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New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z

  
 
Jepser
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Knut. wrote:
Is there any definite information if and possibly when this lens will come in e-mount?


It is anounced but hasn't got arelease-date yet.



Voigtländer

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1846836/



Jun 09, 2024 at 05:42 PM
coralnut
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Sjredo wrote:
so I got the lens about a week ago... and I find it very hard to fall in love with.

I already have the 40 1.2 glued to my camera, but this one I find a little bit too difficult to work with. I don't do portraits and I'm mostly on the street/landscape camp.

I like the rendering but the focus throw seems a bit too long, the focus ring a bit stiff (I guess it's to add a bit more precision), and I find nailing focus on a longer FL like this one is HARD even with assists, at least when
...Show more

I can understand your initial frustration. Moving to an extremely fast lens that almost doubles your focal length is going to lead to a difficult learning experience when it comes to manual focusing -- no matter what kind of focus confirmation assistance you may have. Moving from 40/1.2 to 75/1.5 is a lot like moving from 50/1.4 to an 85/1.4. If you're focusing wide open on a subject that's 2 m away, then you're only going to have a several cm DOF with the 40, which will cut down to only a few cm with the 75. Nailing focus wide open is going to be tough. The focus is intended to be stiff, with throw being longer than what you're used to, so that fine-tuning is possible. Getting used to that is an adaptation of it's own. Then there's the focus shifting problem.

I think there's a general truth that very fast lenses become difficult/frustrating to use wide open as you progress to longer FL. Part of the difficulty that people have adapting to MF lenses like this can be derived from the ease of use that they've previously enjoyed with large aperture AF lenses, where the focal length has been much shorter and/or the camera has been doing all of the heavy lifting.

One thing that I've noticed is that the primary proponents of this lens don't seem to be posting pictures that have been shot wide open. Their landscape photos look like they've been stopped down. Although the natural tendency is for a new lens owner to like to shoot a fast lens wide open, I'm seeing that the people who have the most experience with this lens on other mounts seem to be stopping down -- they're mentioning f/11.

Don't feel like you are obliged to always shoot this lens wide open -- just because you have a 1.5 aperture doesn't mean that you have to shoot at 1.5 all the time. And if you don't like the experience, there's nothing wrong with deciding that a longer, fast MF lens doesn't work for you, and replacing it with something else. Personally I find that my fast MF lenses are easier to shoot wide open on shorter focal lengths than on longer focal lengths, but I can have difficulty at times even at 35mm. My solution to this is that I keep both MF and AF lenses in my kit because there are times when one works better than the other.

In the end it doesn't matter if this is the wonderful 'character lens' that it's described to be. If it doesn't suit your shooting style then it doesn't suit your shooting style, and there's no reason to keep it.




Jun 10, 2024 at 07:56 AM
coralnut
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


philip_pj wrote:
...
Designers probably knew in their hearts that 75mm was a great FL prospect, some even may have wanted to push the envelope to that point. But you know - buyer resistance to anything new or outside the well-trodden path. To this day, many (probably most) M-mount users make the large jump from 50mm to 90mm.

Yet the focal length range is literally peppered with small steps from UWA all the way to 50mm, then you encounter this black hole where few makers dared to tread, until they arrive at the well-worn same old of 85mm, the staid and recognised portrait
...Show more

This lens seems to be one of the rare cases where I don't understand Philip's opinion.

I don't think there's any component of 'makers daring to tread' onto the 75mm focal length, or that anyone is 'showing off' by offering a 75mm focal length to nikon and canon users. 75mm is an intermediate focal length that is accepted by European designers, but it isn't all that different than the other lengths that have traditionally been chosen by Japanese designers. So why was 75mm chosen? Not because 75mm is unique or special --- it's more likely that the decision was made to adapt an existing 75mm lens from their catalog to allow mounting it in nikon and canon applications. Adapting an existing lens design is far cheaper than designing a new lens from scratch. I don't see anyone 'knowing in their hearts' that 75 would be a superior FL, or anyone being a 'renegade' for adopting it. Simply put, just because Leica focal length intervals don't precisely match up with the traditional Japanese focal length intervals doesn't mean there's any special dedication to artistry that comes from adapting an existing lens design to a new mount. Leveraging your investment in existing products is the cheapest way to get more product into the marketplace.




