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Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

retrofocus
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

Watched the episode linked below from RedDotForum on YouTube. It is a nice overview of Leica 50/1.4 Summilux M lenses produced including some special versions. Towards the end, they showed some photo examples revealing differences between specific lens versions especially in bokeh.

As usual in RedDotForum episodes, pricing details are not mentioned nor discussed. Owning several 50 mm in LTM and M-mount - for example the mentioned Leitz 50/1.5 Summarit lens and a newer Leica pre-ASPH 50/2.0 Summicron lens - I wonder if it is still worth to add any standard (no special version) 50/1.4 Summilux to the portfolio. Yes, the built and optical performance are excellent, but how about competitive versions which were released in recent years, for example the CV 50/1.2 or 50/1.0 versions just to name two? Any thoughts? Vintage having the edge over modern lens versions or vice-versa?

Feb 13, 2024 at 08:48 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

It depends on how much you weigh price/cost into however you determine if it's 'worth it.'

Feb 13, 2024 at 11:13 AM

RustyRus
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

Yes-

I don’t regret my purchase of the 50 Lux even with other options on the market- I would make the same decision today. The pictures I get from it are magical - Tongue and check with the magical but to me, it’s the best 50 1.4 on the planet. The handling and the rendering are without equal.

That is 100% my opinion- I give zero F’s about mid zone sharpness, mid frame dip, micro tonal contrast of equal parts to the 5th degree of the left edge of the frame.

It goes on my camera, I love using it, I love the images I get from it.

I hope people get that feeling for whatever lens they put on their camera and go shoot with.

Lots of good opinions and photos here

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1845003

Edited on Feb 13, 2024 at 11:30 AM · View previous versions

Feb 13, 2024 at 11:21 AM

retrofocus
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

rscheffler wrote:
It depends on how much you weigh price/cost into however you determine if it's 'worth it.'

The video clarifies well the differences in "look" between the different Leica 50 Summilux M versions. Where I lack information is how does any of these looks compare to for example some faster CV or TTArtisan 50 mm lenses out there. There are significant price differences especially when comparing to other brands - my question is if there is a very similar look for example between the CV 50/1.0 at f/1.4 compared to the Leica 50/1.4 Summilux version II (just one example)? This kind of information is not readily available.

Feb 13, 2024 at 11:24 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

You should read some of Bastian's 50mm reviews over at Phillip Reeve's site.

I believe a couple of the Chinese 50s have similar look to the Lux.

As discussed in the other recent 50 Lux thread, the current ASPH version is not a perfect lens. For example the mid zone drop in sharpness and tendency to flare. But it also has many strengths. One of which I think is its overall balance of strengths and weaknesses in a relatively compact package for an f/1.4 lens. Central sharpness, color, good LoCA/fringing control (better than most comparable non-APO fast lenses), bokeh and overall 'character/rendering.'

I believe the VM 50/1.2 competes very favorably in most of these points. Where it might give up a bit to the Lux is size and wider aperture near distance sharpness due to its non-FLE design. The VM 50/1.0 adds FLE and is sharper than the 1.2 at near distances, but it's again an even larger lens than the Lux and has its own set of character/rendering qualities. The current VM 50/1.5 Nokton seems to be the closest alignment to the Lux ASPH. You should check Fred's reviews. In maybe the 50/1.0 review he compared it against other fast 50s. And somewhere there's comparison of the Lux ASPH against the VM 50/1.2, IIRC.

Whatever the case, I have around 10 ~50mm lenses in M/LTM mount but it's the 50 Lux ASPH that has remained by go-to 50 for over 10 years. I just really like the overall 'look' of the images from it, without pixel-peeping. But I am also a Sonnar fan, for similar reasons.

Feb 13, 2024 at 11:29 AM

retrofocus
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

RustyRus wrote:
Yes-

I don’t regret my purchase of the 50 Lux even with other options on the market- I would make the same decision today. The pictures I get from it are magical - Tongue and check with the magical but to me, it’s the best 50 1.4 on the planet. The handling and the rendering are without equal.

