Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site

New Feature: SMS Notification alert

New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

2 end

Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

Pixelpuffin
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

I’m intrigued to know if any canon have been specifically converted to monochrome.

I know about the Pentax monochrome K3iii, also know it’s possible to convert older Pentax bodies to monochrome.

I’m curious if it can be done with canon too?

Feb 21, 2024 at 03:45 PM

garyvot
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

This is a fascinating topic. I think a lot of people aren't aware of potential for a "pure" monochromatic sensor.

Even in the web-resolution images on the Pentax K3 Monochrome landing page, you can see a luminosity that is sometimes hard to achieve by processing output from mosaiced sensors.

https://us.ricoh-imaging.com/product/pentax-k-3-mark-iii-monochrome/

Leica of course is invested in this too, at eye watering prices.

I have not heard of any conversions for Canon cameras, unfortunately, but I would also be curious. It would be a perfect use for an older DSLR body if a sensor conversion service was available.

By all accounts Nik Silver Efex is still the gold standard for black and white processing from digital, but one must buy the entire collection from DXO now, and I find most of the other filters to be a bit gimmicky or duplicative of other tools.

Feb 21, 2024 at 04:32 PM

Pixelpuffin
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

I’ve been watching YouTube videos of Pentax monochrome , I’m fast falling for it but the cost…!! Jeez!
So posted a question on a separate forum about converting my K5 , there’s a video on YouTube of the K5 monochrome , looks incredible.
Been quoted £550 plus postage
Not cheap 😳

My RP has a scratched sensor would have been perfect for the conversion

Feb 21, 2024 at 04:46 PM

gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

Pixelpuffin wrote:
I’m intrigued to know if any canon have been specifically converted to monochrome.

I know about the Pentax monochrome K3iii, also know it’s possible to convert older Pentax bodies to monochrome.

I’m curious if it can be done with canon too?

You can do it, but it seems like a poor idea to me.

We’ve been producing excellent monochrome photographs and prints from full color sensor cameras for quite some time now.

Even more, we can do things that film photographers would have killed for. We can bring full color data into our post-processing workflow. We can decide what filters to apply in post. We can apply filters of ANY color, and we can adjust the opacity (intensity) of the filters. We can apply different filters to different parts of the images.

Oh, and sometimes it turns out that a subject works better in color. We don’t have to carry two cameras.

Feb 21, 2024 at 05:12 PM

Pixelpuffin
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

Just out of curiosity
My RP with its scratched sensor…
I might try to use the dust/scratches feature in the menu to see if I can soften the smudge marks

Worth a try, always thought dust and scratches was a gimmick??

Feb 21, 2024 at 05:18 PM

Jeff Nolten
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

Can't ya just choose Mono in LR or something? I'm with Paul Simon in that everything looks worse in black and white.

Feb 21, 2024 at 07:34 PM

Imagemaster
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

Don't forget to do a Infrared conversion while you are at it.

Feb 21, 2024 at 09:22 PM

AmbientMike
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

You can go into the Picture Styles menu and shoot in B&W on any Canon I've ever used. Called Parameters on the old 20D, but same basic thing.

Feb 21, 2024 at 09:30 PM

Choderboy
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

Googling "convert canon dslr to monochrome" shows that you can.
It also bypasses the predictable "why not just convert colour to B&W" responses.
I think 99% of people know you can do that.
Such responses are pointless IMHO without providing opinions on the benefits of a converted sensor.

The question is, are those benefits worthwhile. Probably best not to read Leica literature on that topic as it is marketing. I have done some reading on the topic and my, admittedly only casual interest, makes me think it's probably not. Increased detail is one often mentioned benefit, but instead of spending money on an older body, upgrading to a newer higher resolution colour body may be better value.

Feb 21, 2024 at 09:57 PM

rscheffler
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

If comparing two identical sensors, other than one having a Bayer CFA and the other not, the one without will show better luminance detail/resolution because there is no image interpolation, as is required for the Bayer CFA image. You also gain light sensitivity by eliminating the CFA, which would benefit those who work in low light environments. IIRC Kodak offered one of their early DSLRs as a monochrome version for this reason. IIRC they also had some unique CFAs at this time, such as CMY rather than RGB for better light transmission to counter the low light limitations of the sensors available at that time.

Anyway, I think a benefit of a true monochrome sensor is if you like to work with color filters to modify B&W tonal response at time of capture, such as yellow, orange, red filters, etc. Such as for darkening blue skies, lightening caucasian complexions, etc. Yes, you can do this in software too, but due to the nature of the Bayer CFA and how these 'raw' images are interpolated into color images, only to be B&W converted in post, there is some loss of tonality smoothness and resolution when simulating the effects of stronger B&W color filters. But as suggested, a higher resolution standard Bayer CFA sensor will counter some, most, or all of these losses.

