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Why is this image soft?

  
 
Rudy Pohl
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Why is this image soft?


After 15 months of using my R5 and an RF 100-500L lens I finally bought the RF 1.4x extender. I'm doing some testing and a few days ago I got a whole wack of Short-eared owl images that came out soft like the one below.

Can anyone hazard a guess why this is the case?

Gear used: Canon R5 + RF 100-500L + RF1.4x tc
Lighting conditions: Owl was side-lit and partially backlit just before sunset.
Focus: The red focus point square is shown directly on the face in DPP4
Shutter Speed: 1600 (maybe too low?)
ISO: 8000 (no blown highligts)












Thanks,
Rudy



Feb 22, 2024 at 08:19 AM
artsupreme
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Why is this image soft?


The camera just missed focus, it happens. That, and it's also a fairly heavy crop so that's not helping the cause either.


Feb 22, 2024 at 08:27 AM
Rudy Pohl
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Why is this image soft?


artsupreme wrote:
The camera just missed focus, it happens. That, and it's also a fairly heavy crop so that's not helping the cause either.


By a fairly heavy crop are you saying that the owl is too far away to expect a sharp image?




Feb 22, 2024 at 08:37 AM
artsupreme
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Why is this image soft?


Rudy Pohl wrote:
By a fairly heavy crop are you saying that the owl is too far away to expect a sharp image?




No, not at all. But if the camera missed focus and you combine that with a heavier crop and higher ISO they'll all contribute to a softer image. The R5 can easily handle a crop like that if it nails focus.



Feb 22, 2024 at 08:43 AM
Uarctos
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Why is this image soft?


Lens was at the same temperature as the ambient?

Edited on Feb 22, 2024 at 09:10 AM · View previous versions



Feb 22, 2024 at 08:47 AM
Alan Kefauver
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Why is this image soft?


Don't know about Owls, but I shoot BIFs (and running GSDs) at at least 1/2000 and usually 1/2500. Yeah it looks like the cam missed focus.


Feb 22, 2024 at 09:03 AM
garyvot
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Why is this image soft?


There is a known problem with image softness when using hoods with telephoto lenses in very cold weather conditions, unless the equipment has been allowed to acclimate to the external temperature for a time. If you've recently exited a vehicle, warm air gets trapped close to the front lens element inside the hood and the temperature differential causes softening.

This may be completely irrelevant to your shooting situation here, but I thought I would mention it in case it applies.



Feb 22, 2024 at 09:36 AM
rscheffler
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Why is this image soft?


And the assumption is also you weren't sitting inside a running (parked) vehicle with the heat on. Or one that was just parked with only one window open (all of the heat will be exiting through the same opening you're shooting through).

Were all of the photos during that time soft like the example, or was it just one or two sequences?

To me it doesn't look like motion blur due to suboptimal shutter speed, but rather missed focus and/or atmospheric conditions.



Feb 22, 2024 at 09:57 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Why is this image soft?


1/1600 really seems to stop a lot of action. Long FL, but I'd think IS helps a relatively even flight you're likely to get. So I don't think that's the problem.

I've pretty much given up trying to photograph birds from warm cars on cold days. If I see something, windows tend to get rolled down and the heater turned off.



Feb 22, 2024 at 12:14 PM
stanj
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Why is this image soft?


Pretty consistent with my experience with owls in this light. The combination of high ISO and slightly off focus. DxO Pure Raw will help quite a bit, I find it essential for all my owls, but the cropping is basically magnifying the ISO and OOF problems.


Feb 22, 2024 at 12:27 PM
 


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lighthound
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Why is this image soft?


Atmospherics are messing with you here.
I've seen the same thing, even after taking several short burst letting the AF get a fresh lock each time before each burst.

It's frustrating as hell.

To add to what Gary described above.
Steve Perry did an episode once talking about this. He discovered he could get clear shots after he removed the lens hood.



Feb 22, 2024 at 01:30 PM
Rudy Pohl
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Why is this image soft?


Hi folks,

Sorry for not replying before now, I've been out most of the day trying to get sharp shots with this new TC.

Regarding the apparent consensus shaping up here that this is probably an atmospherics issue here's the background. If was an insanely cold day so I was waiting in the car until someone spotted the first Shortie. However I was aware os the atmospherics issue so I kept the car pretty cold and open the windows often.

Someone saw an owl and according to my time stamps I short my first image, owl on a fencepost at 4:57 pm and it was sharper than the one I've posted here. The time stamp on the one I posted here is 5:21 pm, so it was taken 24 minutes after the camera was taken outside in the freezing cold, so there was lost of time to acclimatise.

Anyways, I just got the OK from the Mrs. to head back out for an hour drive in the country to take another shots at these owls if they're still around, so I'll check back in later.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Rudy



Feb 22, 2024 at 02:58 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Why is this image soft?


How about doing a controlled test of something static to confirm the lens & TC combo is as sharp as you expected? My only experience with the RF 1.4x is using a CPS copy on a CPS 100-300 loaner and the combo was very sharp - I could not discern any image quality loss in the TC images vs. without. I'm not sure if the 100-500 is quite at that level, but am guessing it should be sharper than the example you posted.

The only other thing that comes to mind is: do you have a filter on the 100-500? If so, try some without to determine if there is any difference. Again, a static controlled test would probably be easier for spotting any differences. There have been discussions about filters causing image sharpness loss on long zooms like the previous EF 100-400s, IIRC.



Feb 22, 2024 at 03:03 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Why is this image soft?


I had made a comment about shooting too far away subjects with 700mm and crop mode in your other thread before I saw this thread.

I don't think that is atmospherics in that shot even though it looks like it. Just before sunset is a rare time for atmospherics...it is usually the best time to shoot without atmospherics. But you never know, I've had atmospherics pop up in times I really couldn't understand. I think it is a combination of low light, noise and slightly missed AF because of the TC and lower light.

