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WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure

  
 
js47
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure


I was in a rather damp Dartmoor this weekend and my WR lenses let water in past the mount sealing gasket on two separate days first with the 90 f2, and second with the 16 f1.4. It was raining, but not particularly hard and I think I did a decent job of keeping the camera and lens as dry as practical underneath my hands and umbrella.

I found water on the wrong side of the main weather sealing gasket when I got back to the hotel for the night, but luckily no water penetrated into the camera further than the exterior of the mount itself. If I had been out for longer or if I had been less careful I wonder if it might have, though.

Has anyone else had this happen?





Water droplets on the inside of the weather sealing gasket of the XF90F2







Water droplets on the mount on the inside of the weather sealing gasket after using the XF16F1.4





JakeStarrPhotography.com

The shots may have been worth the risk here is a SOOC JPEG.

  X-T3    XF90mmF2 R LM WR lens    90mm    f/16.0    1/1s    160 ISO    -0.3 EV  




Feb 12, 2024 at 05:22 AM
BPsmith511
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure


Is your mount perhaps bent or damaged? In the photo it seems to have quite a different gap between it and the body on the side compared to the bottom of the camera, but it may just be the angle of the photo.


Feb 12, 2024 at 06:40 AM
js47
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure


BPsmith511 wrote:
Is your mount perhaps bent or damaged? In the photo it seems to have quite a different gap between it and the body on the side compared to the bottom of the camera, but it may just be the angle of the photo.


I think it is only the angle of the photo coupled with suboptimal lighting. I've just inspected the mount thoroughly and it is completely flat. All lenses mount up flush with no gaps anywhere and no wobble. Good thought though, I hadn't considered checking that.



Feb 12, 2024 at 07:01 AM
jeffbuzz
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure


Are you sure it's not condensation due to temperature changes?

How old are the lenses? All there any tears, cracks or pieces of the soft seals missing? I've seen that before on older lenses. All soft rubbers will need replacement eventually.



Feb 12, 2024 at 10:48 AM
wsheldon
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure


Any chance the penetration happened when unmounting? That's always been a concern for me when shooting in wet weather. I tend to use a zoom (e.g. 16-55) and avoid lens changes until the gear is fully dry in case water that's collected around the seals externally spreads around when rotating and removing the lens.


Feb 12, 2024 at 11:07 AM
BeatX
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure




js47 wrote:
I was in a rather damp Dartmoor this weekend and my WR lenses let water in past the mount sealing gasket on two separate days first with the 90 f2, and second with the 16 f1.4. It was raining, but not particularly hard and I think I did a decent job of keeping the camera and lens as dry as practical underneath my hands and umbrella.

I found water on the wrong side of the main weather sealing gasket when I got back to the hotel for the night, but luckily no water penetrated into the camera further than
...Show more

Yes, it happened to me also with XF 16/1.4 during vacations. Sea wave partially flashed me, while I was having my X-S10 + XF 16/1.4 with me. Salt water gets beyond sealing gasket, inside the mount.
Thankfully it's stops there, water didn't drop into the sensor.

So much of Fuji so called "weather sealing"..
Since then, I'm treating all my Fuji gear, as a toys - without WR, not a professional gear protected against water or moisture.



Feb 12, 2024 at 02:51 PM
js47
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure


jeffbuzz wrote:
Are you sure it's not condensation due to temperature changes?

How old are the lenses? All there any tears, cracks or pieces of the soft seals missing? I've seen that before on older lenses. All soft rubbers will need replacement eventually.


I don't think it was due to temperature change as it was pretty warm outside (in the 50s) and the hotel room was only in the 60s at that time. Plus if that were the case wouldn't I have seen condensation on other surfaces as well? For example, on other parts of the body, the RRS L-bracket, other parts of the lens, or even on the sensor? I exclusively observed moisture on the lens mounting surfaces.

My XF16f1.4 was produced in the second quarter of 2015 and my XF90f2 was produced in the fourth quarter of 2019. The sealing gaskets feel equally supple to my touch though and there are no tears or any other visible imperfections.


wsheldon wrote:
Any chance the penetration happened when unmounting? That's always been a concern for me when shooting in wet weather. I tend to use a zoom (e.g. 16-55) and avoid lens changes until the gear is fully dry in case water that's collected around the seals externally spreads around when rotating and removing the lens.


This could very well be the answer, though I was careful to make sure the mounting area was wiped dry before taking the lens off. I suppose I could have accidentally wiped the wet gasket on the mount, but that couldn't explain the water droplets on the lens side, only on the camera side.


BeatX wrote:
Yes, it happened to me also with XF 16/1.4 during vacations. Sea wave partially flashed me, while I was having my X-S10 + XF 16/1.4 with me. Salt water gets beyond sealing gasket, inside the mount.
Thankfully it's stops there, water didn't drop into the sensor.

So much of Fuji so called "weather sealing"..
Since then, I'm treating all my Fuji gear, as a toys - without WR, not a professional gear protected against water or moisture.


