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New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z

  
 
Juha Kannisto
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Cosina Voigtländer already announced their new lenses under development that will be demoed at CP+.

Announcement page

There is one for Nikon Z as well: 75/1.5.








Edited on Feb 20, 2024 at 11:06 AM · View previous versions



Feb 20, 2024 at 07:58 AM
phinix
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


I was hoping for 21mm...

That one or Sony E - why they make them so huge? over 500g...



Feb 20, 2024 at 10:39 AM
Ripolini
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


phinix wrote:
I was hoping for 21mm...

That one or Sony E - why they make them so huge? over 500g...


because it's f/1.4; and the optical scheme has few compromises, considering how praised the 21/1.4 is.
I bet Voigtlander will never make a Z-mount 21/1.4 lens because they think that Nikonians would prefer the 505 g & AF 20/1.8 S ...



Feb 20, 2024 at 11:17 AM
Vento
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


I would definitely not classify this as huge for a 75mm with f/1.5.
The dimensions are slightly below those of a Z 50mm f/1.8 S.
Weight is not low, but on the one hand we have a lot of glass, on the other hand a full metal body.
The weight is therefore only slightly above that of a 75mm f/1.5 VM including VM-Z Close Focus Adapter.
It is a very fast full-frame lens, which also has its weight and dimensions as a VM version.

Personally, I would have liked to have seen a completely new design.
A patent for a CV 25/2 has existed for a few years, would be an absolute dream if highly corrected in the style of the Apo-Lanthar's.




Feb 20, 2024 at 11:21 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Vento wrote:
I would definitely not classify this as huge for a 75mm with f/1.5.
The dimensions are slightly below those of a Z 50mm f/1.8 S.
Weight is not low, but on the one hand we have a lot of glass, on the other hand a full metal body.
The weight is therefore only slightly above that of a 75mm f/1.5 VM including VM-Z Close Focus Adapter.
It is a very fast full-frame lens, which also has its weight and dimensions as a VM version.

Personally, I would have liked to have seen a completely new design.
A patent for a CV 25/2 has existed for a
...Show more

To keep the weight in context, the Zeiss Loxia 85 f/2.4 weighs 594g, so this is a lens almost a stop and a half faster than that lens, yet weighs less. There are starting to be a nice set of lenses available for Nikon Z camera from Voigtlanders including now:

15 f/4.5
28 f/2.8 (this is F mount but easily adaptable with an FTZ)
35 f/2.0 APO-Lanthar
40 f/1.2
40 f/2.0 (this is F mount but easily adaptable with an FTZ)
50 f/1.0
50 f/2.0 APO-Lanthar
55 f/1.2 (this is F mount but easily adaptable with an FTZ)
58 f/1.2 (this is F mount but easily adaptable with an FTZ)
65 f/2.0 APO-Lanthar Macro
75 f/1.5
90 f/2.8 APO-Skopar (this is F mount but easily adaptable with an FTZ)

There is on obvious gap between 15mm and 35mm for native Z mount. It will be interesting to see what if any lenses CV makes to fill that gap. Obvious candidates in a 21 f/1.4 (which is available in Sony E mount), a 21 f/3.5 (which is also available in Sony E mount), a 28 f/1.5 (which is just recently available in Leica M mount) a 28 f/2 (which is available in Leica M mount) and a 28 f/2.8 (which is also available in Leica M mount). I don't know what 28mm if any they would develop, but I don't expect more than 1. I would expect 1 or 2 lenses to come out per year, so it will be awhile before that gap is filled, and there are APS-C lenses that they could develop as well and I wouldn't expect more than 2 a year including those APS-C lenses.

Other obvious candidate lenses for Nikon Z mount include:

10 f/5.6 (which is available in Sony E mount)
35 f/1.2 (which is available in Sony E mount, but might never come out as it is close to the 40 f/1.2 that is already available)
35 f/1.5 (which is available in Leica M mount)
35 f/1.4 classic (which is available in Sony E mount)
50 f/1.5 (two optical version of which are available in Leica M mount)
50 f/3.5 APO-Lanthar (that just was announced in Leica M mount)
90 f/2.8 APO-Skopar (this is available in Leica M and Nikon F mount)
110 f/2.5 APO-Lanthar (that is available in Sony E-mount)

All in all I would expect over the next few years to get some sort of 21mm, some sort of 28mm, another 35mm, perhaps another 50mm, maybe a 10mm, and maybe a 110mm life size Macro from Cosina Voigtlander and they might even remake the 180 f/4 APO-Lanthar from the past, but I doubt we will get all of that and with CV it is super hard to predict what they will actually do, so all of my guesses could be totally off base.