Jun 10, 2024 at 08:21 AM
Knut.
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


I may politely disagree. Since there are hardly any 75mm lenses in most brands lens lines they are hardly going to „have them in their catalog“ or adapt them „as existing lens instead of designing a new lens from scratch“.

Even in the old SLR era there was a continuum of focal lengths from ultra wide to 55mm:
15-17/18-20/21-24-28-35-40/43-50/55 and then a jump, and things went on with 85-90-100-105-120-135 …

Only Leica 75mm (and Pentax77mm) offered something in between … why?

I actually love the recently released 65mm lenses (Voigtländer, Sigma). a slightly longish normal for tighter landscape crops and jump to 100mm for my portrait needs.
18-35-65-(100)-135 spaces extremely well! 😉

24-40-75-135 also spaces extremely well.



Jun 10, 2024 at 02:30 PM
dennishy
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


I'm really excited about the 75 f/1.5. My favorite lens on the Pentax K-1 is another weird focal length - the Limited 77mm F1.8. Based on the images in this thread, I think I'd like the 75 on my Zf. I'd get it immediately if I hadn't just received the CV 50MM F2 APO!


Jun 10, 2024 at 05:58 PM
philip_pj
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Cosina has long been a fan of the 75mm lens. And so is Leica. The major makers are conservatives who stick to the 'tried and true' range of focal lengths they have made for many decades. Even Zeiss were firm advocates of 85mm lenses as the entry to short (portrait) telephotos - Dr Nasse explained that 85mm shaped the subjects' heads the best, and they have supported 85mm since or before Contarex days in the 1950s. Of course they were Europeans, but these companies were heavy influences on the emerging Japanese industry at that time.

But 75mm is far more usable if you value versatility, as indeed is 65mm. It's no coincidence that it took small makers to adopt and popularise these 'oddball' lenses, and Pentax was willing to step outside the mainstream here, albeit only with a special release lens.

I do a lot of photography in the Tibetan Cultural World and find 75mm excellent for Chinese and Tibetan peoples' head shapes, where 85mm tends to flatten them excessively. 100mm requires more stand off to compensate. 65/75 gives you an expansive AOV for landscapes as well, at a wider and less diffracted aperture.

So, if the maker gets it right you end up with an easier focus accuracy for portraits with more DOF wide open at the accepted speed of f1.5 (f1.4) with more contextual bokeh, a smoother transition (which the 75/1.5 excels at) and great sharpness at f5.6-f8.

This is all apart from the fine rendering this particular lens exhibits. I fee Cosina is floating a trial balloon here for the Nikon and Canon communities, to see the response in preparation for their next moves. Come what may, you also get a less mundane look to your images from the short tele area.



Jun 10, 2024 at 06:00 PM
buggz
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Any direct comparisons to the M versions?
I am debating which mount to get, the M mount would be more versatile, I could then enjoy it on other bodies/systems.



Jun 10, 2024 at 06:15 PM
 


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coralnut
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Philip may be the person to answer that question. I could be wrong on this, but IIRC he uses the M mount version of this lens.


Jun 10, 2024 at 09:18 PM
coralnut
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Knut. wrote:
I may politely disagree. Since there are hardly any 75mm lenses in most brands lens lines they are hardly going to „have them in their catalog“ or adapt them „as existing lens instead of designing a new lens from scratch“.


I'm sorry if I was unclear. I meant to say that Cosina had the 75mm lenses in their catalog (the M version) and that made the adaptation easier for them than designing a new 75mm lens from scratch, while most of the other lens manufacturers have stuck to the more common FL, and they would have to design a 75 from scratch. Sorry for the confusion.