That is 100% my opinion- I give zero F’s about mid zone sharpness, mid frame dip, micro tonal contrast of equal parts to the 5th degree of the left edge of the frame.

It goes on my camera, I love using it,...Show more →

Which lens version do you have?

Feb 13, 2024 at 11:33 AM

ocean2059
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

I have used several M mount 50 lenses. Overall, I consider the Leica Summilux 50 ASPH as the best 50 in terms of speed, size, optical performance, and user interface. Compared with other (CV/Zeiss) 50 fast lenses, I still prefer the color rendering from the Summilux 50 ASPH.

Feb 13, 2024 at 11:38 AM

retrofocus
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

rscheffler wrote:
You should read some of Bastian's 50mm reviews over at Phillip Reeve's site.

I believe a couple of the Chinese 50s have similar look to the Lux.

As discussed in the other recent 50 Lux thread, the current ASPH version is not a perfect lens. For example the mid zone drop in sharpness and tendency to flare. But it also has many strengths. One of which I think is its overall balance of strengths and weaknesses in a relatively compact package for an f/1.4 lens. Central sharpness, color, good LoCA/fringing control (better than most comparable non-APO fast lenses), bokeh and overall...Show more →

Thanks for the details! I have seen the mentioned lens tests, but they are all reviewing the lens itself or to a close counterpart like CV 50/1.2 vs. CV 50/1.0. Super hard to find side-by-side information between other brand faster 50 mm lenses with Leica 50 mm Summilux lens versions. I wish someone would do a systematic test with each 50 mm Summilux lens version versus several selected faster 50 mm Voigtlander lenses. I haven't seen something even close.

Feb 13, 2024 at 11:39 AM

RustyRus
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

retrofocus wrote:
Which lens version do you have?

I have owned both versions of the ASPH-

If I did it again, I would never have sold the ASPH ver 1- To me identical lenses with beautiful draws on both. I like the CF on occasion but not enough for the money I lost to upgrade.

Especially the used prices of the ASPH 1- Its a relative bargain IMO.

Feb 13, 2024 at 11:39 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

rscheffler wrote:
You should read some of Bastian's 50mm reviews over at Phillip Reeve's site.

I believe a couple of the Chinese 50s have similar look to the Lux.

As discussed in the other recent 50 Lux thread, the current ASPH version is not a perfect lens. For example the mid zone drop in sharpness and tendency to flare. But it also has many strengths. One of which I think is its overall balance of strengths and weaknesses in a relatively compact package for an f/1.4 lens. Central sharpness, color, good LoCA/fringing control (better than most comparable non-APO fast lenses), bokeh and overall...Show more →
retrofocus wrote:
Thanks for the details! I have seen the mentioned lens tests, but they are all reviewing the lens itself or to a close counterpart like CV 50/1.2 vs. CV 50/1.0. Super hard to find side-by-side information between other brand faster 50 mm lenses with Leica 50 mm Summilux lens versions. I wish someone would do a systematic test with each 50 mm Summilux lens version versus several selected faster 50 mm Voigtlander lenses. I haven't seen something even close.

See Fred's review of the 50/1.5 Heliar. This post begins a rendering comparison of: Voigtlander 50/1.5 Heliar vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs Zeiss 50/1.5 Sonnar vs Leica 50/1.4 Lux

Feb 13, 2024 at 11:43 AM

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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

50 is probably my favorite focal length - I currently have the Summicron and Summilux ASPH, previously had the Voigt 50 f1 and ZM 50 1.5.

I recently sold my Voigt 50 f1. I really liked the images it produced, but it felt too big on my M10 and I don’t enjoy MF as much on my SL (although it feels very well balanced in an SL). So it sat unused and I decided it had to go.