I thought the X-S10 wasn't weather sealed anyway? Not that that necessarily has any effect on whether or not water penetrates past the lens mount sealing gasket.

Do you have a recommendation for gear with great WR that are not "toys"? I've been reading some Nikkor Z teardown threads and their gaskets look significantly more robust than the Fuji X gaskets, but there is only so much that can be gleaned from online photos.



Feb 13, 2024 at 10:39 AM
jeffbuzz
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure


Metal surfaces will often show condensation more rapidly than plastics or glass. But given the temps you mention I agree that condensation seems less likely. Also sounds like your gaskets are in good shape based on your inspection.

Have you checked the mount screws on both the lens and camera faces? If those screws have loosened you might be getting gaps along that interface. Be sure to use proper JIS screwdrivers to tighten them.

Beyond that it would seem the moisture got in when you actually dismounted the lens.



Feb 13, 2024 at 11:48 AM
 


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js47
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure


jeffbuzz wrote:
Metal surfaces will often show condensation more rapidly than plastics or glass. But given the temps you mention I agree that condensation seems less likely. Also sounds like your gaskets are in good shape based on your inspection.

Have you checked the mount screws on both the lens and camera faces? If those screws have loosened you might be getting gaps along that interface. Be sure to use proper JIS screwdrivers to tighten them.

Beyond that it would seem the moisture got in when you actually dismounted the lens.


Well, I am shocked to report that the screws on the mount of my 90f2 were not in fact tight. They were however tight on both the body and 16f1.4.



Feb 14, 2024 at 06:29 AM
BeatX
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure


js47 wrote:
Do you have a recommendation for gear with great WR that are not "toys"? I've been reading some Nikkor Z teardown threads and their gaskets look significantly more robust than the Fuji X gaskets, but there is only so much that can be gleaned from online photos.


Sorry, for long time not answering.

I cannot recommend You exact camera model, because I haven't in my hands newest photo gear.
My adventure with semi pro photo gear ended around 2017 with Canon 5DIII
And if You ever hold in hand this DSLR, You will understand what I mean saying that Fuji cameras feels like toys compared to semi pro gear like Canon 5DIII or Nikon D850 (this one is also build like a tank)

I can't find full length promo movie of 5DIII, where You can see how every wheel, switch are constructed to protect against water or moisture.
But I'm sure that this short part I found, will give You impression how WR should rally be like:

https://youtu.be/TKlqO9uS2ZI?si=U7nU9O0iVpBWTkKU

And I can bet, that if Fujifilm would create such advanced WR construction to their top tier cameras, they will for sure shout about it in every promotional material.
Meanwhile all we can see, are claims without any backup.
And when I get my X-H2 into my hands, and I will open port doors I can't see ANY rubber gasket around.
Both card slot doors, and I/O ports doors looks and feels more-less the same, as in my previous X-S10
Only battery door has rubber gasket around.

As far as I'm aware, if only one place in camera is exposed to a hostile environment (like flash hot shoe), then camera is not fully sealed:

https://youtu.be/9W19rrVi6nM?si=gb3ouFgd98ESozG9

So,when do you connect the pieces of this puzzle, then You got the answer what is worth so called "WR" in Fujifilm gear.
It is just marketing gibberish, and nothing more.

Your and my case with sinking Xf 16/1.4 is best proof, to not trust in Fujifilm WR claims whatsoever.

Something to read during morning coffie:
X100V most definitely not weather sealed

If You want to be sure that Your precious and expensive photo gear is rally protected against hostile environment, take cameras that meet official requirements, such as the IPX standard (all Olympus pro gear), or take a closer look to Canon/Nikon semi pro offer.

Fujifilm X system is fun and made to be fun - if You threat it like hobby toys, then all it flaws become not so Irritating



Feb 16, 2024 at 09:53 AM
jeffbuzz
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure


BeatX wrote:
Sorry, for long time not answering.

I cannot recommend You exact camera model, because I haven't in my hands newest photo gear.
My adventure with semi pro photo gear ended around 2017 with Canon 5DIII
And if You ever hold in hand this DSLR, You will understand what I mean saying that Fuji cameras feels like toys compared to semi pro gear like Canon 5DIII or Nikon D850 (this one is also build like a tank)

I can't find full length promo movie of 5DIII, where You can see how every wheel, switch are constructed to protect against water or moisture.
But I'm sure that
...Show more

The previous post shows the OP's problem was due to loose mount screws.

In the video you linked, that youtuber's problem was caused by humidity and temperature induced condensation. Weather sealing has nothing to do with that.

My X-H2 has rubber gaskets around the card port and battery doors. The left side connector port doors themselves are the seals.




Feb 16, 2024 at 12:52 PM
TENOG
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure


BeatX, you wrote the following: Something to read during morning coffie:
X100V most definitely not weather sealed. This is a thread on DPReview, which can be found here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4657904

If you scroll down to the comment by Truman Prevatt, he gives a good explanation of why WR in Fuji equipment does not mean waterproof. It only seems to mean Weather Resistant, which is really meaningless. Only equipment with an IP rating can claim to have some water proofness and this is well known among serious outdoor photographers. I think if you want a waterproof camera for extreme conditions and you do your due diligence you would never expose a Fuji camera to a waterfall. You would use an OMD camera instead because that's what they are constructed for. Even their advertisements show the camera drenched in water or snow.