Edited on Feb 21, 2024 at 02:17 PM · View previous versions



Feb 21, 2024 at 08:51 AM
Edward Teller
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Tastes vary, but in terms of results, this is likely my favorite Voigtlander ZM lens, and one of my favorite lenses from any manufacturer, at any focal length. Already happily using the VM version adapted to Nikon Z bodies, in addition to using it on Leica M bodies. A dedicated Nikon version, what’s not to like?


Feb 21, 2024 at 10:19 AM
1bwana1
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


I don't find the lens too large or heavy even on a Leica M body. On the larger Nikon ZF body I am confident that it will balance very well.

The rendering and colors from this lens are really wonderful. It will make a great addition to the Z lens ecosystem.





Leica M10-P, VM 75mm f/1.5 Nokton




Feb 21, 2024 at 10:59 AM
Juha Kannisto
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Product introduction video (in Japanese):




Feb 21, 2024 at 09:44 PM
phinix
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Ripolini wrote:
because it's f/1.4; and the optical scheme has few compromises, considering how praised the 21/1.4 is.
I bet Voigtlander will never make a Z-mount 21/1.4 lens because they think that Nikonians would prefer the 505 g & AF 20/1.8 S ...


By huge I meant bigger than VM equivalent. If VM lens works on Z or E adapted, then why not make same size with "merged" different mounting ring? Flange difference etc in mind of course.



Feb 22, 2024 at 01:54 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


phinix wrote:
By huge I meant bigger than VM equivalent. If VM lens works on Z or E adapted, then why not make same size with "merged" different mounting ring? Flange difference etc in mind of course.


It may be helpful to adjust the spacing of the elements to minimize the effect of sensor glass thickness of each particular mount. I have used the VM 75 f/1.5 on both my Nikon Z7 and my Leica M10 and it performs a little better on the M10. I suspect they tweaked the design to optimize the performance for the mount. Then you also get things like EXIF data and focus confirmation that you will not get with an adapted M mount lens.



Feb 22, 2024 at 02:31 PM
 


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philip_pj
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


The conundrum is that middle weight lenses have little headroom when the weight is amplified with the new mount makeovers - so a 385 gram VM 75/1.5 plus Novoflex adapter gives way to a 530 gram lens. The extra 38% is unwelcome in such a lens because it pushes it deep into middle weight territory, and it sours a prospective purchase for weight-conscious photographers.

It might look like significant added weight for very little gain. You do get a knurled focus ring even though it is too close to the aperture ring for gloved hands, plus a 62mm filter thread (up from 58mm), and the niceties mentioned above. Maybe a screw in hood, I did not check.

I'd have to see carefully controlled VM/VZ comparisons in performance on a Z camera to feel that the change is what most users might regard as 'gains'. A similar case exists for the 50/1. It went from 484g to 598g, from just about the limit to a little too heavy.

The confused situation is a result of each Voigtlander lens's provenance. The 50/2 APO Z is just 20% heavier than the equivalent VM (347g -vs- 288g) and it's clearly a better lens, according to Cosina. This is because it was made for Sony first, then choked down to suit Leica aesthetics, VF requirements and user preferences. And to be a closer match for the M APO competing with it for sales.

The backdrop is that longer focal length lenses suffer far less from cross-mount adapting than lenses wider than 50mm. M lenses are ideal for this purpose because the adapter essentially 'disappears', being both light (35g) and thin (just 10mm difference in FFD). You literally have no situational awareness of it being there at the back of the lens.

I feel it's a great shame Cosina have done this poorly in the factory conversion exercise. Just stop and ponder this: imagine if they had put their resources into new lenses designed specifically at FE/Z/RF even at the same weight and size as this converted 75/1.5 lens, but at 90-100mm?