Jun 10, 2024 at 09:30 PM
Sjredo
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


coralnut wrote:
I can understand your initial frustration. Moving to an extremely fast lens that almost doubles your focal length is going to lead to a difficult learning experience when it comes to manual focusing -- no matter what kind of focus confirmation assistance you may have. Moving from 40/1.2 to 75/1.5 is a lot like moving from 50/1.4 to an 85/1.4. If you're focusing wide open on a subject that's 2 m away, then you're only going to have a several cm DOF with the 40, which will cut down to only a few cm with the 75. Nailing focus wide
...Show more

This must've been one of the nicest, most thoughtful replies I've yet to see here. Thanks for taking the time coralnut!
By the way, I've just decided the lens is not for me so I returned it. The 40 1.2 is a pleasure to use, and for my style so that'll still be glued to the camera, but I really don't like to use something out of frustration regardless of what output it produces. For me photography is a hobby, and I'll keep doing as long as it brings me joy.

I'll keep waiting for Sigma's DG DN I series to maybe get the 90 or something.



Jun 11, 2024 at 06:33 AM
buggz
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Oh, and I see there is a Voigtlander Z Leica M mount CLOSE FOCUS ADAPTER to Z, on CameraQuest.
Okay, that is the one to get.



Jun 14, 2024 at 04:45 PM
philip_pj
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


I also would like to see a comparison - well, several comparisons - with this lens. I had a look and came up empty. One, the VM adapted with a high quality adapter (very important for modern lenses, like the CV one or Novoflex)) to either Sony or Nikon against the native lens for the mount. Second, the native Nikon vsn against the Nikon 85/1.8, one of the most liked of the Z lenses.

That would illustrate each of these genres of lens and would be very interesting. Best done with (i) a person and (ii) a complex and deep (near-far) natural scene, e.g. a nice garden setting.

I would not want people to believe the 75/1.5 is hard to focus for anyone used to any MF lens. It is very easy, due to (i) the crisp acquisition of very visible sharp focus at the focal plane and (ii) the rapid action focus ring, with its 90 degree rotation (I hope the N vsn is the same).

This focus speed is also due to the longer FL which is not harder but easier due to the thinner plane compared with the same aperture shorter focal length lenses, and its faster fade into bokeh. I wish my CV APOs were as easy as this 75mm. It is the fastest MF lens I have for focus acquisition using focus magnify (Sony bodies) - my long term favourite method. Unless very close focus, try focusing wide open then stop down to your taking aperture - very effective in poor light or focusing on dark subjects.

Many don't know how important exact diopter setting is for efficient and effective manual focusing, so get this right and check every now and then. Also, centre your viewing eye dead centre over the EVF. And consider a hat in bright sun or lighting. I am a hood user, and recommend them. Turn the focus ring steadily, no jerking. Don't obsess over exact focus, other factors enter the picture, like body sway and subject movement. People have been doing it for over a hundred years.

The hardest MF lenses to focus are (i) wide angles to normal with slow maximum apertures - say like a 21/3.5 or (ii) any f3.5-f4 MF zoom, as made by Zeiss or Leica. Some use peaking for these to good effect. Any of the Nikon aids also will be worth playing with, see what works best.



Jun 15, 2024 at 02:15 AM
Vento
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


buggz wrote:
Any direct comparisons to the M versions?
I am debating which mount to get, the M mount would be more versatile, I could then enjoy it on other bodies/systems.


Absolutely worth a read in this context

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/different-filter-stacks-and-what-they-mean-for-us-sony-e-nikon-z-leica-m-kolari-ut/

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/different-filter-stacks-and-what-they-mean-for-us-sony-e-nikon-z-leica-m-kolari-ut/#Voigtlander_VM_75mm_15_Nokton

Edited on Jun 15, 2024 at 03:27 AM · View previous versions



Jun 15, 2024 at 03:23 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


philip_pj wrote:
But 75mm is far more usable if you value versatility, as indeed is 65mm.


Yes!! I have several complaints about the gaps in the typical prime focal lengths, particularly the jump from 50 to 85 being huge (and 85 to 135 with no [fast aperture] 100/105 in between, if you're Canon).

If I were in charge of these things, I think I'd do: 15, 21, 28, 35, 43, 55, 70, 90, 120, 150, 180, 250.



Jun 15, 2024 at 03:23 AM
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