Certainly in good light and with good atmosphere you can get much sharper shots with that combination even for BIF. But as I said in the other thread, I was never all that happy with BIF using the 100-500/1.4TC. I really think that you are almost always better off shooting the bare lens and cropping more. Once the bird is too far for 500mm with crop factor then it is probably too far away to ever get a great shot. 700mm plus crop factor is really pushing things and especially at the light levels in your SEO shot.



Feb 22, 2024 at 03:54 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Why is this image soft?


That looks exactly like heat distortion or atmospheric distortion to me, which can happen at any time of day, and even differ from shot-to-shot as the subject travels through the air. A slow moving bird at that distance is not a challenge for the AF system and DOF isn't a factor at F10. It can happen anytime. It doesn't even really look truly OOF to my eye, the edges look fairly well defined - it looks like the camera focused just fine, but through haze which destroys all the fine detail and makes it look 'mushy'.

At that distance I also doubt your shutter speed was an issue, it doesn't look like it and also you would typically see some parts of the image sharper than others if that was the case (i.e. sharp face but blurry wingtips). That image has the same level of 'sharpness' across the whole subject. Of course high ISO, low light, and simply not having many pixels on the subject are all working against you here but I don't think that is why the image looks the way it does.

Almost all my shooting these days is done at 800mm, so not much different than what you have there, and I've come home with sets of images that look exactly like that, and it was clearly heat haze. Morning, afternoon, evening - doesn't matter, you can still have atmospheric issues anytime there is a temperature differential. I probably notice it the most above water or around snow, this time of year anyway.

One way to quickly check for heat haze, especially if it's bad, is to defocus your lens and look through the EVF at the now blurry image preview - you can actually see the waves in the air that aren't as easily visible with the naked eye or when focused on a subject.

Hard to say 100% for sure just based on a couple photos, but again, that looks precisely like my images when they are affected by atmospheric issues.



Feb 22, 2024 at 05:56 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Why is this image soft?


I agree, looks like haze to me. I've hot shots equally ruined where the subject filled the frame, it's a PITA.


Feb 22, 2024 at 06:27 PM
garyvot
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Why is this image soft?




rscheffler wrote:
The only other thing that comes to mind is: do you have a filter on the 100-500?


Ah yes, I have seen this mess up my 100-500.



Feb 22, 2024 at 06:29 PM
Rudy Pohl
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Why is this image soft?


Hi all,

I just got home from my outing in the country, but unfortunately there were no Short-eared owls there this evening. Apparently it's pretty hit and miss... only the second time I've been there.

Anyways, I've read all your new posts... thanks very much for the input.

And yes, I do have a filter on the lens, it's a very expensive Nikon clear filter. I will remove it tomorrow and continue testing. I'll also post a few more SEO shots from 2 days ago so you can see the variation of sharpness that occurred in less than 30 minutes of shooting time 2 days ago.

Finally, here are a couple of Golden-eye BIFs from today. These guys are real speed demons. Mind you for the most part most of my shots today at the river missed focused. I guess what these two examples indicate is that the camera, lens and extender do at least sometimes work together to produce sharp images. IMO these are actually quite poor images and I typically wouldn't post these on my Flickr site. However they are so much better than anything I've gotten since I got the extender I thought I would share them here. Do you think the extender is OK and working fine, or should I take it back to the store?






Canon R5 + RF100-500L + RF1.4x tc
f/11, 1/2000th, ISO 2000, 700mm






Canon R5 + RF100-500L + RF1.4x tc
f/11, 1/2500th, ISO 4000, 700mm






Feb 22, 2024 at 07:03 PM
Grampy
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Why is this image soft?


I agree with the aforementioned Posts before me, it is most likely environmental haze, Ive experienced this a number of times when shooting over longer distances especially in summer. The images really look way out of focus. I have been shooting with the R5, RF 100-500 and 1.4X RF tele and I am VERY happy with the results as far as image quality. For BIF my setup has been using Servo AF, Zone (mid size), 1/4000 sec., F stop close to F9, let the ISO go as high as 6400, animal eye setup, High speed shooting, and Electronic First Curtain shutter and shoot continuous bursts while following the subject. I usually shoot Ducks in Flight, Hawks, Hummingbirds etc and have had what I cosider to have a fairly good success rate, sometimes you may only get 1-2 good keepers out of a burst of 25-30 images. I also use Flash with High Speed sync along with the Magmod or Better Beemer Fresnel lens ususally for single shots of birds in shade or in the tree canopy. Hope this helps you, just keep shooting and try and get closer to your subject if possible


Feb 22, 2024 at 07:23 PM
Grampy
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Why is this image soft?


I agree with the aforementioned Posts before me, it is most likely environmental haze, Ive experienced this a number of times when shooting over longer distances especially in summer. The images really look way out of focus. I have been shooting with the R5, RF 100-500 and 1.4X RF tele and I am VERY happy with the results as far as image quality. For BIF my setup has been using Servo AF, Zone (mid size), 1/4000 sec., F stop close to F9, let the ISO go as high as 6400, animal eye setup, High speed shooting, and Electronic First Curtain shutter and shoot continuous bursts while following the subject. I usually shoot Ducks in Flight, Hawks, Hummingbirds etc and have had what I cosider to have a fairly good success rate, sometimes you may only get 1-2 good keepers out of a burst of 25-30 images. I also use Flash with High Speed sync along with the Magmod or Better Beemer Fresnel lens ususally for single shots of birds in shade or in the tree canopy. Hope this helps you, just keep shooting and try and get closer to your subject if possible


Feb 22, 2024 at 07:27 PM
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