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Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF

  
 
arbitrage
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


cliffWQJ wrote:
I don't think 300 f/2.8 with a 2x Teleconverter Lens could shorter than 600pf.

FE300f2.8GM 265mm
2x Teleconverter 42.7mm
600pf 278mm

also WEIGHT

A1 737g
328GM Without tripod mount 1470g
Tc-2x 207g
2414g

Z8 910g
600pf Without tripod mount 1390g
2300g


The Sony 2xTC is 26mm actual length when mounted. the 42.7 includes the mounts and big protrusion that goes into the lens.
So it would be 287mm vs 278mm. 9mm difference. Not sure what the Nikon hood length is. Sony hood is 93mm long.

Not sure about the weights. B&H lists both lenses at 1470g but are you saying Sony lists without foot and Nikon lists with foot??



Mar 01, 2024 at 09:21 AM
molson
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


arbitrage wrote:
The Sony 2xTC is 26mm actual length when mounted. the 42.7 includes the mounts and big protrusion that goes into the lens.
So it would be 287mm vs 278mm. 9mm difference. Not sure what the hood lengths are though.

Not sure about the weights. B&H lists both lenses at 1470g but are you saying Sony lists without foot and Nikon lists with foot??


Nikon advertises the4 600PF at 1390g, which is with no caps, no hood, and no tripod foot.



Mar 01, 2024 at 09:26 AM
arbitrage
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


molson wrote:
Nikon advertises the4 600PF at 1390g, which is with no caps, no hood, and no tripod foot.


Ah okay. And Sony at 1470 is without all that stuff also?



Mar 01, 2024 at 09:28 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


cliffWQJ wrote:
I don't think 300 f/2.8 with a 2x Teleconverter Lens could shorter than 600pf.

FE300f2.8GM 265mm
2x Teleconverter 42.7mm
600pf 278mm

also WEIGHT

A1 737g
328GM Without tripod mount 1470g
Tc-2x 207g
2414g

Z8 910g
600pf Without tripod mount 1390g
2300g


I think any way you figure it they are pretty close in length and weight making them fairly comparable.



Mar 01, 2024 at 09:30 AM
arbitrage
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


Steve Spencer wrote:
I think any way you figure it they are pretty close in length and weight making them fairly comparable.


Agreed...they are very, very close in both categories. I think one reason many of us are cross shopping them for a smaller/lighter option over the big 400/600 primes.



Mar 01, 2024 at 09:34 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


arbitrage wrote:
Ah okay. And Sony at 1470 is without all that stuff also?


Sony's website specifies 1470g without the tripod foot, so probably without the hood and caps too, but it is hard to know for sure.

https://electronics.sony.com/imaging/lenses/all-e-mount/p/sel300f28gm



Mar 01, 2024 at 09:35 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


arbitrage wrote:
Agreed...they are very, very close in both categories. I think one reason many of us are cross shopping them for a smaller/lighter option over the big 400/600 primes.


I think the bigger issue is whether the 2X TC affects focussing, which it might well do but that will take actual testing and isn't something you can get from comparing specifications.



Mar 01, 2024 at 09:39 AM
molson
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


arbitrage wrote:
Ah okay. And Sony at 1470 is without all that stuff also?


As far as I know, all manufacturers list their lens weights with absolutely nothing attached, which seldom reflects the actual weight in your camera bag.

So far, one of the worst offenders I've owned is the Nikon Z 180-600, which is listed at a svelte 1955g but actually weighs 2325g.



Mar 01, 2024 at 09:44 AM
billsnature
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


arbitrage wrote:
Glad you are liking it. Not surprised it is better than the 200-600. If it wasn't then that would be a big disappointment.
Do you prefer the Z8 over the A1 or is it mostly the lens?
I still have this Z8/600PF combo on my short list for a lightweight setup. Having a hard time deciding after being blown away by the 300GM/TCs when I got to shoot it last weekend.
I've got to figure out a way to try that combo soon.