Feb 21, 2024 at 11:05 PM

gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

Choderboy wrote:
Googling "convert canon dslr to monochrome" shows that you can.
It also bypasses the predictable "why not just convert colour to B&W" responses.
I think 99% of people know you can do that.
Such responses are pointless IMHO without providing opinions on the benefits of a converted sensor.

The question is, are those benefits worthwhile. Probably best not to read Leica literature on that topic as it is marketing. I have done some reading on the topic and my, admittedly only casual interest, makes me think it's probably not. Increased detail is one often mentioned benefit, but instead of spending money on an older...Show more →

I keep hearing about the benefits of converted sensors over using color sensors and converting to monochrome in post. I'm sure that there are measurable, on the test bench, differences.

But they don't matter, for two reasons.

First, photographers are producing truly beautiful images using color sensors and post-processing conversion. It isn't like we can't produce excellent monochromatic images and prints without using mono-only sensors.

Second, the shoot-color-covert-to-mono approach gives photographers even more creative and quality control over the final result than we ever had working with black and white film in the optical-chemical darkroom. In an earlier post in this thread I briefly mentioned some of those things. They are real and they make far more of a difference than a mostly theoretical improvement in resolution or DR that doesn't make actually improve the prints.

I got my start in black and white decades ago, and I learned to develop film and print in the darkroom. I still have warm, fuzzy feelings about that technology and what a talented practitioner could do with it. But bringing the full color data into the post-processing workflow gives today's monochrome photographer more of the control that we aspired to in the darkroom and more and more powerful ways.

I'm not saying that you cannot make fine photographs with a monochrome sensor and old-school glass filters if that is your thing. But the use of those things does not generate better photographs.

Feb 21, 2024 at 11:48 PM

burningheart
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

It is possible with any DSLR/Mirrorless. The conversion they do is by burning off the Bayer Filter. Then normally the add on a UV/IR blocking filter.

One problem with this method is the burning of of the Bayer filter, there is the possibility some pixels are not burnt off or damage on the remaining part of the sensor.

MaxMax was one of the first to provide ice this, not every conversion company will do a Black and White conversion and they stick to just IR conversions.

Lloyd Chambers (aka Diglloyd) used a Nikon D850 that was converted to Black and White and he gave a good review of the capabilities.

As others have said you can set most cameras to Black and White in the camera or do it in post. Quick and easy does give excellent images. You have the benefit in both worlds.

On the other hand if you want to photograph in just Black and White with no color information you are looking more at luminosity levels, tones and white, greys and blacks. One benefit of shooting a Black & White camera is you can shoot in darker situations as the Bayer layer is removed allowing more light to reach the sensor.

Some will claim you have more detail as you do not have the bayer layer interpolating color. Technically you do not get more detail as the sensor has the same number of pixels but you get what appears to be a sharper image.

Converting the camera can be expensive and if the entire Bayer layer is not burnt off you will see a difference in sharpness where areas not fully burnt off appears softer than areas fully burnt off.

I looked at getting a converted camera for B&W as I have had several converted for IR and Full Spectrum but in the end I opted for a Leica Monochrom. Ron touched on a couple of reasons I prefer a pure B&W camera. One of the other reasons was warranty. For myself it has worked out well.

I still have the option to use my color cameras and convert that way if I choose.

Others have commented that having a digital Black & White is not necessary a good idea. Though Phase One, Leica, and now Pentax all offer true black and white cameras and they cost a lot but they wouldn't be available if there was no demand. Conversion is another method as you have seen but that too is expensive and if the conversion doesn't go well that is the risk one takes.

Nevertheless it's each photographer's choice if they want a camera dedicated to B&W only, For myself I was against the idea for years, til I bought one and I never looked back. Last fall I seriously looked at the Pentax monochrom for wildlife and action photography. Alas I decided to just use my Canon R5 and convert. Haven't ruled out a Pentax but its not full frame, only 24MP and it would be another platform.

Feb 22, 2024 at 03:58 AM

TomSchriefer
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

gdanmitchell wrote:
I keep hearing about the benefits of converted sensors over using color sensors and converting to monochrome in post. I'm sure that there are measurable, on the test bench, differences.

But they don't matter, for two reasons.

First, photographers are producing truly beautiful images using color sensors and post-processing conversion. It isn't like we can't produce excellent monochromatic images and prints without using mono-only sensors.

Second, the shoot-color-covert-to-mono approach gives photographers even more creative and quality control over the final result than we ever had working with black and white film in the optical-chemical darkroom. In an earlier post in this...Show more →

This. Exactly. I grew up shooting B&W 620 film in a Kodak Brownie Hawkeye. When I graduated to SLR in the '70s I discovered colored filters. My first Canon was a 500D (T1i), and I thought 'monochrome' Picture Style was fantastic. Lots of adjustment in Contrast and Saturation, along with color filters built right into the software. At some point I discovered the B&W conversions (from raw color) available in LR and DPP. Either/Both are way more powerful than glass filters on B&W film. I've never shot a mono sensor, but I can't believe they are even close to what you can do with all the color data available all the time. Just like .JPG vs. .CR2(3), a mono sensor is simply discarding vast amounts of data.