The 50 Summicron has some of my favorite rendering when circumstances align. However, its downsides (for me) more prone to focus shift and wanted something faster for indoors.

ZM 50 1.5 - really cool rendering, great size, and great for portraits, but couldn’t deal with the focus shift.

Summilux 50 is a bit of a Goldilocks lens for me - not too big, fast indoors, and the FLE allows it to do well at short distances without focus shift.

Feb 13, 2024 at 11:46 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

rscheffler wrote:
You should read some of Bastian's 50mm reviews over at Phillip Reeve's site.

I believe a couple of the Chinese 50s have similar look to the Lux.

As discussed in the other recent 50 Lux thread, the current ASPH version is not a perfect lens. For example the mid zone drop in sharpness and tendency to flare. But it also has many strengths. One of which I think is its overall balance of strengths and weaknesses in a relatively compact package for an f/1.4 lens. Central sharpness, color, good LoCA/fringing control (better than most comparable non-APO fast lenses), bokeh and overall...Show more →

I agree, Ron. It's not a perfect lens. Maybe the closest thing to perfection can be found in the SL 50/2 Cron, but it's not an f/1.4 lens and its rendering might be overly corrected. The Leica 50/1.4 SL Lux performs better than the 50/1.4 M Lux, but it's not flawless either, as the corners never become outstanding even when stopped down. And let's not forget, it's also gigantic and weighs a ton! So, there's no perfection, even with large lenses, because there's always some compromise, especially in size. I suppose the perfect lens is the one we can accept the compromises and still produces great real-world images, like the ones you posted in the other thread.

Feb 13, 2024 at 11:56 AM

serhan_
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

You can check Bastian's Summilux review where he compared to TTArtisan 50mm 1.4 Asph:
https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-leica-50mm-1-4-summilux-m-asph/#ert_pane13-0

retrofocus wrote:
The video clarifies well the differences in "look" between the different Leica 50 Summilux M versions. Where I lack information is how does any of these looks compare to for example some faster CV or TTArtisan 50 mm lenses out there. There are significant price differences especially when comparing to other brands - my question is if there is a very similar look for example between the CV 50/1.0 at f/1.4 compared to the Leica 50/1.4 Summilux version II (just one example)? This kind of information is not readily available.

Feb 13, 2024 at 01:43 PM

retrofocus
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

We are getting good info and review links summarized in this thread! Keep it going!

Feb 13, 2024 at 01:54 PM

tzhang4284
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

retrofocus wrote:
The video clarifies well the differences in "look" between the different Leica 50 Summilux M versions. Where I lack information is how does any of these looks compare to for example some faster CV or TTArtisan 50 mm lenses out there. There are significant price differences especially when comparing to other brands - my question is if there is a very similar look for example between the CV 50/1.0 at f/1.4 compared to the Leica 50/1.4 Summilux version II (just one example)? This kind of information is not readily available.

I recently purchased a used copy of the TTArtisan 50mm f1.4 to play with and compared it to my Leica 75mm APO, which is a related design to the v1 50mm f1.4 Summilux ASPH. I would say it comes very close in overall rendering and unless you're looking for differences, you would be hard pressed to find it.

The only thing I can notice is the colors of the 75mm APO is a bit better and the bokeh is subtly smoother in my test shots. I like the overall rendering of the TTArtisan much better than the Voigtlander 50mm f1.0 Nokton, which I also tried in the past. One other nitpick - the overall aesthetic of the TTArtisan lens itself is kinda ugly compared to the 75mm APO or pictures of the 50mm f1.4 v1.4.

If you're looking for a bargain summilux, it's a great deal. That said, I don't think Leica cameras and lenses are a particularly rational purchase to start with so if I didn't have my 75mm APO already, I'd probably buy a Leica 50mm f1.4 ASPH.

