print size etc.) and also what type of photography will this new camera be used for by myself. Moving subjects take some getting used to with a Leica RF.
Do you need FF or is APS-C OK? Do you like to have a file size with room for extensive cropping sometimes? Are you saying you want to get into another system with interchangeable lenses? Of course there are many more questions to ask, but this is the internet.

Perhaps contemplating an earlier Q or Q2
...Show more

I am comfortable enough with the Fuji jpegs to shoot mostly that if going that route, with RAW backup and editing if needed. If going Leica, would probably batch-edit at the end of the week which I also do not mind, but is more "intensive". Subjects will be varied, day-to-day life but nothing *fast* like active animals or children. I have the Z8 for that. FF or APS-C is fine (or APS-H), I don't need to crop much and would be using primes, preferring interchangeable lenses.



Feb 24, 2024 at 10:26 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


BPsmith511 wrote:
Yeah, this is gonna be a polarizing thread but I'm debating my next "fun" camera purchase, strictly for me entertainment and slowing down and focusing on my photography. I have my Z8 and associated lenses for workhorse/wildlife work, have an X100VI on the way for documenting life etc (I had an X100F in the past for this and loved it). Really consolidating my kit after selling a bunch of Z-mount stuff I wasn't using and as I love RF styling/bodies when shooting I'm looking that way. This camera will be used for personal projects/daily life stuff. I don't really care
...Show more

I own both the X-Pro3 and digital and film Leicas, and I really enjoy using all of them. The optical viewfinder on the Fuji is both enjoyable and practical when paired with manual focus lenses. It allows me to see my entire composition while also ensuring precise focus using a small EVF screen located in the bottom left. I find this method of shooting to be both fun and accurate. On the other hand, the Leica features a true mechanical rangefinder, making it fast and easy to align the subject in the viewfinder patch, although it's a different experience from the Fuji. I think it's important to try both systems to see which one suits you best. The latest Voigtlander lenses for Fuji are a fantastic addition to the system, especially when using the optical viewfinder.



Feb 24, 2024 at 10:38 PM
qdbp
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Use the X100 for a while. If you're always preferring EVF mode, then neither an M nor an X-Pro would make much sense. On the other hand, if you often autofocus and then need to magnify to verify and/or adjust the focus distance, an optical rangefinder makes a whole lot of sense. Or, if you like the optical finder but autofocus works well for you, then an X-Pro would be hard to beat (perhaps cross-shop an SLR instead of an M).

Another potential tool to help with slowing down would be a tripod. In being slow and clunky, they reinforce visualization and intention.

Personally, I think the X-Pro2 is a great camera. I bought one when my M9 broke and I couldn't afford to replace it with another M. When I could, though, I did, and haven't really used the Fuji since. And my tripods make solid doorstops ... but I wouldn't know about their strengths or that those strengths don't suit my style unless I had practiced shooting with them.



Feb 25, 2024 at 12:33 AM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Iíve pretty much shot the swath of brands from high-end point and shoots to medium format film and digital, including Fujis and Leica you mentioned.

If you can live within the confines of Leica RF shooting or film RFís (and they are significant), they are as good as it gets.

Give an m240 a try with a CV 35/2 Ultron. Itís a cheap entry ticket, and I think youíll know relatively quickly if you dig it. You can sell that combo at no loss if you buy intelligently and youíll have scratched in itch.



Feb 25, 2024 at 01:51 AM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


I had the Xpro3 and it was v nice. But it only looks like an RF camera, it actually isnít one - something I am sure you are aware of. Manual focus requires using the EVF whether you decide to use it to fill the entire screen or a small corner. You are still using the EVF.
The bottom line is if you have the rf itch, only a real rf camera will scratch that. Not an evf camera that looks like an rf camera.

I would rent both - lensrentals.com - and try them out.



Feb 25, 2024 at 10:35 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


Fred Miranda wrote:
I own both the X-Pro3 and digital and film Leicas, and I really enjoy using all of them. The optical viewfinder on the Fuji is both enjoyable and practical when paired with manual focus lenses. It allows me to see my entire composition while also ensuring precise focus using a small EVF screen located in the bottom left. I find this method of shooting to be both fun and accurate. On the other hand, the Leica features a true mechanical rangefinder, making it fast and easy to align the subject in the viewfinder patch, although it's a different experience
...Show more

If only Fuji made any of their X-Pro series bodies with FF sensor....I would be there, too.



Feb 25, 2024 at 08:07 PM
theHUN
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · "Fun" rangefinder experience - X-Pro vs (older) Leica.


BPsmith511 wrote:
Unfortunately space also takes into the equation as well. I live in a small apartment as a couple, with animals, and I barely have room to store my photo equipment.


Fair point.

BPsmith511 wrote:
I do plan to look into home developing/scanning when I purchase a home in a few years, but that is not set in stone yet.


As you can tell from my responses, I enthusiastically support this.

Film was a curve ball development (get it?) in my journey. I was primarily interested in medium format, and while I had initially dismissed film for its slow workflow, the pandemic made me reconsider spending $10k on a digital medium format system, and so I DID buy a film-based medium format system. It has been an eye opening experience, especially once I started doing my own scans and developing my own film.



Feb 25, 2024 at 08:35 PM
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