Feb 22, 2024 at 04:57 AM

47photo11
Offline
•
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

How I think of it:
I got a camera shooting 3 monocromatic images at once (R, G & B).
If I want to process in B&W I can choose a mix of the 3 monocromatic images at will.
If I want the B&W shooting experience (for composing) I switch my mirrorless to B&W mode and have the non-color EVF.
The RAW can still be processed to my likes.

Feb 22, 2024 at 08:33 AM

AmbientMike
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

This is the first I'd heard of this, of course heard of the Leica but not sure if I'd heard of B&W conversion other than IR. Definitely curious about the supposed benefits. Using color to affect the final outcome is definitely an advantage, DR and resolution probably not a big enough deal to get me to get one, though

The op hasn't been interested in pp in past threads, not sure if he knew he could use picture styles and in camera settings to do B&W. And you have access color filters , contrasy, etc in camera, bit if a darkroom right with you

Feb 22, 2024 at 08:58 AM

rscheffler
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

TomSchriefer wrote:
a mono sensor is simply discarding vast amounts of data.

All sensors are monochrome. The only reason we have color images from digital sensors is the color filter array (CFA) over the monochrome sensor. Through software interpolation, the monochrome value from each pixel is used to interpolate the color it represents in order to reconstruct a color image.

Removing the CFA only eliminates reference to color information but not tonality. If the end goal of the photographer is a monochrome image through a monochrome capture workflow, then nothing is lost.

While the Leica Monochrom cameras are hyped with a lot of Leica marketing, the bottom line is that some photographers WANT to work in a 'pure' monochrome workflow with fewer options at time of capture and without the option of making substantial changes in post (such as through the color mixer to simulate different B&W color filters). For some this is about being in a specific mindset when making photos and being committed to that process without options to change it later. It's usually not a technical justification, though some of the minor technical benefits of a monochrome sensor for this type of workflow might also be of consideration.

I feel if the OP enjoys his images more when working with a monochrome camera, then he should do it. Isn't that the whole point of doing it as a hobby?

Feb 22, 2024 at 10:37 AM

AmbientMike
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

Friend of mine used to have a gallery, really some of the best B&W I've ever seen is off a Holga

Really the best B&W I ever did is Pan F on top quality paper in the darkroom. I'm not really interested in the hassle of setting up and keeping up a darkroom, but that is the best B&W. I've done digital B&W that I really like, but it's not quite there, on the same level

So if someone is interested in the best B&W, a digital camera of any kind really isn't the best solution imo

Feb 22, 2024 at 11:46 AM

Bacalhau
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

the b&w conversion topic vs monochromatic sensor is as hot as the 3d effect and bokeh....
I would go for an infrared or full spectrum converiosn if you want to bring that camera to 'life'
Kolari is one name but there a few others worth to consider.

you can inquire with those concersion companies if your specific camera will work, and better yet find if lenses you have for it are suitable

Feb 22, 2024 at 12:01 PM

garyvot
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

AmbientMike wrote:
Friend of mine used to have a gallery, really some of the best B&W I've ever seen is off a Holga

Really the best B&W I ever did is Pan F on top quality paper in the darkroom. I'm not really interested in the hassle of setting up and keeping up a darkroom, but that is the best B&W. I've done digital B&W that I really like, but it's not quite there, on the same level

So if someone is interested in the best B&W, a digital camera of any kind really isn't the best solution imo

There is something more immersive and tactile working with black and white film and processing, that's certain.

I have seen brilliant work from digital too. And I think you need to shoot medium format film at minimum to get anything close to the resolution and tonality available from a modern full frame sensor.

I shot Tri-X and HP5 for many years. Funny enough, my favorite 35mm "black and white" film during the digital darkroom era became the late, great Kodak T400-CN, which was a C-41 process monochrome color negative film. I made some beautiful scans from that stuff. It was easy and cheap to process almost anywhere, and I felt it had a real luminosity at the time

Feb 22, 2024 at 06:20 PM

runamuck
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Converting to monochrome - is it yet possible?

The more detail may be real. I shoot Deep (850NM) IR. I notice much more detail in clouds than with color or even 720NM IR. Sometimes I see greater detail in other areas also. Conversion simply removes existing filters and inserts a filter than blocks light below 850NM. This results in B&W images SOOC. No interpolation needed.

I worked with a guy who was totally color blind. He had NO color vision. Viet Nam came and he thought he could not get drafted. They took him and put him in intelligence because he could see different textures in camo over natural foliage. He also need new glasses every few months because changes in vision created headaches.

Feb 22, 2024 at 06:45 PM

1 2 end
FM Forums \| Canon Forum \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 end

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.