Feb 13, 2024 at 02:52 PM

ocean2059
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

tzhang4284 wrote:
I recently purchased a used copy of the TTArtisan 50mm f1.4 to play with and compared it to my Leica 75mm APO, which is a related design to the v1 50mm f1.4 Summilux ASPH. I would say it comes very close in overall rendering and unless you're looking for differences, you would be hard pressed to find it.

The only thing I can notice is the colors of the 75mm APO is a bit better and the bokeh is subtly smoother in my test shots. I like the overall rendering of the TTArtisan much better than the Voigtlander 50mm f1.0 Nokton,...Show more →

These are excellent points. The subtle difference in color makes Summilux 50 ASPH a better choice of 50s for my use.

Feb 13, 2024 at 03:20 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

Back in 2013 I took the 50mm lenses I had available for my M9 and did an impromptu bokeh comparison shooting some foliage in my backyard. I found the web-rez images I had posted on my blog back then, and have put them in an online gallery you can access here (and download all of them if you wish): https://postimg.cc/gallery/NqGWPvsg

Based on the file numbering I used, I'm guessing I shot a sequence of each from wide open through probably f/4 or f/5.6. These are probably somewhere on an older hard drive...

Given that this was done over 10 years ago, nothing released since then is represented, which is a considerable number of lenses, such as the VM 50/1.2, 50/1.0, current 50/1.5 Nokton, 50/1.5 Heliar, TTA, Mr. Ding, etc.

In any case, below are the wide open shots from the first set. Lenses include 50 Lux ASPH, ZM 50/2, Voigtlander 50/1.5 LTM, (very different optics from the current VM 50/1.5), Canon 50/1.4 LTM, Zeiss Opton Sonnar 50/1.5, Nikkor-SC 50/1.4 LTM, Leitz Summarit 50/1.5 and for fun, the VM 40/1.4 MC. Info is in the watermark:

I don't recall what the focus distance was for the above images, perhaps 1m. In the gallery link at top is a second set of the same scene with the camera moved back slightly farther, perhaps to achieve a focus distance of around 1.5m. And below is a third set of a difference scene:

At the time my conclusion was that the Voigtlander 50/1.5 LTM was very similar to the rendering of the 50 Lux ASPH with just a touch more bokeh outlining. Biggest difference in normal use was that the Voigltander was more likely to show purple fringing at wide apertures in high contrast transitions and it had a noticeable central sharpness sweet spot. I didn't like it much because of this sharpness falloff and that its MFD was 90cm, IIRC. The first version VM 50/1.5 was apparently the same optics but with coating improvements. The current VM 50/1.5 Nokton is a new optical design and apparently a much stronger performer (see Fred's test of it elsewhere on this board).

Edited on Feb 14, 2024 at 09:49 AM · View previous versions

Feb 13, 2024 at 03:33 PM

cbass
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

This is a very personal question based on intended use.

Are you looking for correction or character? Correction is the minimalization or absence of aberrations. Character is the effect the aberrations have on the image that are deemed appealing. What one finds appealing may not appeal to another.

The intended use will also determine which aberrations matter. If you are doing astrophotography or handheld nightscapes, then coma correction is important. Here the Summilux is worth the cost as few fast 50s do well in this category and not one is inexpensive.

If your intended use is landscapes where you are looking for excellent center to corner performance, then the summicron would be the better choice.

If you intend to shoot people and portraits, then the character and if you find it appealing is important. I bought the last Elmarit 90 reading that it was the best corrected 90 before the APO Summicron 90. Indeed, in any comparison against the Summicron 90 pre-asph it is technically superior. The problem is that I portraits I took using the Summicron pre-asph are my favorite consistently to such a degree that I don't bother using the Elmarit 90 to photograph people anymore. I find the effect the aberrations have on the image to my liking and so do others.

Personally, I look at tests or comparisons others have posted. I also find the flickr album of a particular lens and look through as many images as possible. The reason for this is the performance of a lens is complex. How does it behave in low contrast light at various apertures. What about high contrast light? How does it behave at close distances compared to infinity at various apertures. How does the bokeh change based on distance, background, and aperture. Does it falloff gradually or rapidly from the focus point? What happens as it falls from the focus point? Does the contrast decrease? How are color like reds or skin tones rendered?