An example: Sony's great new GM 50/1.4 weighs less than this Z 75/1.5 (516g) and is a very complete design - 14 elements in 11 groups, with loads of asph surfaces. And it has excellent AF.

So it rankles that Cosina are so frugal with their M lenses' dimensions but do not show the same respect for their EVF camera customers. Sony began the EVF camera revolution in large part to met the pent up demand for small light cameras and lenses.

What is best and was first for Leica is what you will get here, plus a hefty (near 40%) weight penalty for simply adding electronic signalling and finishing the cosmetics so you think it was made for your camera. You can see where their heart is here. The new Z 75/1.5 is heavier than every one of their VM lenses. The M users would raise a loud chorus of opposition if Cosina tried to foist a 530 gram on them.

Luckily, Fred usually tests their better new VM lenses on a Sony body, so we do know what works and what does not, and why. Even then, people are using the 50/1 and other VMs on Sony bodies, because their particular photography does not require equality in edge performance and they like the deal outlined above for adapting VM lenses.

I'd be surprised if many such users swap to a much heavier converted design lens to chase the chimera of the last 1-2 percent of edge performance, in portrait lenses that have subjects centrally placed much of the time in any case. And whose outer frames are filled with gorgeous bokeh much of the time.



Feb 22, 2024 at 04:55 PM
AcuteShadows
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


philip_pj wrote:
The conundrum is that middle weight lenses have little headroom when the weight is amplified with the new mount makeovers - so a 385 gram VM 75/1.5 plus Novoflex adapter gives way to a 530 gram lens. The extra 38% is unwelcome in such a lens because it pushes it deep into middle weight territory, and it sours a prospective purchase for weight-conscious photographers.

It might look like significant added weight for very little gain. You do get a knurled focus ring even though it is too close to the aperture ring for gloved hands, plus a 62mm filter thread
...Show more

Smaller Z mount lenses would mean bringing the exit pupil closer to sensor plane, which results in more light rays not hitting the sensor perpendicularly (or close to that), causing chromatic aberrations. Thus, unless you do all that stuff that makes Leica lenses (and Leica sensors) so expensive, you are better off making lenses somewhat longer in order to accomodate a smaller flange distance.



Feb 23, 2024 at 03:47 AM
AcuteShadows
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Steve Spencer wrote:
It may be helpful to adjust the spacing of the elements to minimize the effect of sensor glass thickness of each particular mount. I have used the VM 75 f/1.5 on both my Nikon Z7 and my Leica M10 and it performs a little better on the M10. I suspect they tweaked the design to optimize the performance for the mount. Then you also get things like EXIF data and focus confirmation that you will not get with an adapted M mount lens.


That could be solely due to the Leica sensor handling non-perpendicular rays better than the Nikon sensor. It's not necessarily related to sensor thickness or whether the optical model of the lens takes the sensor glass into account.



Feb 23, 2024 at 03:49 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


AcuteShadows wrote:
That could be solely due to the Leica sensor handling non-perpendicular rays better than the Nikon sensor. It's not necessarily related to sensor thickness or whether the optical model of the lens takes the sensor glass into account.


I think you are right it could just be differences in how the Leica sensor handles those non-perpendicular rays (perhaps because of micro lenses), but it may be sensor glass thickness too. We just don't know but there is a distinct possibility that the RF/Z/E versions of this lens have at least a little better performance than an adapted VM would and you will get the advantage of EXIF data with all the mirrorless versions and focus confirmation with the RF and Z mount versions, and 5 axis IBIS with the E mount version.



Feb 23, 2024 at 07:09 AM
AcuteShadows
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Steve Spencer wrote:
I think you are right it could just be differences in how the Leica sensor handles those non-perpendicular rays (perhaps because of micro lenses), but it may be sensor glass thickness too. We just don't know but there is a distinct possibility that the RF/Z/E versions of this lens have at least a little better performance than an adapted VM would and you will get the advantage of EXIF data with all the mirrorless versions and focus confirmation with the RF and Z mount versions, and 5 axis IBIS with the E mount version.


If it's due to sensor glass, then the main effect would be softness, also in the center, at wide apertures. If it's microlens design, then the main problem would likely be color drift towards the periphery.