What I don't like about the Z8 is the weight. It is significantly heavier than A1. That is about the only thing I don't like. The size is a plus minus as it feels great in the hand but takes more space in the case. Only other untested concern is ability to do hummingbirds without mechanical shutter. Rolling shutter should be less of issue than A1, but could still be an issue and no fix by going to mechanical shutter.

There are a ton of things to like!!!! CFast B is awesome and cheap. $179 for a 512 GB Prograde card. Reduced image size EVF for glasses wearer is fantastic. EVF is very nice about same as A1 functionally. Target acquisition is better than A1 for static birds with background. Like .05 seconds vs 5 minutes of A1 hunting. The A7R V would be a better comparison. That is also way better than A1 for acquisition. The full time DMF plus tracking of Nikon is better than what you get with Sony 200-600 and is focus memory on lens is great (that would exist on GM but not 200-600).

The manual focus magnification on Z8 is way better than Sony. Doing MF with Nikon 24-120 vs Sony lenses on A1 you get higher magnification and seeming faster EVF feedback. Even using Sony lenses on Z8 with Megadap, you can get much more precise MF on Z8. This would be huge for astro work.

20 FPS is fine for me, and buffer depth is great. Other than weight, and familiarity of controls I see no functional advantages of the A1 (I don't do video so don't attack me there).

It might be different with a 600GM vs 200-600, in terms of acquisition and functionality but that is a bridge too far. If Sony made a500mm f4 I doubt I would consider Nikon system, but they don't. 600mm GM is too big and heavy for my needs/wants and a 300mm with 2X TC welded to it has not worked for me historically and won't in the future. In Nikon/Canon in past I owned a 500mm f4 for travel and a 600mm f4 for tripod BIF work on gimbal. Today the Nikon 600 f6.3 and 800 6.3 might be a better and lighter pairing.

Cost is another major factor. Z8 plus 1.4X and a 600mm f6.3 lists for $9100. Throw in a 800mm f6.3 and you are at $15,100 In Sony an A1 plus 600GM plus a 1.4X TC and you are at $20,000. And I still don't have a light hiking lens unless I add another $6000 for 300mm GM and $500 for 2X TC. At $26,500 vs $15,100 and always needing to count on a TC, I just don't see that as a winner. I shoot largely with backgrounds that blur at f6.3 (see examples above). If you don't and need f4 you may see it differently and I respect that, but Z8 and 600/800PF look awesome to me.

Z8 plus 600mm 6.3 and 800mm 6.3 would cost $14,600 list. Sony A1 plus 600GM plus 1.4X TC is about $20,000 list



Mar 01, 2024 at 12:14 PM
bs kite
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


To bills nature:

interesting post you have above.

I wonder if you would explain what is meant by your "hummingbirds without mechanical shutter" sentence.

Last season (July, August, Sept 2023) I did a lot of hummingbird, hb hawkmoth stills and videos on a tripod at my flower garden. It's a blast!

As far as a light hiking lens the 500PF is all of that.

I have the Z8 (still learning it ), the 500PF and a couple of other f-mounts... so far

Robert

Edited on Mar 01, 2024 at 12:43 PM · View previous versions



Mar 01, 2024 at 12:39 PM
 


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RoamingScott
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


Hummingbird wings are just fine without any noticeable tearing or warping on the Z8/Z9.


Mar 01, 2024 at 12:39 PM
molson
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


billsnature wrote:
Only other untested concern is ability to do hummingbirds without mechanical shutter. Rolling shutter should be less of issue than A1, but could still be an issue and no fix by going to mechanical shutter.


I think the Z8 does just fine for hummingbirds, but for the same subjects the A7R V is just about unusable with the electronic shutter.




  NIKON Z 8    NIKKOR Z 400mm f/4.5 VR S lens    400mm    f/4.5    1/400s    3600 ISO    0.0 EV  






  ILCE-7RM5    FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS lens    600mm    f/6.3    1/400s    6400 ISO    0.0 EV  




Mar 01, 2024 at 12:57 PM
ilkka_nissila
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


molson wrote:
As far as I know, all manufacturers list their lens weights with absolutely nothing attached, which seldom reflects the actual weight in your camera bag.