Feb 14, 2024 at 12:19 AM

retrofocus
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

rscheffler wrote:
Back in 2013 I took the 50mm lenses I had available for my M9 and did an impromptu bokeh comparison shooting some foliage in my backyard. I found the web-rez images I had posted on my blog back then, and have put them in an online gallery you can access here (and download all of them if you wish): https://postimg.cc/gallery/NqGWPvsg

Based on the file numbering I used, I'm guessing I shot a sequence of each from wide open through probably f/4 or f/5.6. These are probably somewhere on an older hard drive...

Given that this was done over 10 years ago, nothing...Show more →

Fantastic test, love it! This is exactly what I hoped to see! Especially since you included some lenses which I also own, for example the Canon 50/1.4 and the Nikkor-SC 50/1.4 LTM lenses!

Feb 14, 2024 at 08:26 AM

retrofocus
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Leica 50 Summilux M Lenses - Still Worth It?

cbass wrote:
This is a very personal question based on intended use.

Are you looking for correction or character? Correction is the minimalization or absence of aberrations. Character is the effect the aberrations have on the image that are deemed appealing. What one finds appealing may not appeal to another.

I am more into character of a lens. In this case I am more curious about the background blur properties which is shown nicely in Ron's test above.

The intended use will also determine which aberrations matter. If you are doing astrophotography or handheld nightscapes, then coma correction is important. Here the Summilux is worth the cost as few fast 50s do well in this category and not one is inexpensive.

Not much into astrophotography - if I do, I have a great set of wide and ultra-wide Canon DSLR EF lenses for this job without coma.

If your intended use is landscapes where you are looking for excellent center to corner performance, then the summicron would be the better choice.

Correct, it was the main reason for me to get the 50 mm Summicron - my first Leica lens. One of my sharpest lenses.

If you intend to shoot people and portraits, then the character and if you find it appealing is important. I bought the last Elmarit 90 reading that it was the best corrected 90 before the APO Summicron 90. Indeed, in any comparison against the Summicron 90 pre-asph it is technically superior. The problem is that I portraits I took using the Summicron pre-asph are my favorite consistently to such a degree that I don't bother using the Elmarit 90 to photograph people anymore. I find the effect the aberrations have on the image to my liking and so do others.

Rarely use 90 mm FL but more often 75 mm which sometimes replaces my 50 mm FL photography. The CV 75/1.5 is a superb lens for portraits - the bit longer tele FL compared to 50 mm provides a wonderful and unique smooth background blur.

Personally, I look at tests or comparisons others have posted. I also find the flickr album of a particular lens and look through as many images as possible. The reason for this is the performance of a lens is complex. How does it behave in low contrast light at various apertures. What about high contrast light? How does it behave at close distances compared to infinity at various apertures. How does the bokeh change based on distance, background, and aperture. Does it falloff gradually or rapidly from the focus point? What happens as it falls from the focus point? Does the...Show more →

I have about 7 rangefinder M and LTM lenses in 50 mm FL but never ran an intense side-by-side comparison. I know that one of their main differences is in the background blur/bokeh (seeing the same as shown above in Ron's photos), in sharpness fall-off, vignetting wide open, and flare resistance. Actually one I really like is actually not even a f/1.4 lens - it is the Leitz 50/2.0 DR Summicron lens. Love its close focus capability with goggles attached. It is one of my favorite 50 mm rangefinder lenses. If it comes to unique bokeh, I prefer both the Canon 50/1.2 LTM and the Leitz 50/1.5 Summarit - very different but very unique in blur. For best compromise between sharpness and bokeh, my favorite is the Nikkor-SC 50/1.4 LTM lens.

Feb 14, 2024 at 08:51 AM

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