So don't bash Fuji cameras for not being waterproof. They are not supposed to be and if you buy one thinking that it is you've not done your due diligence.

As for Prevatt's explanation, here it is:

First of all Fuji WR rating is not water sealed. Fuji will not back a WR camera that gets water damage. Secondly on Fuji camera WR or not is going to withstand a long exposure to driving water - and water coming sideways has a lot of force.

No Fuji camera has an IP rating. That means no Fuji camera is tested to an IP rating nor will Fuji guarantee it to an IP rating. My iPhone 13 has an IP rating of 68. That means if I drop my iPhone in a puddle and then pick it up being submersed in water will not damage it. My Leica Q2 has an IP rating (52). Is it water proof - no but it is protected against the exposure that fired you X100V and more importantly to get an IP rating the device has to be tested against the requirements associated the the applicable rating. The only other cameras with IP ratings I know of are some of the GoPro cameras and security cameras and some of the really expensive cinema cameras. While the Nikon Z9 is claimed to be water sealed - Nikon does not guarantee an IP rating. So they are also playing the marketing game - not willing guarantee an IP standard. Sony does not guarantee an IP rating on its A9. The only camera company that test to and guarantees an IP rating is Olympus as the Olympus OM-1 is the only ILC on the market with an IP rating.

https://petapixel.com/2022/05/27/how-om-digital-torture-tests-its-weatherproof-cameras/

To have an IP rating - the devices have to be tested and certified by an independent lab. Nothing is truly waterproof. But an IP rating means it has been designed to a standard and verified to mean that standard. WR - is nothing more than an advertising ploy.

One of the best ways to protect electronics from water is to not have any openings. That is directly opposed to the desire of my Fuji fans to have dials, buttons, Pads and all sorts of ports. Every button or dial is a place for water to enter. Rubber seals won't keep driving spray of water out.

If one is going to use a camera in inclement weather then protect it from the weather. Occasional exposure to light drizzle WR should work but I'm not going to trust it. But any water coming with any force - and water coming sideways has a considerable amount of force - WR no more than a marketing ploy.



Feb 16, 2024 at 12:58 PM
BeatX
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure


jeffbuzz wrote:
The previous post shows the OP's problem was due to loose mount screws.


How about my XF 16/1.4 (?) Lens was in perfect condition, no loose mount screws whatsoever.

[jeffbuzz wrote:
The previous post shows the OP's problem was due to loose mount screws.


In this video, problems was caused by not covered hot shoe

jeffbuzz wrote:
My X-H2 has rubber gaskets around the card port and battery doors. The left side connector port doors themselves are the seals.


That is interesting.
Is that mean my copy of X-H2 is lacking weather seals?

Can You make simple photo with cards slot door open, so it can be clearly seen if there are rubber gaskets around?

Because I haven't find anywhere if this card slot doors are with rubber gasket or not

https://kolarivision.com/fujifilm-x-h2-teardown/



Feb 16, 2024 at 01:09 PM
jeffbuzz
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure


BeatX wrote:
How about my XF 16/1.4 (?) Lens was in perfect condition, no loose mount screws whatsoever.

[

In this video, problems was caused by not covered hot shoe

That is interesting.
Is that mean my copy of X-H2 is lacking weather seals?

Can You make simple photo with cards slot door open, so it can be clearly seen if there are rubber gaskets around?

Because I haven't find anywhere if this card slot doors are with rubber gasket or not

https://kolarivision.com/fujifilm-x-h2-teardown/


Soft gasket surrounds card slot door.







Feb 18, 2024 at 08:52 PM
BeatX
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure




jeffbuzz wrote:
Soft gasket surrounds card slot door.


Thanks for respond and photos
And You are right, indeed there is some sort of WR gasket around cards slot door.
I just didn't notice it.

So, seems like X-H2 has some sort of WR gasket around battery and cards slot doors.
Other I/O port doors are more-less like in X-S10 camera.



Feb 20, 2024 at 02:52 PM
jeffbuzz
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · WR Weather Sealing Gasket Failure


BeatX wrote:
Thanks for respond and photos
And You are right, indeed there is some sort of WR gasket around cards slot door.
I just didn't notice it.

So, seems like X-H2 has some sort of WR gasket around battery and cards slot doors.
Other I/O port doors are more-less like in X-S10 camera.


The port doors on the X-H2 are just like those on the IPX rated OM-1 which are just like most every other weather sealed body I've used in recent memory. The body side is hard and the door are soft. This makes senses because the camera is designed operated with those does open unlike the card slot doors which must be closed. The soft port doors are the seals.






OM-1 and X-H2s port doors




Feb 20, 2024 at 11:00 PM







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