Feb 23, 2024 at 09:26 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


AcuteShadows wrote:
If it's due to sensor glass, then the main effect would be softness, also in the center, at wide apertures. If it's microlens design, then the main problem would likely be color drift towards the periphery.


I don't think that is true. Sensor glass thickness affects the periphery more than the center and at f/1.5 would hardly affect the center of the image at all, but at the periphery you will see increased field curvature and astigmatism. If you google, there are a couple of nice articles from a lens designer that were created for lens rentals blog that describe the optical reasons for the greater effect of sensor glass thickness on the periphery than in the center and how this effect varies with exit pupil distance. Here is a link to the last of the articles that includes a summary:

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/07/sensor-stack-thickness-part-iii-the-summary/



Feb 23, 2024 at 10:41 AM
AcuteShadows
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Steve Spencer wrote:
I don't think that is true. Sensor glass thickness affects the periphery more than the center and at f/1.5 would hardly affect the center of the image at all, but at the periphery you will see increased field curvature and astigmatism. If you google, there are a couple of nice articles from a lens designer that were created for lens rentals blog that describe the optical reasons for the greater effect of sensor glass thickness on the periphery than in the center and how this effect varies with exit pupil distance. Here is a link to the last of
...Show more

Yes, it affects the periphery more than the center. However, if, at sufficiently wide apertures, you do see an effect *also* in the center (where the chief ray is hitting the sensor perpendicularly, but not the other rays in the light cone), then that is most likely due to sensor glass thickness.

If the effect were solely due to microlenses, to my understanding, we would see color drift, but not softness - as microlenses can modify the light within a pixel, but do not affect adjacent pixels.

In most cases, both effects are at play, so it would be often difficult to distinguish both effects.



Feb 23, 2024 at 01:29 PM
Juha Kannisto
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Today Cosina announced this Nikon Z-mount version of the 75/1.5 officially for May release (specific date not announced yet):

https://www.cosina.co.jp/news/%e3%83%95%e3%82%a9%e3%82%af%e3%83%88%e3%83%ac%e3%83%b3%e3%83%80%e3%83%bcnokton-75mm-f1-5-aspherical-z-mount-%e7%99%ba%e5%a3%b2/

English product page:
https://www.cosina.co.jp/voigtlander/en/z-mount/nokton-75mm-f1-5-aspherical/

Japanese product page:
https://www.cosina.co.jp/voigtlander/z-mount/nokton-75mm-f1-5-aspherical/

Map Camera pre-order page:
https://www.mapcamera.com/item/4530076235106

Map Camera's price is 124201 JPY (including 10% tax), exactly same as with the Canon RF version that is getting released on 4/26.



Apr 15, 2024 at 01:07 AM
Knut.
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


philip_pj wrote:
I feel it's a great shame Cosina have done this poorly in the factory conversion exercise. Just stop and ponder this: imagine if they had put their resources into new lenses designed specifically at FE/Z/RF even at the same weight and size as this converted 75/1.5 lens, but at 90-100mm?



So it rankles that Cosina are so frugal with their M lenses' dimensions but do not show the same respect for their EVF camera customers. Sony began the EVF camera revolution in large part to met the pent up demand for small light cameras and lenses.



My impression is, that Sigma has jumped into this void Voigtländer ignored and started to fill these gaps with their i-series lenses. The 90/2.8 and 24/2.0 are two examples that do not really have any competition from Sony or Voigtländer (low weight, resonable to excellent performance, good manual focus feel …)

To me lenses in the 300 to 400g region occupy a high-performance sweet spot. I find it increasingly cumbersome to handle heavier lenses (especially when hiking). Well spaced a three lens setup can get you very far.



Apr 15, 2024 at 03:55 AM
Ripolini
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · New Cosina Voigtländer 75/1.5 development announcement for Nikon Z


Juha Kannisto wrote:
Today Cosina announced this Nikon Z-mount version of the 75/1.5 officially for May release (specific date not announced yet):
...
Map Camera's price is 124201 JPY (including 10% tax), exactly same as with the Canon RF version that is getting released on 4/26.


It would be interesting to see if the lens performs similarly or not to the adapted VM version.
I bet they agreed with Nikon to not make the f/1.9 version to not "disturb" Z 85/1.8 sales ...



Apr 15, 2024 at 11:37 AM
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