So far, one of the worst offenders I've owned is the Nikon Z 180-600, which is listed at a svelte 1955g but actually weighs 2325g.


When the foot or collar is meant to be user-removable, Nikon does list both weights (with and without foot/collar) in their specifications on the Nikon Imaging web site. However, the hood, caps, and case are not included in that weight I believe.



Mar 01, 2024 at 01:42 PM
ChrisMak
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


billsnature wrote:
What I don't like about the Z8 is the weight. It is significantly heavier than A1. That is about the only thing I don't like. The size is a plus minus as it feels great in the hand but takes more space in the case. Only other untested concern is ability to do hummingbirds without mechanical shutter. Rolling shutter should be less of issue than A1, but could still be an issue and no fix by going to mechanical shutter.

There are a ton of things to like!!!! CFast B is awesome and cheap. $179 for a 512 GB Prograde card.
...Show more

Nikon Z8 with 600pf and 800pf is my dreamed Nikon set-up.



Mar 01, 2024 at 02:09 PM
arbitrage
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


molson wrote:
I think the Z8 does just fine for hummingbirds, but for the same subjects the A7R V is just about unusable with the electronic shutter.


Just put it in mechanical. You can't even get full 10FPS in ES on the A7RV.



Mar 01, 2024 at 05:33 PM
molson
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


arbitrage wrote:
Just put it in mechanical. You can't even get full 10FPS in ES on the A7RV.



I'm afraid of deafening the little birds....



Mar 01, 2024 at 05:36 PM
arbitrage
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


billsnature wrote:
What I don't like about the Z8 is the weight. It is significantly heavier than A1. That is about the only thing I don't like. The size is a plus minus as it feels great in the hand but takes more space in the case. Only other untested concern is ability to do hummingbirds without mechanical shutter. Rolling shutter should be less of issue than A1, but could still be an issue and no fix by going to mechanical shutter.

There are a ton of things to like!!!! CFast B is awesome and cheap. $179 for a 512 GB Prograde card.
...Show more

Thanks for the detailed impressions.
Hummer wings on Z8 will be no problem. Z8 scans just slightly faster (1/270s vs 1/260s) than A1 so if A1 has been okay for you, Z8 will be fine.



Mar 01, 2024 at 05:42 PM
arbitrage
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


molson wrote:
I'm afraid of deafening the little birds....


Good point. Just another reason I sold the A7RV 2 weeks after getting one.



Mar 01, 2024 at 05:43 PM
arbitrage
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


Steve Spencer wrote:
I think the bigger issue is whether the 2X TC affects focussing, which it might well do but that will take actual testing and isn't something you can get from comparing specifications.


I shot an entire morning of BIF this past Saturday in gloomy conditions with the 300GM/2xTC. Including swallows. I'm satisfied with how the 300GM takes the 2xTC (and I haven't used my 2xTC on my 400GM or 600GM in well over a year as I hate it on those lenses). That said, I'd assume the 600PF bare lens will be better than 300GM/2x for critical sharpness and max AF hit rate. But the 300GM has the plus of being a 300 and 420 lens.




  ILCE-1    FE 300mm F2.8 GM OSS + 2X Teleconverter lens    600mm    f/5.6    1/3200s    3200 ISO    0.0 EV  






  ILCE-1    FE 300mm F2.8 GM OSS + 2X Teleconverter lens    600mm    f/5.6    1/1600s    3200 ISO    0.0 EV  






  ILCE-1    FE 300mm F2.8 GM OSS + 1.4X Teleconverter lens    420mm    f/4.0    1/2000s    1600 ISO    0.0 EV  






  ILCE-1    FE 300mm F2.8 GM OSS lens    300mm    f/2.8    1/3200s    1000 ISO    0.0 EV  




Mar 01, 2024 at 06:02 PM
molson
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Nikon Z8 with 600 PF vs Sony A1 200-600 or 600 GM for Birds and BIF


arbitrage wrote:
Good point. Just another reason I sold the A7RV 2 weeks after getting one.



I bought my wife an EOS R7... the mechanical shutter on that camera sounds like someone banging two empty sardine tins together.



Mar 01, 2024 at 06:09 PM
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